Green Party of Canada

addictedtomyipod wrote:

It drives me crazy that the Greens make all these claims to be different, non-partisan or more democratic when they are no different, if not worse, than the others.

That's how I feel about the NDP these days. Maybe that is what Elizabeth May is reacting to.

It is quite simple really:

Right-wing = Liberal, Conservative or Green

Left-wing = NDP

Debater wrote:

DLivings wrote:

Here's (post #85) a re-blog of references to E May's liberal leanings and dislike for the ndp.

Have you examined some of the genuine reasons why Elizabeth May dislikes the NDP?

1.  NDP tried to bar her from the debates a couple elections ago.  She posted about this again on Twitter last week and said that although Dion argued she should be in the debates, Layton opposed it.  I believe Duceppe also supported her.

2.  Mulcair has treated May with disrespect and been very cold towards her.  May says that she has a more friendly working relationship with Justin Trudeau in the House of Commons.  Mulcair forbade the NDP caucus from responding to May's letter suggesting electoral co-operation last year.  Although Trudeau turned her down, he at least gave her the dignity of listening to her.

Your comments (#2) don't reflect the reality that May's attitude towards the Liberals and the ndp predates Mulcair by a decade, and the refernce to Layton is irrelevant for the same reason.

The Green Party's stunning success in the Canadian House of Commons followed a series of daredevil moves by the most brilliant constitutional lawyer in Canada, Stephane Dion. This is a man who wants Clarity in his water as well as his Bill. Now run by a former Mulroney PC, the Green Party is in the same political position as the PC Party was in 1993. As Brian Mulroney often says, "Lorsque."

The Green Party is a spoiler party for the Liberals. At 7% nationally, it is in the perfect position to help the Liberals through to their agenda, which is to talk progressive and build pipelines. Now, Justin Trudeau is making the Marijuana Party another Liberal adjunct, which is probably designed to ensure the Green Party splits against itself. The last time I looked at a picture of a cannabis leaf, it was green.

Anyone who has an eye for design knows that Red and Green are never to be seen, except at Christmas. The mixture is brown, which always seems to go down, as Al Gore used to say.

A stereotypical Green Party fanatic has no car, but thinks that Atlas Shrugged is the greatest book ever written.

The Greens are poised to surprise in B.C..

NorthReport wrote:

It is quite simple really:

Right-wing = Liberal, Conservative or Green

Left-wing = NDP

More like:

Right-wing to right-of-centre =  Con, Lib, Grn

Centre to slightly left-of-centre = NDP

One of the saddest developments in Canadian politics is how the Green Party is panning out. The rise of Green parties in almost every other country has meant the rise of a party that challeneges social democratic and social liberal parties from the left. Even Green parties in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and the US are mostly to the left of the established, major left-leaning parties. Not in Canada.

PrairieDemocrat15 wrote:

Centre to slightly left-of-centre = NDP

Er, no.

Not when it's now led by a former Liberal, who served in the cabinet of an ex-Mulroney Tory and who has been working overtime to move the NDP to the 'centre'.

Liberals aren't right-wing but their leader moved his company off shore to avoid canadian taxes, canadian labour laws, and canadian environmental protection laws. Sure the liberals aren't right-wing. 

Pondering wrote:

I agree with the people who say the whole left/centre/right thing is becoming less and less informative as the parties morph and in many ways all move towards the "centre".

I agree.

Parties are becoming more & more alike in many ways.  The NDP is more like the Liberals now than at any time in modern history, and the NDP is also becoming more like the Conservatives as they move towards Free Trade under Mulcair, and with a leader like Mulcair who is a Liberal.

The fact that the leader of the NDP is now a Liberal and that the Interim Leader of the Liberals was an NDPer has probably further cemented in the mind of voters the idea that the parties are very similiar.  I also think that contributes to lower voter turnout.

Debater wrote:

PrairieDemocrat15 wrote:

Centre to slightly left-of-centre = NDP

Er, no.

Not when it's now led by a former Liberal, who served in the cabinet of an ex-Mulroney Tory and who has been working overtime to move the NDP to the 'centre'.

I agree, the NDP is a centre-right party. They are just a bit slower in their rush to neo-liberalism than the Conservatgives and the Liberals. 

But you know, of course, that there is no affiliation betwene the Quebec Liberals (a big tent of supporters of three different federal parties) and the federal Liberals. 

autoworker wrote:

The Greens are poised to surprise in B.C..

Indeed if the Vancouver municipal elections are any guide the party really seems to be on the rise on the west coast.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-voters-elect-la... Vancouver voters elect largest green caucus in Canadian history[/url]

Quote:

The Green party is celebrating what it called an historic win in Vancouver’s civic election, a vote that saw the largest Green caucus ever elected assert its place on council and the city’s park and school boards.

Four of the party's seven candidates were given the nod from voters on Saturday in an election with the highest turnout in more than a decade.

"This is a huge win for the Greens," said former Green party leader and re-elected Vancouver city councillor Adriane Carr.

"In fact, by electing four Greens to the three governance bodies in Vancouver, we have just elected — Vancouverites have just elected — the largest Green caucus in Canadian history."

​Carr is the only candidate ever elected to a major Canadian city council under the Green party banner. Now she has company on the Vancouver park and school boards.

Green party candidates Stuart Mackinnon and Michael Wiebe snapped up the last two spots for commissioners on Saturday, beating out Vision Vancouver candidate and former West End Residents Association president Brent Granby by 1,300 votes in the midst of a near-rout of park board positions by the NPA.

The Green Party's Janet Fraser was also elected to the Vancouver School Board Saturday.

Aggressive?  Compared to whom?  Seems to me that all the parties are being very competitive right now and are into campaign mode.  The Greens are hardly alone.

Anyway, tonight the Greens are acclaiming Elizabeth May's hand-picked star candidate Jo-Ann Roberts in Victoria.

Elizabeth May has always been praised (eg. by Tzaborah Berman) for putting the environment before party politics.  So why is she targeting one of the greenest MPs in Canada?  How will this help get rid of Harper?  She is no different than any other politician--but perhaps worse because she is always putting herself on a pedestal--eg. "I'm the hardest working MP"  "I work 4x's harder than any other MP" . . .

Thanks for the correction--I was too lazy to look it up.

CARAVAN OF DOOM

grangerock wrote:

Elizabeth May has always been praised (eg. by Tzaborah Berman) for putting the environment before party politics.  So why is she targeting one of the greenest MPs in Canada?  How will this help get rid of Harper?

Frankly, gets even worse on Van Isle. Last night the Greens selected Fran Hunt-Jinnouchi as their candidate in the neighbouring riding of Cowichan-Malahat-Langford. Hunt-Jinnouchi certainly has quite a respectable CV and I didn't even know that she was FN.

The Cowichan Valley also has a large FN base that has voted strongly NDP. Suspect that she will attract a chunk of that FN vote along with the surging Green vote in the Cowichan Valley - based upon both BC 2013 provincial results and 2014 muni results:

One must remember that newly redistributed C-M-L (which Jean Crowder mostly represented) would have beeen won by the NDP by a razor-thin 0.61% in 2011 when the NDP peaked in BC at 33% popular vote share. 

I also understand that NDP HQ (suspect Anne McGrath) delayed the NDP C-M-L nomination meeting twice as they were not confident that the 5 announced candidates would be "competitive enough" for the riding. The 6th candidate jumped in back in the fall - Georgia Collins (who was also endorsed by Nathan Cullen, Megan Leslie and Randall Garrison). Superb candidate. But Georgia lost narrowly last weekend to Alistair MacGregor.

With the NDP candidacy, this Green surge, (not to mention fed Lib uptick), I have no doubt now that the Cons will pick this seat up. Have been banging the war drums trying to ensure a proper response to the Greens but to no avail. Sigh.

Thanks Centrist for making very clear what is at stake by people supporting the Greens.

Debater wrote:

The question about the debates still remains, though.  Will May be allowed in?

If the standard is having an elected MP or your leader elected, then May should by rights be in the debates.

You always have to get in a dig at Justin Trudeau, don't you Nicky?  Even when the topic has nothing to do with him.

The Green Party has 2 MP's, and so does the BQ as well as F&D.  So the Broadcast Consortium or whoever is in charge of these things is going to have a complicated situation on their hands.  What is the threshold for being in the debates?  Because all 3 of these smaller parties each have 2 MP's in Parliament (although of the 3 the BQ is the only one whose leader isn't elected yet).

The BQ has always been in the English debates -- going back to 1993.  I'm not sure how it could be justified to change it after 20+ years.  The purpose of the BQ being in the English debates isn't obviously about getting Anglophone votes -- it is about being present to have an influence over the debate and make sure the BQ's position gets represented, which is something that Francophones watching the English debate may be interested to see.

Robo wrote:

Debater wrote:

You always have to get in a dig at Justin Trudeau, don't you Nicky?  Even when the topic has nothing to do with him.

How is this different than you having to always get digs in about Tom Mulcair?

Where do I do that?  Cite some examples.  I rarely take personal shots at Mulcair.  I don't go out of my way to try and make nasty comments.

Usually what I post about Mulcair are factual discussions of his poor by-election results which are based on actual numbers & facts.

Beware the analogy of false equivalency.

The comment I made about Tom Mulcair was in reference to actual policies & positions that he is taking - it was not a personal attack on him.  Mulcair is apparently open to supporting Harper's anti-terrorism bill.  An NDP supporter had called Trudeau "increasingly right-wing" and so I was just countering by pointing out that it makes Mulcair increasingly right-wing if he's supporting Harper's legislation then, too.

I don't constantly try to insult Mulcair's intelligence or talk about his looks, etc.  I was commenting on the report in La Presse about Mulcair's openness to supporting the Conservative legislation.  That's called political analysis - not a personal attack.

Quote:

I can´t help but recall the interview on the Canadian Brainwash Corporation with paul dewar over NDP´s supposed opposition to engaging ISIL, because it was not sanctioned by the broader coalition of NATO...unbelievable!

I remember the good old days when the NDP called for Canada to withdraw from NATO and NORAD.

Quote:

Elizabeth May has always been praised (eg. by Tzaborah Berman) for putting the environment before party politics.  So why is she targeting one of the greenest MPs in Canada?  How will this help get rid of Harper?

Having said that, former Green Party leader Mike...oops I mean Jim Harris ran in Toronto Danforth in 2004 against Jack Layton who was trying to get into the house for the first time post leadership race.   Whatever criticism anyone might have of Jack Layton, he had tons of eco-cred from his work at Toronto City Hall.    Jim Harris had none.

Then in 2006, he ran next door against Marilyn Churley in Beaches -East York.    Churley was one of the more progressive members of the Ontario NDP caucus and had a long standing record fighting for local environmental issues in the east end of Toronto.    He acted as a spoiler, allowing Maria Minna, one of the most useless do nothing members of the federal Liberal caucus to get re-elected.

Jim Harris' record on eco-activism on east end Toronto envrionmental issues?    Zilch!

There are truly progressive Green parties in some other parts of the world, but the Green Party of Canada isn't one of them.   The GPC is an eco-capitalist party...Tories with composters.

radiorahim wrote:

Having said that, former Green Party leader Mike...oops I mean Jim Harris ran in Toronto Danforth in 2004 against Jack Layton who was trying to get into the house for the first time post leadership race.   Whatever criticism anyone might have of Jack Layton, he had tons of eco-cred from his work at Toronto City Hall.    Jim Harris had none.

Then in 2006, he ran next door against Marilyn Churley in Beaches -East York.    Churley was one of the more progressive members of the Ontario NDP caucus and had a long standing record fighting for local environmental issues in the east end of Toronto.    He acted as a spoiler, allowing Maria Minna, one of the most useless do nothing members of the federal Liberal caucus to get re-elected.

Jim Harris' record on eco-activism on east end Toronto envrionmental issues?    Zilch!

There are truly progressive Green parties in some other parts of the world, but the Green Party of Canada isn't one of them.   The GPC is an eco-capitalist party...Tories with composters.

But both Toronto-Danforth and Beaches-East York were Liberal-held ridings when Jim Harris ran in them.  So that's another example of a Green Leader running in Liberal-held seats.

So who were the Greens really running against?  Why do the NDP make it all about them and not acknowledge that the Greens run against the Liberals as well?

And btw, the Green Party predates Elizabeth May & Jim Harris.  It was created in 1983, back when Pierre Trudeau was Prime Minister.  So what does that tell us?  It's been around for several decades.  It has its own history that pre-dates Elizabeth May & Stéphane Dion and certainly wasn't created to help Pierre Trudeau.

.