I thought I would attempt to kick off this topic, since the ONDP convention is only "days" away. Will there be serious challenges to the status quo and the leadership of the party? Will there be meaningfull changes in the way the party conducts itself? And finally, what will be come of the over 300 resolutions proposed by riding associations, regional councils and labour affiliates?
If we're talking about changing leaders, how do people feel about Catherine Fife? She's out-polled the party every time she's contested an election, and in a PC stronghold, so that suggests she has a real talent for connecting with people. What are her politics like?
She's seen as being on the right-wing of the party, and proudly volunteered to serve as Andrea Horwath's "Minister of Savings."
If we're talking about changing leaders, how do people feel about Catherine Fife? She's out-polled the party every time she's contested an election, and in a PC stronghold, so that suggests she has a real talent for connecting with people. What are her politics like?
?????? The NDP has held Kitchener-Waterloo before at least going back to the days of Max Saltsman. I'd hardly call it a "PC stronghold." It's a 3 way riding.
Cute story about Max Saltsman if anyone cares. Max was the owner of Galt Dry Cleaning Services and Eastern Coin Operated Enterprise. When he first ran federally in a 1964 byelection he was doorknocking with David Lewis and he comes to one house and a woman opens the door and she says to them "one minute" and she returns with her laundry.
Well since the next election is 4 years away, Andrea Horwath is entirely focused on retaining the support of the membership, since the "orange Tories" they've been courting won't be taking part. Whether the membership is convinced by her "left turn" of late remains to be seen.
I think Jagmeet Singh would be a good choice for leader.
Well, I guess interest among the rabble is low to non-existent. Perhaps it is just too early.
I personally don't think a leadership change is in the cards since the wagons are clearly being circled prior to the big event. On the question of overall interest in "change" from within, there is a lot of grumbling but no organized alternatives.
Seems like as good a place as any to post this...
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/03/olivia-chow-ontario-ndp-leader-p... Chow for ONDP leader? Poll suggests she could change game. (Huffpo)[/url]
After finishing third in the Toronto mayoral race that once seemed hers to win, Olivia Chow told reporters she needed to take some time for herself.
Soon enough, though, she will need to find a job.
And a new poll suggests she may be best suited for a gig that is currently taken: Ontario NDP leader.
According to Forum Research numbers released Monday, Chow moving to Ontario provincial politics would be a game-changer for a party that finished third in the June election. The vote was sparked after NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said she couldn't support the big-spending budget of Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne.
When no leaders were mentioned, 40 per cent of Ontario voters told the firm they would support the Liberals, while 35 per cent backed the Progressive Conservatives. Nineteen per cent expressed support for the NDP.
Those kinds of numbers would result in a slim Liberal majority of 56 seats, with the PCs improving by nine seats to 37 and the NDP dropping seven seats to 14.
But things change substantially when Chow, a former NDP MP, is put forward as the Ontario NDP leader. In that scenario, 28 per cent said they would support the NDP, 29 per cent would support the PCs and 33 per cent would support the Liberals.
In short, the numbers point to a three-way horserace with Chow as leader.
Olivia was polling 40% in mayor race, and look how that turned out.
Seems like as good a place as any to post this...
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/03/olivia-chow-ontario-ndp-leader-p... Chow for ONDP leader? Poll suggests she could change game. (Huffpo)[/url]
After finishing third in the Toronto mayoral race that once seemed hers to win, Olivia Chow told reporters she needed to take some time for herself.
Soon enough, though, she will need to find a job.
And a new poll suggests she may be best suited for a gig that is currently taken: Ontario NDP leader.
According to Forum Research numbers released Monday, Chow moving to Ontario provincial politics would be a game-changer for a party that finished third in the June election. The vote was sparked after NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said she couldn't support the big-spending budget of Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne.
When no leaders were mentioned, 40 per cent of Ontario voters told the firm they would support the Liberals, while 35 per cent backed the Progressive Conservatives. Nineteen per cent expressed support for the NDP.
Those kinds of numbers would result in a slim Liberal majority of 56 seats, with the PCs improving by nine seats to 37 and the NDP dropping seven seats to 14.
But things change substantially when Chow, a former NDP MP, is put forward as the Ontario NDP leader. In that scenario, 28 per cent said they would support the NDP, 29 per cent would support the PCs and 33 per cent would support the Liberals.
In short, the numbers point to a three-way horserace with Chow as leader.
**Snort**
The concern trolling from Liberal pundits is getting tedious. Who in the hell commissioned this poll anyway?
I should think that Chow and the NDP would start taking a hard look at the advice they are getting from Liberals about how best to divide their resources and start divisive internal battles after the near disaster of her decision to run for mayor, and the resulting loss not only of the race for mayor but Trinity-Spadina, a seat the NDP and Chow worked for years to rip from the grasp of Tony Ianno.
Considering that Chow as mayortalty candidate only polled 2% higher than the Horwatch led ONDP did in the GTA, its hard to see how Chow would have changed much in the outcome of the last provincial election. The GTA should be Chow's strength. There is no evidence that she would be superior at loosening the grip of the Liberals in suburbia, or even in the downtown core, since she didn't surpass Tory anywhere but in Parkdale-High Park and Trinity Spadina.
Tory beat her in the Beaches and on Danforth.
There may be room for a change of ONDP leader going into the next election, but a divisive leadership battle on the tail of the last provincial election does little to support the significant gains that the ONDP made outside of Toronto in the western and northern areas of the province, by pitting a Toronto "Progressive" against Horwath.
The Liberals seem really intent on keeping Chow of the one area where she might be useful to the NDP, that being federal politics where she can easily be competitive against Liberals in the downtown core during the next Federal election.
**Snort**
The concern trolling from Liberal pundits is getting tedious. Who in the hell commissioned this poll anyway?
You are right to snort - who commissioned it?? No one. Its just the President of Forum Research having delusions of grandeur that he can single handedly shape the political narrative by tossing hand grenade-like polls at anything that moves. IGNORE.
Since we have another convention before the next election, what if we elect an entirely new executive this time around, then give the leader two years to turn things around with the new team? If it doesn't appear to be working, then in 2016 we vote for a leadership convention and go into the 2018 election with a new leader.
That is a much more sensible approach than ousting the present leadership because they were less than stellar.
Since we have another convention before the next election, what if we elect an entirely new executive this time around, then give the leader two years to turn things around with the new team? If it doesn't appear to be working, then in 2016 we vote for a leadership convention and go into the 2018 election with a new leader.
Sounds like a worthwhile attempt, because it goes after the structure of the party rather than relying on a new face to wave a magic wand and make everything alright again.
However, no declared party president candidates, at this time ...
... declare then and set the agenda, even though you might not win.
what will be come of the over 300 resolutions proposed by riding associations, regional councils and labour affiliates?
Where can I get a resolution book before the convention?
And an agenda? Showing what topics will come up at what times?
I gather some of us have been emailed a 56 page document of "housekeeping" resolutions on the constitution, but no resolution book, priority lists for resolutions or an agenda so far. I gather GPRSC appeals will be heard Friday morning at 7 am!
As for running Roko, it is a definite possibility.
Here's a column today about Andrea Horwath and what she needs to receive in terms of support at the NDP convention.
It's do-or-die time for NDP Leader Andrea Horwath
It's by Christina Blizzard, so it's not exactly from a friendly source, but it still addresses the type of things Horwath will be facing in the media.
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/11/13/its-do-or-die-time-for-ndp-leader-a...
Apparently Mary Rita Holland who made a very strong showing as the NDP candidate in Kingston and the Islands and was just elected to Kingston city council is running for ONDP President. She sounds like a good choice.
Former PM Kim Campbell said, elections are not the time to discuss serious issues.
Dave Cooke, the former NDP education minister, says that is what doomed Andrea and the NDP. That elections are not the time to discuss policy
“If you’ve got a new approach the party should take, then in between elections you spell it out, you define what you mean and then you go across the province and you talk to part members and you seek out their input. But you can’t fundamentally change any political party in a five-week election campaign”
As Kim Campbell said
"Issues are much too complex to try and generate some kind of blueprint in the forty-seven days that's available in an election campaign.
Joy Taylor is back, and she can’t wait to see end of Horwath’s reign!
“I will never get over that deceit,” she said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/11/14/andrea_horwaths_job_at_sta...
It was reported in the news earlier today that Horwath and her supporters wanted a Leadership vote right away, but the delegates voted that proposal down and ensured that it would not be held till later this weekend.
It was reported in the news earlier today that Horwath and her supporters wanted a Leadership vote right away, but the delegates voted that proposal down and ensured that it would not be held till later this weekend.
The table of Horwath supporters I saw all voted for the change from Saturday morning to late Saturday afternoon. Good move, gives delegates more time to let off steam before that vote.
The vote to move the leadership vote was supported by 276 delegates and opposed by 252. One argument I heard in delay the vote was that if the vote had been held right after Andrea Horwath's speech, the delegates would not have time to discuss the pros and cons of her leadership.
Personally, I think that if Andrea Horwath does win the leadership vote, her support will be just above 50%. I don't think she will get at least 70% support.
The leadership vote will be held at 5:35 p.m. on Saturday.
Paul Ferreria's tweets are worth reading:
Cringeworthy to hear labour leaders being called "strongly principled" in their support for a $15 minimum wage, when the very first thing that went out the window when the OFL called for "strategic voting" was any principled stand on the minimum wage, or anything else for that matter.
"Strategic voting" is by its very defintion pragmatism for the sake of expedience.
Cringeworthy to hear labour leaders being called "strongly principled" in their support for a $15 minimum wage, when the very first thing that went out the window when the OFL called for "strategic voting" was any principled stand on the minimum wage, or anything else for that matter.
As opposed to the $15/hour movement in the US which is adamantly demanding a $15/hour minumum wage across the country regardless of who's in office. This movement has received some tactical support from some unions.
The leadership vote will be held at 5:35 p.m. on Saturday.
When can we expect an announcement of the results?
After the police have cleared the room of those members engaged in a brawl in front of the stage?
What?! I am trying to follow this online so don't know anything about any brawl you're referring to or how serious it is. Is anybody hurt?
I am kidding. Sorry. Lol. NDPrs brawl over an issue? I wish!
There'll be orange banners...foam orange "we're #1" thumbs...Bob Rae birdcage liners...
(Oh wait...I thought it said "whats in THE store?")
Bob Rae birdcage liners...
The NDP should appreciate the fact that Bob Rae brought them to power in Ontario, because it's not likely to happen again.
77% !!!
The Toronto Star always exagerated the size of the "Group of 34" (only 4 of whom were actual party members) .
It also has exagerated the size of the opposition to Andrea.
To those who keep trying to tell me that I should rejoin the ONDP to try to "change it from within", this is living proof that being involved in the ONDP is a total waste of time.
I've got much better things to do with my life.
That number sounds [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/premier-alison-redford-gets-77-su... familiar[/url].
A completely sound result. There is no need to have a vituperative leadership struggle right now, when there is no obvious contender, or popular figure to take the reins.
The ONDP will have another convention before the next election and between now and then perhaps someone else will appear who can do the job, or not.
77% !!!
The Toronto Star always exagerated the size of the "Group of 34" (only 4 of whom were actual party members) .
It also has exagerated the size of the opposition to Andrea.
Meanwhile the Toronto Star is reporting:
Breaking News: Man charged for allegedly impersonating soldier
That number sounds [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/premier-alison-redford-gets-77-su... familiar[/url].
Well, I'm sure that if Andrea gets caught using the ONDP jet for personal travel, her numbers will fall just like Redford's did.
Oddly, the whole "automatic leadership review" idea may have backfired, since it forces a review at a time when real opposition has not had time to develop around a possible successor, and thus gives the existing leadership the opportunity to entrench itself.
The party has made a mistake in approving Andrea's leadership. They need a new leader to be able to go toe-to-toe with Doug Ford.
If Olivia Chow couldn't make any dents in Doug Ford support, what hope does Andrea have?
Somewhere on the convention floor 91 year old Joy Taylor is fuming!
Meanwhile Focus Ontario has devoted their entire show to the Ontario NDP: Where do we go from here?
Interview with Andrea Horwath, Smokey Thomas, Marit Stiles and Brian Topp.
In the program Brian said the Group of 34 letter hurt the NDP, and he has to wonder why they would want to torpedo those 3 NDP Toronto ridings that went Liberal.
While Smokey says some of those in the letter are just used to opposing, that it is automatic for them.
You can see the entire program at link below
The party has made a mistake in approving Andrea's leadership. They need a new leader to be able to go toe-to-toe with Doug Ford.
If Olivia Chow couldn't make any dents in Doug Ford support, what hope does Andrea have?
That is what is so fascinating, in fact ONDP gross tallies from the GTA were only slightly less that Chow's for mayor. This suggests that the problem with the GTA seats were bigger than Andrea's leadership.
And no group of 34 wrote anything defamatory about Chow either, despite her MOR pitch, in fact I believe serveral supported her, come hell or high water.
Oddly, the whole "automatic leadership review" idea may have backfired, since it forces a review at a time when real opposition has not had time to develop around a possible successor, and thus gives the existing leadership the opportunity to entrench itself.
I agree with you. (Unusual to agree, huh?)
I predicted the same thing above in this thread - I predicted Horwath would survive her leadership review not because she is loved, but because there's no one really ready to challenge her. The party doesn't have a strong enough alternative.
This was predicted by Regg Cohn in the editorial that you posted in the same thread you made your prediction. This idea has been bandied about here for a while, even immediatly after the election.
I was talking about the mechanism of the automatic leadership review.
(self-delete. dupe post).
Bob Rae birdcage liners...
The NDP should appreciate the fact that Bob Rae brought them to power in Ontario, because it's not likely to happen again.
Rae led the ONDP when it brought ITSELF to power(actually, the hard work of the party's grassroots campaign workers brought the party to power in 1991-Rae himself had no idea they'd win that election when the campaign started)but Rae then destroyed the ONDP by governing exactly like a PC or Liberal premier would have done-and then bragged about his massive rightward swing on economic and spending policy as if it were an act of political genius.
The ONDP has spent almost twenty years now digging themselves out of the hole Rae dragged them into when he surrendered to Bay Street. It's Rae's fault and Rae's fault alone that the party lost over fifty seats and fell to third place in 1996.
To those who keep trying to tell me that I should rejoin the ONDP to try to "change it from within", this is living proof that being involved in the ONDP is a total waste of time.
I've got much better things to do with my life.
I have to agree! I gave up my membership too. How many more left the party?
I have to agree! I gave up my membership too. How many more left the party?
I imagine lots. Back when I was a little younger in the late 1970's and early 1980's Dipper conventions as I recall were typically about twice the size of the event this weekend.
I have to agree! I gave up my membership too. How many more left the party?
I imagine lots. Back when I was a little younger in the late 1970's and early 1980's Dipper conventions as I recall were typically about twice the size of the event this weekend.
I think that's indicative that membership in political parties across Canada has declined quite substantially over that time period.
