Protest Stephen Harper's War
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Protest Stephen Harper's War
Wed, 2014-10-01 20:00
#1
Protest Stephen Harper's War
Wed, 2014-10-01 20:02
#2
This thread/topic is being started as a means for people to protest Stephen Harper's involvement in the upcoming conflict in the Middle East. Using the phrase Canada's involvement might not be appropriate since I do not believe that the majority of Canadians really understand the existing conflict well enough to justify sending combat forces into the area. Why would anyone enter a fight without understanding the reasons for the conflict?
I am very concerned that an air bombing campaign is going to lead to innocent civilians being hurt. Mistakes happen in any such campaign and the phrase "oops we goofed" is no condolence to the friends and family of causalities.
It is important to remember that the current PM was able to form a majority government with only 25% of the total population that could vote in 2011. Thus I am calling any possible conflict in the Middle East involving Canadians as "Stephen Harper's War". He might as well take full responsibility for the actions of any Canadian military forces.
The more I read about the conflict and the area, the more I realize just how complicated the issues really are and the rest of the world might not share the perspective of the Five Eye countries.
The PM has a majority government and I doubt if any of the back bench CPC MPs would ever speak out against him under fear of being thrown under the big blue bus. Thus if he wants to send in combat forces then there is little the opposition parties can do to stop him. Furthermore I suspect that The House of Commons (and Canadians) will not be told the complete story of why such actions are required. This situation could be another case of “weapons of mass deception” or something else. There is also the possibility that any debates in the House of Commons could be cut short.
However, Canadians can let the rest of the world know that they do not endorse such actions.
I do not deny that the terrorists that are part of ISIS/ISIL must be stopped but is an air bombing campaign the most effective way to do so?
Wed, 2014-10-01 20:04
#3
There are alternatives to bombing.
I believe that if the President of The USA (POTUS) does not try to drop as many bombs as possible then the Democrats risk getting wiped out by the Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections in November of 2014. POTUS is probably under a great deal of pressure to show that he is doing something.
The USA and some other countries are going to bomb anyway regardless of any involvement from Canada. Would a squadron of six CF-18 fighters make much of a difference? Canada has contributed to help stop so many conflicts in the last fifty years and one might think that this country has earned the right to sit one out.
Cutting off the funding for the terrorists might, in the long term, be more effective than bombing. Many of the terrorists might simply go home if they were not paid.
Sometimes accountants and lawyers can be more effective than bombs, especially if the black markets funding the terrorists could be shut down. However shutting down some of the terrorists revenue sources, such as seized oil facilities, might require boots on the ground.
Is there enough will within the Middle East to shutdown the various black markets?
Canada did not join the invasion of Iraq in 2003 but we did provide a certain amount of indirect support.
Could Canada not do something similar this time and put more resources into humanitarian aid and shutting down the sources of revenue to the terrorists? Could the Canadian government at least wait until the UN endorses military action before dropping any bombs?
Wed, 2014-10-01 20:08
#4
How Can People Help?
Users of this site can simply add a one-line post to this topic/thread reporting that they do not support Stephen Harper's War. Posting links to useful articles on the web might also be helpful.
Users of Twitter could send messages such as "Protest #StephenHarpersWar" or "I do not support #StephenHarpersWar" to as many people as possible including MPs.
Unfortunately it will be a numbers game but I believe that it will be important for Canadians to explain how they feel to the rest of the world.
If someone wants to copy and modify some of my writing then anything posted by me under this thread/topic can be considered to be released under a Creative Commons license (Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike v 4.0 License see creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/legalcode).
The original intent of this thread was to provide a place for users to protest Canada's involvement in any upcoming conflict in the Middle East.
There are some other useful threads/topics on Babble.
Harper Joins US in Iraq, With Support of Liberals
rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/harper-joins-us-iraq-support-liberals
Harper Joins US in Iraq, With Support of Liberals
US air strikes against Iraq
rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/us-air-strikes-against-iraq
War in Syria
rabble.ca/babble/international-news-and-politics/syria-10-assad-regime-crumbles-rebels-seek-transitional-allia
Wed, 2014-10-01 20:12
#5
Will there be a debate in the House of Commons? What about a vote?
What about postponing any possible debate/vote until after the UN approves military action (if it ever does)? I believe that Canada should consult with as many UN countries as possible before even starting a debate in the House of Commons regarding military action in the Middle East.
I do not see the necessity of rushing in when any possible conflict could last a very long time. Canada’s contribution would not be expected to be very large in terms of combat troops. Waiting for UN approval could make a huge difference.
What's the hurry Harper?
Considering the importance of the topic and the possible consequences, the opposition parties might wish to consider letting MPs vote with their conscience and permit free votes.
I suspect that members of the NDP would either abstain or vote against military action. If all of the Liberal Party MPs abstained then any future conflict could really be called "Stephen Harper's War".
How will the public react when the first images start to appear on the internet showing the bodies of children being dragged out of the rubble? How would MPs feel about the notion of having blood on their hands, even in the most indirect way?
Thu, 2014-10-02 09:23
#6
alan smithee
Stephen Harper probably spent his high school years stuffed inside a locker.
He certainly couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.
What is offensive to me is that the biggest war mongers are those who never served in the military,were probably emasculated for most of their lives and would shit their pants in a moment of physical confrontation.
Wimps and cowards trying to prove their manhood expending the lives of others.
Stephen Harper is a wimp and a coward.
Thu, 2014-10-02 09:53
#7
I suspect that members of the NDP would either abstain or vote against military action.
If that were the case, the current theatre would be about the matter not being submitted to a vote. The NDP should really thank the Harperites for helpinng them out with the charade of opposition. If a vote were held, and a few of the sought after 'clarifications' were laid down in the pre-vote debate, the NDP would have to counted one way or another, and I doubt there's any guesswork required as to how such a vote would pan out from the opposition benches.
Thu, 2014-10-02 10:26
#8
What exactly is the purpose of this thread, other than to diffuse the ongoing conversation about Canadian attitudes toward intervention in the region which is already under way here:
[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/harper-joins-us-iraq-support-l... joins U.S. in Iraq, with support from Liberals[/url]
and from a protest and activist standpoint, here:
[url=http://rabble.ca/babble/activism/sign-petition-keep-canada-out-iraq]Sign the petition: Keep Canada out of Iraq![/url].
Anyway, this conversation belongs either in Canadian Politics or Activism. And hopefully it will continue as a conversation (see other threads), not copyrighted blog posts.
Thu, 2014-10-02 16:39
#9
Catchfire
Thanks for opening this thread, PlanNineNorth!
I've moved this thread to Activism -- I think it's okay to leave it open since hopefully this will take up the conversation from a more anti-war social movement perspective -- but PlanNineNorth, while I appreciate your thoughtful posts here it's worth remembering that this is a discussion board, and we try to encourage interaction with other posters in a way that lets all voices into the conversation. Thanks!
Sat, 2014-10-04 05:15
#10
peterjcassidy
I agree this topic calls fo activism. I respectfully urge all,Babblers,socialist, progressives whomsoeversl to provide suport, critical support if need be, but supprrt, to Thomas Mulciar and his statement. on Uraq
-
WATCHED9:25 Tom Mulcair - Iraq combat mission // Thomas Mulcair - Mission de combat en Irak
- by Canada's New Democrats / Le NPD du Canada
- 11 hours ago
- 171 views
Tom Mulcair's speech at the House of Commons outlines the NDP's position on the combat mission Iraq. // Le discours de Thomas ...
- New
Sun, 2015-02-01 11:08
#11
peterjcassidy
Comrades, sistes and brothers , this is not a partisan plea but it is a plea repeat.
I agree this topic calls fo activism. I respectfully urge all,Babblers,socialist, progressives whomsoeversl to provide suport, critical support if need be, but supprrt, to Thomas Mulciar and his statement. on Uraq
- by Canada's New Democrats / Le NPD du Canada
- 11 hours ago
- 171 views
Tom Mulcair's speech at the House of Commons outlines the NDP's position on the combat mission Iraq. // Le discours de Thomas ...
- New