Malaysian plane crash

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Wed, 2014-12-17 08:37

Webgear

Where is the proof?

It is just some person talking on a YouTube video and it is obvious he is reading a script. He can't even explain what unit he was in without pausing, that's a pretty good indicator that he doesn't understand what he is talking about or who he is.

Look at his eyes, they keep moving which is another indicator that he has to think about what he is going to say. As a Sergeant he can't explain the simplest military designation system of his unit? I am calling bull shit.

The so called "soldier", is never seen holding his military ID, oblivious another fake document made by the Russian Intelligence Services to confuse the issue and people like you.

Typically most soldiers that have deserted don't carry their military ID with them. Typically it is a bad idea to have proof that you are a deserter when caught by the local police. I am only going to assume that local Ukraine civilian and military police are looking for deserters.

Things have to be pretty bad in Russian Intelligence Services if they cant find a decent actor to play a Ukraine solider.

I have to admit, this is a pretty good piece of propaganda video for entertainment value. I rate it amongst the best, like Saigon Sally and others.

I thought you said that a SU-25 shot down MH-17, please stick to a single theory. I can't keep up with all your wing-nut theories.

I suppose you should combine the two theories, like the BUK shot down the MH-17 and as the plane was falling to the ground the Su-25(s) (because you state there were at lest two of them in earlier posts) fire at the wreckage with their cannons at 3000m.

Ohh don't forget as the plane was falling for 30,000 feet some passenger had enough time to put on his oxygen mask because that was all he was thinking about while falling to his death.

Just to top off this rant, here is about bonus for you.

The other day, I saw a video of a man on YouTube, he had a bible in his hand and called himself Jesus. I guess by your definition of proof, god's only child is now walking amongst us again and just in time for his 2000 birthday.

Wed, 2014-12-17 10:20

#553

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

So now your back to a BUK did it just after posting "proof' an aircraft probably did it right above it...?

I'm willing to bet, no matter what side they were on, any BUK crewmen that was on the crew that shot down that airliner is more then likly 6 feet under right now for ovious reasons.

Wed, 2014-12-17 16:48

#554

ikosmos

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
So now your back to a BUK did it just after posting "proof' an aircraft probably did it right above it...?

That's a "No". However, it's useful to expose the fraudulent claims of the regime, and their sponsors in Washington, about the resistance using a BUK to shoot down the aircraft. If it can be shown that the alleged BUK used by the armed forces of the DPR was under the control of the Kievan junta, then it's pretty well a slam-dunk as far as who was really responsible.

After all, everyone admits that a) the resistance had no aircraft, and b) any aircraft OTHER than those of the Ukrainian regime would have been spotted, radar signature, etc., and been noisily drawn attention to by Western media.

Try to keep up, hmm? Or go play in the sandbox with your Tonka Toys and G. I. Joe.

[/quote]

Wed, 2014-12-17 23:01

#555

ikosmos

Wow, the interview is really starting to get some traction.

See transcript of conversation with Ukrainian soldier

Quote:
The shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 came into greater focus with the December 15 YouTube video featuring a former crew member of BUK self-propelled fire installation, number 312 (BUK 312). Ukraine’s government and others maintained that the BUK 312 unit shot down MH17 while manned by a resistance crew. The Obama administration championed that narrative holding both the resistance and Russia responsible for the 298 deaths on July 17. The interview was conducted by investigative journalist Anatoly Sharij and translated by Marina Stewart (see full test in English at end of this article). (Image: BUK 312 in Kiev junta terrotiry – Anatoly Sharij)

The 23-year-old former BUK 312 crewmember revealed that the missile unit was in fact manned by the Ukraine military. He outlines the missile system’s location and how it operated. The former sergeant also offered analysis and research indicating the very low probability that the 312 crew shot down MH17.

Can you say, "I believe a very large can of whup ass has just been cracked open" ?

Thu, 2014-12-18 02:30

#556

NDPP

Putin Shot Down A Plane! Putin Shot Down a...What? Never Mind. - by David Swanson

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/putin-shot-plane-putin-shot-never...

"...Yet the world outside of the US media is full of evidence suggesting that Russia did not do it.

The silence is deafening. Dutch plans to produce a dubious report by next summer are being outpaced by steps toward war.

HERE'S A PETITION that concerned people are signing: Call For Independent Inquiry of the Airplane Crash in Ukraine and its Catastrophic Aftermath..."

Thu, 2014-12-18 08:21

#557

Webgear

ikosmos

It is nice to see you editing past posts (#550 for example) as your theory changes and when confronted with facts and realistic assessments. I can completely understand the difficultly you must have for keeping up with the official propaganda news from random YouTube videos.

I admit, I am confused of what your objective of this thread is. You have posted so many different versions of what happen to MH-17 that I have had to start a link analysis chart to keep track. At this point I am waiting for you to say that there was never no MH-17 and no aircraft ever got shot down.

It is amazing how you completely bi-pass answering questions like the radar data of the one, two or three SU-25s (depending on what post you used) that suddenly appeared on the Russian Radar fired missiles and cannon fire and then vanished. Damn those Ukraine pilots have good stealth aircraft.

Thu, 2014-12-18 09:19

#558

Slumberjack

In light of what appears to suggest that an officially sanctioned code of omerta has been put into practice around whatever information the Dutch investigation has in its possession, all of the speculation, theory, and counter theory is quite understandable. Within the overall debate, adherence to one competing version or another tends mirror the world views of the protagonists involved, which in turn is informed by whatever version of propaganda one willingly subscribe to, as we can see for ourselves.

Thu, 2014-12-18 09:43

#559

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
So now your back to a BUK did it just after posting "proof' an aircraft probably did it right above it...?

That's a "No".

I mean really, your losing it. Have a nice life in la la land.

Thu, 2014-12-18 13:16

#560

ikosmos

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

ikosmos wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
So now your back to a BUK did it just after posting "proof' an aircraft probably did it right above it...?

That's a "No".

I mean really, your losing it. Have a nice life in la la land.

OK, I will type really slowly so you understand? The BUK system was under junta control; one of the soldiers assigned to the very unit that the junta controlled gave a detailed report about it. That's what I linked to.

Now, either the aircraft was shot down by a BUK system or by aircraft. It's not clear HOW MANY aircraft, but this issue is in fact a means to distract from the truth of the matter. Either BUK or aircraft. A child could understand this.

So? It's already been made abundantly clear: if the junta shot down the aircraft, they could have used BUK or aircraft. If the resistance shot down the aircraft, it would have had to be BUK. There are no other scenarios.

Still following me, genius?

So, it wasn't the resistance using the BUK system. What does that leave?

IS THIS REALLY THAT HARD TO FOLLOW OR ARE YOU JUST PRETENDING NOT TO UNDERSTAND?

Thu, 2014-12-18 13:52

#561

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I'm saying I disagree it was the Ukrainians at all... as I intially said at the start of all this it was most likly your guys, the sepratists, that did it with a BUK they were operating in a radar degraded mode (using just the launcher's radar). They mistook MH-17 for another high flying Ukrainian transport aircraft like the one they had shot down a few days before at 21,000 feet.

You have you theory, I have mine. Let's see what the final report says. Have a nice day.

Thu, 2014-12-18 17:26

#562

Webgear

ikosmos wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

ikosmos wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
So now your back to a BUK did it just after posting "proof' an aircraft probably did it right above it...?

That's a "No".

I mean really, your losing it. Have a nice life in la la land.

OK, I will type really slowly so you understand? The BUK system was under junta control; one of the soldiers assigned to the very unit that the junta controlled gave a detailed report about it. That's what I linked to.

Now, either the aircraft was shot down by a BUK system or by aircraft. It's not clear HOW MANY aircraft, but this issue is in fact a means to distract from the truth of the matter. Either BUK or aircraft. A child could understand this.

So? It's already been made abundantly clear: if the junta shot down the aircraft, they could have used BUK or aircraft. If the resistance shot down the aircraft, it would have had to be BUK. There are no other scenarios.

Still following me, genius?

So, it wasn't the resistance using the BUK system. What does that leave?

IS THIS REALLY THAT HARD TO FOLLOW OR ARE YOU JUST PRETENDING NOT TO UNDERSTAND?

You are funny, up until last summer you didn't even know what a BUK or SU-25 and now your an expert on them.

Thu, 2014-12-18 17:56

#563

Webgear

[quote=ikosmos

So, it wasn't the resistance using the BUK system. What does that leave?

[/quote]

Russian Stealth SU-25s could crossed the border and shot down the MH-17, would explain why they only they appeared on radar for 10 seconds.

Thu, 2014-12-18 18:07

#564

iyraste1313

from Eric Zeusse, globalresearch.ca confirming that it was the Ukraine military responsible for the shoot down...

have not yet had opportunity to study the report, but if true, I plan to launch a legal action vs. the CBC for their part in the false flag operation, trying to pin the attack on Putin or 'his'!!! rebels!

Of course don't expect anything from the local BC courts, totally corrupted by their blind obedience to Canadian institutional authority, as clearly is the case with so many so called Canadian progressives!??

But I do have legal standing for my work in the Peoples Republic of Donetsk, and will do whatever I have to to start a lawsuit..

Thanks to ikosmos for your ongoing reports!

Thu, 2014-12-18 18:48

#565

sherpa-finn

I have been playing in the domestic politics sandbox at Babble for the past couple of weeks, so am just getting caught up on this thread.

I see that lots of noise was being made about exclusion of Malaysian authorities from the crash investigation team, and how this brought the whole process into question. But no one seems to have noted the following:

"It was reported that the notification of the acceptance of Malaysia as a full and equal member of the Joint Investigation Team was conveyed by the Dutch National Public Prosecutor's Office through its letter dated Nov 28. On Dec 4, Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail and Khalid represented Malaysia in The Hague at the first coordination meeting of the investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17."

http://www.nst.com.my/node/62687

So now we can finally have full confidence in the investiigation, right?! And all just chill out until teh team presents its report.

Cue for shrill voices offstage:

- "But the others will have already doctored the evidence!"

- "But the Malaysian investigator was trained in the US!"

- But ,,,, but ....but!

Thu, 2014-12-18 19:04

#566

ikosmos

Webgear wrote:
Russian Stealth SU-25s could crossed the border and shot down the MH-17, would explain why they only they appeared on radar for 10 seconds.

Were this true, Ukrainian and NATO surveillance would have, long ago, made this public, especially aften the Russian held their own press conference and presented their evidence.

Nobody believes the fraudulent claims of the NATO alliance or its vassals.

The whole world knows about the despicable lies that were used to justify the invasion of Iraq, for example. The false flag of chemical weapons in Syria, meant to justify more NATO atrocities in the Middle East, also failed miserably as Putin extricated Obama's chestnuts from the fire. On and on it goes.

Thu, 2014-12-18 19:16

#567

ikosmos

Ukraine, one of the parties accused of shooting down the plane, and a member of the team that did not include Malaysia, has a veto over publicizing the results of the investigating committee.

Perhaps you might like to address that.

sherpa-finn: "But, but, but, ..."

Thu, 2014-12-18 19:21

#568

sherpa-finn

Sherpa-finn wrote: Cue for shrill voices offstage:

- "But the others will have already doctored the evidence!"

- "But the Malaysian investigator was trained in the US!"

- But ,,,, but ....but!

Dammit. I forgot one more standard response before ikosmos actually did respond. It would have gone like this:

- "But let me quickly change the subject to another quite different question without speaking to the issue raised."

Its called the art of misdirection: probably the most important skill of the amateur conjurer and card sharp.

You are entertaining, ikosmos, I grant you that. I could have sworn the pea was under the cup in the middle.

Thu, 2014-12-18 19:31

#569

Webgear

Ikosmos doesn't care about evidence, he has stated this already. The Ukrainians/NATO has committed the crime and that is all that matter to him. Everything else is just lies against Russia.

Thu, 2014-12-18 23:25

#570

ikosmos

The dead silence that will follow in this thread, if and when stronger evidence comes out, will be highly entertaining.

Have a look at the 15 threads on the 2008 Georgian-Ossetian War, and the dead silence from "the usual suspects" once it became clear that

a) the Georgian people rejected Saaskashvili;

b) the new President elect specifically blamed him for starting the war, and said so publicly;

c) the government issued an arrest warrant for Saakashvili who, like the typical vassal, was living the life of an ex-terrorist in (where else?) the good old USA, writing fluff pieces for the WSJ and the NYT.

That war was the prelude, the practice as it were, for the current one.

The lidless eye of Sauron - I mean Uncle Sam - never rests.

Fri, 2014-12-19 23:37

#571

sherpa-finn

As I said above, ikosmos's repeated attempts at misdirection are hugely entertaining, if starting to get a little tiresome.

So now we are pointed back to the Georgian-Russian conflict, the net result of which is the continued Russian occupation of two large slices of Georgian territory known as South Ossetia and Abkhazia. (Recognized by Russia, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Nauru as independent republics. And considered by the rest of the world "Occupied Territories" similar to Israeli-occupied Palestine.)

And if this sounds a little familiar, - the parallels to the more recent Russian occupation of Crimea is neither accidental or co-incidental. (If Putin and colleagues are consistent on anything, it is on Russia's imperial ambitions vis a vis its neighbours.)

Which I suppose gets us back to the theme of this thread, - the shooting down of the Malaysian Airlines byyet another band of hapless Russian backed rebels....

Sat, 2014-12-20 17:41

#572

NDPP

Why the Secrecy on the MH17 Investigation - by James O'Neill

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/19/why-the-secrecy-on-the-mh17-inves...

"Why have the mainstream media kept up a barrage of misinformation up to and including the recent G20 debacle, when they knew, or ought to know, that the investigation is a sham?

It is also difficult to see how the continued demonization of Russia and Mr Putin for manifestly geopolitical reasons (and the probable reasons for the shootdown in the first place) represent any form of justice for the families of the 298 victims..."

Sun, 2014-12-21 15:03

#573

swallow

I am fairly sure that no "dead silence" will fall. But accusations of "dead silence" from the pro-Putin media will deafen us.

Tue, 2014-12-23 08:41

#574

NDPP

Much the same from the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk

http://youtu.be/NrfKZUttEwE

"Apparently it was an accident. Nobody had any intent to take it down. Gave a shot accidentally - wanted to shoot down the one plane, hit another one..."

More here:

Russia To Probe Media Reports that Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/216871-ukraine-military-mh17-report/

"Russia's Investigative Committee is investigating a Russian newspaper report alleging that a Ukrainian military jet shot down Malaysian Airlines Passenger Plane MH17 over the rebel-held eastern part of the country last summer..."

Tue, 2014-12-23 10:04

#575

NDPP

And Saker version with comments:

New Testimony About the Shooting Down of MH17 (and vid)

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/12/new-testimony-about-shooting-do...

"...I notice that there are several mutually contradictory versions circulating out there...What is absolutely certain is that the US, UK, Holland and pretty much all the parties involved are busy covering up what happened and trying to delay any possible, relevant findings as much as possible.

The only country which is still demanding an independent investigation is Russia, which by itself tells me all I need to know about 'who done it.'

Tue, 2014-12-23 13:12

#576

ikosmos

swallow wrote:
I am fairly sure that no "dead silence" will fall. But accusations of "dead silence" from the pro-Putin media will deafen us.

Cue Jeopardy music ...

Tue, 2014-12-23 13:16

#577

Webgear

ikosmos wrote:

We now have THE NAME of the Ukrainian pilot who shot down the civilian airliner.

Meet The Pilot Who Shot Down Malaysian Boeing MH-17 -Vladislav Voloshin: "The Plane Was In the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time"

Quote:
- Yes. Knowing this pilot a little bit... (quite possibly, when the other two airplanes were shot down in front of him), he just had a frightened reaction, inadequate. Could out of fright or in revenge launch the missiles into a Boeing. Maybe he took it for some other combat aircraft....

What else do you remember this day? What did the pilot say?

- He said a phrase, when he was lead out of the airplane: "It was not the right plane." And in the evening there was a phrase to a question from one pilot to him, to Voloshin: "What's up with the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Actual interview (in Russian)
"But, but, but ....!!"

Why don't you try and stick with a single theory, now that SU-25 shot down the MH-17. Less than a week ago you said the BUK shoot down MH-17 (This included another Russian video).

I am assuming the next video posted by you will have both the SU-25 and BUK Gunner stating they shot down the MH-17 in a combined coordinated attack.

Tue, 2014-12-23 13:30

#578

ikosmos

Webgear wrote:
Less than a week ago you said the BUK shoot down MH-17 (This included another Russian video).

Less than a week ago I posted links purporting to claim that the BUK system allegedly used by the Novorossiyans was actually in the control of the Kiev regime. This, I argued, showed that the Novorossiyans could not have shot the plane down.

There is nothing here about insisting this was the means used to shoot the plane down. More recent evidence seems to show that it was aircraft and the name of pilot is now known (Vladislav Voloshin).

If you then twist things and claim that my argument was something else, that I claimed the links showed that the BUK system was actually used to shoot down the plane, etc., then you are simply misrepresenting my argument. Read more carefully.

Tue, 2014-12-23 13:40

#579

Webgear

ikosmos wrote:

Webgear wrote:
Less than a week ago you said the BUK shoot down MH-17 (This included another Russian video).

Less than a week ago I posted links purporting to claim that the BUK system allegedly used by the Novorossiyans was actually in the control of the Kiev regime. This, I argued, showed that the Novorossiyans could not have shot the plane down.

There is nothing here about insisting this was the means used to shoot the plane down. More recent evidence seems to show that it was aircraft and the name of pilot is now known (Vladislav Voloshin).

If you then twist things and claim that my argument was something else, that I claimed the links showed that the BUK system was actually used to shoot down the plane, etc., then you are simply misrepresenting my argument. Read more carefully.

Ikosmos, if you had any credibility on this subject it disappeared many posts ago even before your random edits of your posts to change the facts.

You have claimed so many different this over the last year, I cant keep track of your points.

Tue, 2014-12-23 13:50

#580

ikosmos

Say "Cheese" Vladislav. You may be about to become (in)famous.

Tue, 2014-12-23 14:01

#581

ikosmos

We now have THE NAME of the Ukrainian pilot who shot down the civilian airliner.

Meet The Pilot Who Shot Down Malaysian Boeing MH-17 -Vladislav Voloshin: "The Plane Was In the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time"

Quote:
- Yes. Knowing this pilot a little bit... (quite possibly, when the other two airplanes were shot down in front of him), he just had a frightened reaction, inadequate. Could out of fright or in revenge launch the missiles into a Boeing. Maybe he took it for some other combat aircraft....

What else do you remember this day? What did the pilot say?

- He said a phrase, when he was lead out of the airplane: "It was not the right plane." And in the evening there was a phrase to a question from one pilot to him, to Voloshin: "What's up with the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Actual interview (in Russian)

"But, but, but ....!!"

Blame the Rooskies!

Tue, 2014-12-23 14:20

#582

Webgear

Why is he pictured with a bunch of Mig-23s when he is a SU-25 pilot? That's right, most sites are deeming this as a forgery.

Tue, 2014-12-23 14:25

#583

ikosmos

Russian "special services" claims they have evidence showing that

Quote:
... the downing of the Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine’s Donbas area in July 2014 might have happened as a result of an operation by Ukrainian secret services, but it remains unclear whether the ill-fortunate passenger jet had been the real target, or if it was a tragic mistake, a reliable source at a competent agency told the media.

Interesting. Is this

a) a fabrication by Russian special services ?

b) a way to provide an "excuse" for the Ukrainian military, if it turns out that one of their pilots shot down MH-17?

c) another piece of evidence purporting to show yet another war crime by the junta in Kiev?

d) something else?

Ukrainian secret services involved in Boeing disaster over Donbas — Russian source

Tue, 2014-12-23 17:45

#584

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Mean while in the real world up in Canada...

Tue, 2014-12-23 19:05

#585

sherpa-finn

THAT'S NOT FUNNY, Bec - this international aviation sleuthing is serious business!

And having pored through all the available documentation on the internet, it appears to be pretty well agreed by most authorities that the most likely scenario about MH-17 is that it was in fact the long missing MH-370. To the few remaining skeptics, - it is all explained here: (ith links and photos.)

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-in-fact-lost-flight-mh.html

You're welcome.

So, I think this thread is a wrap, mods. We are done here.

Wed, 2014-12-24 14:18

#586

NDPP

Witness Account of Ukraine MH17 Takedown Confirmed By Lie Detector - Investigators

http://rt.com/news/217295-mh17-ukraine-military-plane/

"Russia's Investigative Committee has confirmed the claims by a Ukrainian said he witnessed the deployment of a Ukrainian warplane armed with air-to-air missiles on the day the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down..."

Another MH17 Cover Up - by Eric Zuesse

http://www.countercurrents.org/zuesse241214.htm

"If the pilot was killed by bullets, then the standard 'explanation' of the downing isn't just false, it's an outright hoax. So where's the pilot's autopsy?

According to London's Daily Mail on Dec 5, a video documentary from a Russian journalist 'suggested' that 'pieces of 30mm rounds were found in the bodies of the pilots..."

Wed, 2014-12-24 18:18

#587

ikosmos

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov :

"All International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) norms are being violated as the Ukrainian security services are directly involved in the ongoing investigation," Lavrov said in an interview with Russia's Kommersant newspaper published on Thursday.

"The country where the tragedy took place could be involved [in the probe], but it cannot run the show as it happens now," the minister said, adding that it was dishonest to use a tragedy to achieve one's geopolitical goals.

Given the above claims in the TASS article, what we have is the possibility - no, the likelihood - that those responsible for the dowing of MH-17 ... are directly involved in running the investigation of the crash.

Gee - if and when this investigation - which is being prolonged interminably by the Dutch in any case - ever reaches any conclusions about responsibility, I wonder what those conclusions will be?

Quote:
Ukraine's Security Service said last week that the probe would continue throughout next year since it was "complicated and time-consuming".

Yeah, I bet. What a farce.

Lavrov criticizes the role of Ukrainian Security Services in MH-17 investigation.

Sun, 2014-12-28 17:42

#588

NDPP

Russian FM: US, Ukraine Will Have to Answer Questions About MH17 Crash

http://tass.ru/en/world/769260

"We still have no replies to the questions:

Where is the data from the US satellites that monitored the area on that day?

Where is the data from US planes that were flying over that area?

Where are the testimonies of Dnipropetrovsk air traffic controllers who were responsible for keeping track of flights in that part of Ukraine's airspace?

We have long requested a logbook of sorties Ukrainian combat planes based in that area flew that day,' Lavrov said, adding that nothing had been done.

'We only hear accusations that Russia is to blame for everything, that the militias are to blame for everything, and that our questions are being asked for the sole purpose of misleading the investigation,' Lavrov said.

'It is impossible to pretend ignorance when very specific questions are asked again and again. We have opened a criminal case. It will be impossible to ignore this process. The questions will have to be answered,' he said..."

Tue, 2014-12-30 15:29

#589

NDPP

Not BUK-M1: New Video Proof (and vid)

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/12/not-buk-m1-new-video-proof.html

"Check out the excellent report by Dutch journalist Max Vanderwerff who debunks the reports by allegedly showing a video of a BUK-M1 launch..."

Tue, 2014-12-30 21:30

#590

sherpa-finn

Let's agree on this: a Dutch blogger sitting in the Philippines playing around with Google maps and old You Tube videos has "proof" of NOTHING related to MH17. Apart of course from the truism that there are too many people in this world with far too much idle time on their hands. And too many websites happy to publish their rubbish to try and crank up hits. Yawn.

Wed, 2014-12-31 14:31

#591

ikosmos

In the year-end summary on Peter Lavelle's Crosstalk, Peter and his guests (3 staffers from RT) felt that the downing of the civilian airliner MH-17 was the top story of 2014.

Well, sort of. The story itself has kind of fallen off the radar (pardon the pun) in Western MSM. And that too, is part of the story. How little interest there is, even by the Dutch - who are supposed to be investigating the crash - is very telling.

From very, very loud coverage, blaming the Rooooooooooooskies without a shred of evidence to substantiate the claims, then sanctions based, in part, on those unsubstantiated claims, accompanied by personalization of the crash (e.g., "Putin killed my mom!" and other lurid and despicable front page headlines in leading western mass media) , and then followed by dead silence once the lack of evidence become too clear to hide.

Wed, 2014-12-31 19:19

#592

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Not a shred of evidence maybe you or the Saker ass will accept so that makes it you opinion.

No one is really blaming Russia; at least I haven't. Most blame the Pro-Russian rebels. Russia only gets mud in it's face for probably providing the weapon system.

But' please keep the spinorama going.

Happy New Year by the way...

Wed, 2014-12-31 19:22

#593

sherpa-finn

I appreciate the political imperative of some to be shrill about the "dead silence" around teh investigation - but as we all know such investigations are almost always done behind closed doors and can take multiple years to complete. In recent years, some have taken up to 3 years to submit reports ... so let's just play politely on the grassy knoll while the professionals do their work. And Happy New Year, everyone!

Wed, 2015-01-14 15:01

#594

ikosmos

Urgent open letter by an #MH17 victim’s relative

Quote:
That one, even as a relative of victims, is being misled by the government, and being lied to without receiving proper information about the real causes and events, results in immense psychological damage, for which there is no compensation. You get this without even asking for it—free of charge! That it is impossible to process the horrible events under these circumstances does not seem to matter to the government. That the government also has an obligation to provide care to its citizens does not seem to have been registered. Actually, the government is abusing the emotional state in which the relatives find themselves. In addition, the government purposefully leaves room for all kinds of speculations by which the discontent and disagreement between the people only increases. And last but not least, when you finally, even as a relative of the victims, start to ask critical questions about the investigation, the same government keeps you at arm’s length and treats you as a conspiracy theorists or even as a perpetrator.

Blame the Rooskies!

Quote:
The fact that the government never apologized for their accusations against Russia, made without any kind of evidence in the immediate aftermath of the crash, disgusts me. We are all human beings and human beings make mistakes from which we can learn something. Owning up to having made a mistake and apologizing for it would have been a correct and humane gesture. However, after intense indoctrination (the first two reports about a topic make a lasting impression unless we consciously inform ourselves further—this is basic psychology), there was a sudden veil of secrecy and an attitude of ‘let the world be damned’ [orig. “und liess die Welt in Trümmern liegen”—ed.]. Any protests by citizens about censorship and secrecy by the government are rejected out of hand

Sat, 2015-01-17 13:27

#595

NDPP

Excellent RT Documentary About MH17 (and vid)

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/01/excellent-rt-documentary-about-...

Sat, 2015-01-24 11:17

#596

Doug Woodard

A discussion of radar images on a (nominally) professional pilots' forum might interest some:

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/554257-russian-radarimages-jetfighters-...

Wed, 2015-01-28 09:39

#597