Wildrose caucus to meet to discuss merging with provincial Conservatives

69 posts / 0 new

Tue, 2014-12-16 00:31

robbie_dee

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/wildrose-caucus-to-meet-to-... and Mail[/url]

Quote:
Alberta’s opposition Wildrose caucus is expected to meet Tuesday to discuss merging with Premier Jim Prentice’s Progressive Conservatives, sources have told The Canadian Press.

If merger talks fail, there may be four or more defections to the Tory team, said one source.

The sources spoke on condition of anonymity.

Wow. If this happens it would have to be one of the weirder turn of events ever in any jurisdiction that abides by the British parliamentary system - the official opposition folds tent and joins the government? Where the provincial economy, I might add, is about to get totally whacked by the collapse of of its key commodity price. The government of the day doesn't control that commodity price obviously but it bears significant responsibility for failing to sufficiently encourage diversification of the provincial economy in its last 43 years in power. I guess the Wildrose party, being even deeper in the pocket of the oil industry, simply doesn't have any better answers?

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Tue, 2014-12-16 00:55

jjuares

robbie_dee wrote:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/wildrose-caucus-to-meet-to-... and Mail[/url]

Quote:
Alberta’s opposition Wildrose caucus is expected to meet Tuesday to discuss merging with Premier Jim Prentice’s Progressive Conservatives, sources have told The Canadian Press.

If merger talks fail, there may be four or more defections to the Tory team, said one source.

The sources spoke on condition of anonymity.

Wow. If this happens it would have to be one of the weirder turn of events ever in any jurisdiction that abides by the British parliamentary system - the official opposition folds tent and joins the government? Where the provincial economy, I might add, is about to get totally whacked by the collapse of of its key commodity price. The government of the day doesn't control that commodity price obviously but it bears significant responsibility for failing to sufficiently encourage diversification of the provincial economy in its last 43 years in power. I guess the Wildrose party, being even deeper in the pocket of the oil industry, simply doesn't have any better answers?

Yes, this very strange. Many of the prov. Liberal MLA's are going federal and their leader is very ineffective anyways. That will effectively leave the NDP as the only opposition party. I suspect under Rachel they will do well in Edmonton. They wont win provincially of course so that gives the Tories a clean run at winning the next election.

Tue, 2014-12-16 01:08

Aristotleded24

I do find this a surprise, particularly because Danielle Smith, whatever can be said about her political leanings, has probably been one of the most effective Opposition Leaders that Alberta has seen in some time.

Tue, 2014-12-16 09:09

voice of the damned

And if it's true that the impetus for this takeover is coming from Prentice, I am rather puzzled as to his motivations. Is he REALLY worried that those remaining 16 Wildrosers, clustered almost entirely in one region, are going to form the base for a possible challenge to Tory supremacy? When they can't even win one by-election? I guess maybe with the price of oil in the shitter for at least the next electoral cycle, he figures that Wildrose could be the go-to party for economic malconents, and that he'd better buy it off when he has the chance.

And I share Aristotle's surprise at Smith's allegedly being on-board. I mean, this is a woman who a couple of weeks ago was ensuring us that there would be no more defections, and now she's getting ready to lead a MASS defection? Here's a prediction(which I guess will be fulfilled or negated in a matter of hours)...

Though some of their MLAs will probably cross the floor, there will NOT be a mass defection from Wildrose. I think there are at least a few of their MLAs who are still "true believers", and would not be able to bring themselves to cross over for reasons of obvious political expediency.

Tue, 2014-12-16 09:21

KenS

Yes, it is very unlikely they would all agree to go.

Calling it a merger (attempt) is lipstick for the pig.

They will be leaving behind the burnt out husk of an organization. Still, it will be "owned" by those who stay behind.

They will rally around, put up a ridiculously brave front, appoint an interim, have a leadership race....

No matter how many members of the party executive defect or quit, the rump gets to keep the whole party organization. And as long as 6 of them stay in the rump, they get to keep all the Opposition resources. They will only lose resources on a pro rated basis for the defectors.

Tue, 2014-12-16 11:25

KenS

voice of the damned wrote:

... this is a woman who a couple of weeks ago was ensuring us that there would be no more defections, and now she's getting ready to lead a MASS defection?

Standard operating procedure for any dire situation a party is in- even less extreme than this. The Leader always says there is absolutely no way he will quit, right up to the moment she decides FOR SURE that she will not want to reconsider the decsion to quit. If she says even as much as "I am considering my options" that translates as "I am quiting, but not saying so until I give my people time to position themselves for staying on top of the heap."

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:08

KenS

This would say that my guess is dead wrong. It speaks of all the Wildrose MLAs going, then the Wildrose members and exec being invited to join the union [fold the tent].

But we shall see.

I think it very likely that the "leaked" document is the window dressing only- that the floorcrossers know it will not happen.

"We had honourable intentions. We tried." Etc.

I will stand by my prediction that there will be a rump of MLAs remaining as the WR.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:11

KenS

Journalist has a document that outlines a complete merger.

Kind of surprised this particular story was filed 12 hours ago. Less speculative than other stories that have got plenty of circulation.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:24

KenS

Or how about this?

All the MLAs do leave.

But then a few or more members of the Exec quickly decline the proffered hemlock cup, appoint buddies to fill the vacant positions on the Exec, and then invite Joe Anglin to rejoin 'the Caucus'.

Popcorn time.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:31

#10

voice of the damned

[b]I will stand by my prediction that there will be a rump of MLAs remaining as the WR.[/b]

Me too. I just can't see the whole party folding up like that.

The Sun doesn't load on these computers for some reason, and Rick Bell seems to be the only writer with access to that document. But if it is as reported, I don't think that bathetic apocalypse will be realized. That said, having allowed the rumours to go as far as they have, it would be a bit awkward for Wildrose to then announce it's staying in existence, and trying to function as a credible opposition party. Kinda like refusing to answer a question about whether or not you're planning to divorce your wife, and then the next day proclaiming your eternal love for her.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:35

#11

voice of the damned

[b]and then invite Joe Anglin to rejoin 'the Caucus'[/b]

I don't know enough about the internal party situation to know how popular Anglin would be with the execs. I gather he wasn't very popular with his old constituency association, hence his getting the boot. Plus, from what I've read, he's been doing all he can to stoke the recent rumours, which don't really make the party look good. So he seems to be burning a lot of bridges.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:51

#12

voice of the damned

Daveberta points out...

"In a scenario where nearly all the Wildrose MLAs crossed the floor to the PC Party, Raj Sherman‘s five MLA Liberal Caucus could regain its role as the Official Opposition. But the Liberals would only hold that title until MLAs Kent Hehr and Darshan Kang resigned to run in the October 2015 federal election. Upon their resignations, Rachel Notley‘s four MLA NDP Caucus could become the Official Opposition."

Can't make a small link. Full article at Daveberta.

Tue, 2014-12-16 12:53

#13

KenS

Anyone have other Wildrose scripts?

[Bonus points for plausability. But not required.]

Table dancing should be in there somewhere. The kind with clothes on. Boots encouraged.

Tue, 2014-12-16 13:31

#14

voice of the damned

Hey, you want boots? I'll give ya boots!

[url=http://www.edmontonplus.ca/edmonton/venues/boots-n-saddle]Yee haa![/url]

Tue, 2014-12-16 15:27

#15

bagkitty

If the Alberta legislature had wheels it would be a clown car.... every so often someone leaves the PC party to head the Liberals (waves to MacBeth and Sherman) or a group of them break free (waves to the WR), and then they crawl back into the PC party through the trunk. Waiting for next week when the Liberals decide to merge with the PCs. The Alberta party will then have coffee in nice comfortable suburban homes to "talk" to Albertans about whether they should join the party too. Leaving, of course, Notley and the NDP to be the opposition without benefit of the title...

And people wonder why voter turnout is dismal and everyone is cynical. Farce doesn't even come close to describing this province.

Tue, 2014-12-16 17:18

#16

bekayne

This is the most harebrained political scheme since Larry Gillanders

Tue, 2014-12-16 17:20

#17

bekayne

http://www.canada.com/news/alberta/Braid+Bizarre+merger+pitch+could+doom...

The struggle over the big Wildrose bank account could be fascinating; Yager and the party executive will mean to keep it, but the PCs would love to have it. That has to be one reason for all the tinkering with an official merger document.

Tue, 2014-12-16 20:08

#18

bagkitty

Cue the calliope music please:

CBConline wrote:

Seven Wildrose MLAs are planning to cross to Alberta’s governing Progressive Conservative party, CBC news has learned.

Two party sources said the seven are party leader Danielle Smith, House Leader Rob Anderson, and MLAs Jeff Wilson, Gary Bikman, Pat Stier, Blake Pederson and Jason Hale.

Tue, 2014-12-16 20:30

#19

sherpa-finn

CBC now reporting that 7 Wildrose MLAs will cross over to the Alberta PC party, including Danielle Smith and Rob Anderson.

That leaves a caucus of 7 WR MLAs left as the Official Opposition.

Bizarre.

ETA: cross-posted with bagkitty - sorry!

Tue, 2014-12-16 20:36

#20

bekayne

So Danielle Smith has managed to do an Emerson and a McKay at the same time

Tue, 2014-12-16 22:42

#21

Pierre C yr

Amazing and probably the death knell of Wildrose but will this move make the PC's even more right wing or allow the PC's to become more mainstream?

Tue, 2014-12-16 22:59

#22

bekayne

Pierre C yr wrote:

Amazing and probably the death knell of Wildrose but will this move make the PC's even more right wing or allow the PC's to become more mainstream?

or a third option: more cynical

Tue, 2014-12-16 23:23

#23

JKR

I think this will move the PC's to the right.

This realignment of Alberta politics is a predictable outcome of FPTP politics. A lot of powerful right-wing people in Alberta were tired of seeing Wildrose marginalize right wing votes via vote-splitting so they have chosen to merge Alberta's two right-wing parties. Unlike the left, the right knows how to play the game of FPTP. They make sure their favorite parties are not underrepresented in the game of FPTP. With this merger, right-wing parties will continue to be ovverrepresented in Alberta, especially if the NDP, Liberals, Greens, and Alberta Party continue to split the centre-left vote in Alberta.

This situation in Alberta is similar to the one at the federal level that saw the end of the Reform Party. When vote-splitting on the right weakens the interests of powerful groups, right-wing parties are quickly jettisoned and rearranged in order to maximize the power of their backers.

Wed, 2014-12-17 01:45

#24

jjuares

JKR wrote:

I think this will move the PC's to the right.

This realignment of Alberta politics is a predictable outcome of FPTP politics. A lot of powerful right-wing people in Alberta were tired of seeing Wildrose marginalize right wing votes via vote-splitting so they have chosen to merge Alberta's two right-wing parties. Unlike the left, the right knows how to play the game of FPTP. They make sure their favorite parties are not underrepresented in the game of FPTP. With this merger, right-wing parties will continue to be ovverrepresented in Alberta, especially if the NDP, Liberals, Greens, and Alberta Party continue to split the centre-left vote in Alberta.

This situation in Alberta is similar to the one at the federal level that saw the end of the Reform Party. When vote-splitting on the right weakens the interests of powerful groups, right-wing parties are quickly jettisoned and rearranged in order to maximize the power of their backers.

The Liberals have their own problems right now. The Greens and the Alberta Party are having trouble getting lift off and our FPTP system makes it doubly difficult for them. It's a clear field perhaps for the NDP but they will have great difficulty making any serious headway.

Wed, 2014-12-17 03:13

#25

Aristotleded24

I'm confused. I thought the whole purpose behind voting for Allison Redford's PCs in 2012 was to prevent Danielle Smith and her Wildrose Party from forming the government?

Thu, 2021-10-07 20:15

#26

PrairieDemocrat15

Wed, 2014-12-17 09:53

#27

terrytowel

Danielle and the other six she is taking with her to the PC are only interested in one thing,

Power.

This is the first time the PC have had an effective opposition. Sure Wildrose is down. But like the NDP can call trhemselves the consceince of Parliment, Wildrose should have called themselves the opposition in Alberta parliment.

Though I don't agree at all with her politics. Disappointed in Danielle, thought she had principles.

Now that the leaders job is open, maybe Rob Anders will run for it.

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:02

#28

KenS

Rob Anders.

Way cool !

That should inspire some more script writing !

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:16

#29

voice of the damned

KenS wrote:

Rob Anders.

Way cool !

Yeah, first tragedy, then farce, or however Marx misremembered Hegel.

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:40

#30

voice of the damned

And, grabbing the pen and cocktail napkin, here's a plotline I don't think I've seen too much attention to...

Okay, so a number of Wildrosers defect to the Tories and sit as government MLAs. But, the Wildrose continues to exist as a party, with some representation in the Legislature.

Wildrose runs candidates in the next election, including against the defectors now sitting as Tories. The Wildrosers in those ridings, however, really are angry about the defections(as the execs are currently claiming), and proceed to throw the defectors(possibly including Ministers Smith and Anderson) out on their asses.

Of course, the new crop of Wildrosers are even more alienated and more anti-Tory than the turncoats they threw out, so Prentice ends up with an even more vitriolic opposition than he had before, and ends up looking really stupid.

Not saying that's gonna happen, mind you. But I'd be interested to know if the grassroot Wildrosers really are as ticked off about this merger as the execs say they are, or if that's just all hype.

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:48

#31

KenS

Obscure tangent. But Rob will understand.

Opening of 18th Brumaire:

Karl Marx wrote:

Hegel remarks somewhere that all great, world-historical facts and personages occur, as it were, twice. He has forgotten to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."

I only remembered that Marx said it, not the full quote and connection to Hegel. And I was wondering about you saying "Marx misremembered Hegel".

Is that because Hegel himself said it exactly that way- first as tragedy and then as farce- but Marx seems to have forgotten that he also got that from Hegel?

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:53

#32

KenS

voice of the damned wrote:

Of course, the new crop of Wildrosers are even more alienated and more anti-Tory than the turncoats they threw out, so Prentice ends up with an even more vitriolic opposition than he had before, and ends up looking really stupid.

I'm not so sure that this would harm Prentice.

Getting really post-modernist here: that the enhanced theatre of farce makes people thankful they have Prentice.

But we could add some more twists to the script.

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:57

#33

Unionist

KenS wrote:

Is that because Hegel himself said it exactly that way- first as tragedy and then as farce- but Marx seems to have forgotten that he also got that from Hegel?

No. It was just VOTD misremembering Marx improving on Hegel.

Wed, 2014-12-17 11:00

#34

KenS

How ticked off the grassroots members will not in itself lead to some of those turncoats being unseated by successful challenges in the next election.

But presumably they got elected in fertile Wildrose territory. The rump party does not have to be credible to the population at large, the media, etc. If they hang together sufficiently, and there are enough of those angry grassroots, they have themselves some solid local campaigns. They dont even need much money to pull it off.

Wed, 2014-12-17 11:14

#35

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

KenS wrote:

Is that because Hegel himself said it exactly that way- first as tragedy and then as farce- but Marx seems to have forgotten that he also got that from Hegel?

No. It was just VOTD misremembering Marx improving on Hegel.

My undestading was that no one has been able to find the quote anywhere in Hegel's writings, hence I said that Marx misremembered Hegel.

And Ken..

Marx attributes the line to Hegel, but does not name the piece of writing. I believe it's the opening line of The 18th Brumaire Of Louis Napoleon.

EDIT:

Sorry, I just remembered now, after I saw your full post. Marx says that Hegel says that great events happen twice. That is the line for which, I believe, no one has found the original. Marx himself adds the bit about tragedy and farce.

Wed, 2014-12-17 11:17

#36

KenS

Rob.

Come onnn... Rob !

Wed, 2014-12-17 11:20

#37

KenS

If second time is tragedy, what about SIX times ?!

For it's next stop the fracking waste water saga returns to the beginning: AIS has applied once more for discharge from its facility into the nearby Debert sewage treatment plant.

Apologies for the riffing liberties... jump across the country, entirely different issue...

Wed, 2014-12-17 11:50

#38

robbie_dee

[url=http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/lakritz-rachel-notley-grab-t... for Rachel Notley to grab the brass ring? (Calgary Herald)[/url]

Quote:

Guess who emerges from all this PC/Wildrose merger/betrayal mess as looking better than ever? NDP Leader Rachel Notley.

The provincial NDP, with the highly principled Notley as leader, has an incredible opportunity now to shine; they should take advantage of it to build momentum and strengthen their cachet for the 2016 election. And with the steady stream of women political leaders self-combusting in dismaying circumstances — think Newfoundland and Labrador’s Kathy Dunderdale, Alberta’s Alison Redford and now Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith — Rachel Notley is our last hope. I liked Redford and I was sorry to see her go. And I think Notley has tremendous potential to turn her party into a much greater force than it has been in years. She needs to seize this absolutely opportune moment.

I find it odd that those who complain democracy will be dealt a severe blow with the implosion of the Wildrose, seem to forget that democracy has been disabled here for years because there hasn’t been a strong left-wing party. [b]Alberta never needed more right-wing parties; it needed strength on the left to keep democracy truly vibrant.[/b]

Wed, 2014-12-17 12:05

#39

voice of the damned

^ As Daveberta said(see the previous page), if fewer than five Wildrosers stay in the party, and the Liberals(as scheduled) lose two of their members to federal nominations, that puts the NDP as the official opposition.

Wed, 2014-12-17 12:21

#40

Hurtin Albertan

What a strange turn of events. Can't say I saw this one coming.

I am at a loss for words.

Wed, 2014-12-17 12:48

#41

voice of the damned

Hurtin Albertan wrote:

What a strange turn of events. Can't say I saw this one coming.

Yeah, one for the books, definitely.

Colby Cosh, trying to make some sense of it all, quotes Smith's speech to the party faithful a few months back...

[b]I am asking you to start being kinder to each other and make Wildrose events a fun place to be. Enjoy each other. Do things together. Have a monthly beer and wings night. Hold a Christmas social. Do a Christmas cookie exchange. Hold a potluck. Sing Christmas carols door to door. Make your Wildrose board members your friends and plan to do your board business around doing something fun before or after your monthly board meetings. Appoint one of your board members to be the official Fun Police. It is their job to ensure that Wildrosers want to come out and want to bring their friends out too. TELL YOUR CHILI STORY.[/b]

I think that should go verbatim in the script.

(Cosh is a right-winger, and anti-union, so I won't post a direct link. His article is called Behind The Uproar In Alberta. It's not bad, as far as a cultural-political analysis goes.)

Wed, 2014-12-17 13:19

#42

KenS

any signs of Rob Anders yet ?

please Santa

Wed, 2014-12-17 13:30

#43

Slumberjack

With the conservative legacy in Alberta, voters seem to have turned tragedy and farce into a long running syndication.

Wed, 2014-12-17 14:07

#44

terrytowel

Rob Anders represents the far, far, far right of the Conservative Party.

He is a darling for this Tea-Party (formerly Reform) movement that still exsists in Alberta.

He would be the perfect leader for Wildrose.

Problem is he is LAZY.

Not sure he can do the work that is needed to be party leader.

Wed, 2014-12-17 15:05

#45

bekayne

Rob Anders would lead to a Lougheed style majority, where 2 seats could make you Official Opposition

Wed, 2014-12-17 16:13

#46

KenS

humourless bunch

Wed, 2014-12-17 16:23

#47

Unionist

KenS wrote:

humourless bunch

"Rob Anders". An anagram for "reborn sad". A metaphor for the Alberta government. Or perhaps "Snored Bar".

Oh wait!!! Got it!!!!!

[size=35]ROSE BRAND[/size]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 2014-12-17 17:47

#48

Hurtin Albertan

News conference in 15 minutes.

I must say, the sheer entertainment value of Alberta politics, coupled with the near certainty of election results at the provincial level, sure drive home the Alberta Advantage.

It truly is a good day to be Albertan.

Wed, 2014-12-17 18:17

#49

Hurtin Albertan

Can't even start a news conference on time.

How do these people keep winning elections?

Wed, 2014-12-17 18:43

#50

Hurtin Albertan

"Whelp, Diamond Jim is basically doing all the stuff we wanted to do, so we figured why not?"

No cabinet shuffle as of yet, Smith for sure has crossed the floor along with 8 other WR MLA's.

"Not a merger of two parties, but a reunification of Conservatives".

"Big tent party, common values, difficult financial times, future prosperity, we need Conservatives working together to find solutions."

Sounds like Smith wants the WR party to vote on rejoining the PC's, details to follow at some random time I guess.

A few pointed questions about floor crossings, byelection results, etc etc.

Wed, 2014-12-17 18:58

#51

KenS

Hurtin Albertan wrote:

Sounds like Smith wants the WR party to vote on rejoining the PC's, details to follow at some random time I guess.

Somebody would have to explain the benefit this posturing has for her. I guess its like explaining a joke.

Maybe thats it. She is telling a joke, and I'm too dense.

Because there isnt a snowballs chance in hell she would get her wish. Overcome by whatever, the WR Exec is going to say, "I guess you are right Danielle, hand me my Death Warrant and I'll sign it."