Liberals behind alleged by-election bribe: OPP
Fri, 2015-02-06 00:12
#1
Liberals behind alleged by-election bribe: OPP
Fri, 2015-02-06 00:13
#2
What exactly does this mean?
Fri, 2015-02-06 00:25
#3
Does this call into question the Sudbury by-election results?
The timing of this bombshell if that is what it is is stunning.
Fri, 2015-02-06 01:14
#4
I see you're already hard at work on your next strategem. 
Fri, 2015-02-06 01:28
#5
I don't think the outcome would be affected if the winner had not been the one who directly benefitted from the bribery. However, the one alleged to have interfered in the election process is also the beneficiary of the fraud, so it would seem there would be a good case to void the results.
Poor Sudbury. A decent Liberal candidate overthrown for a rank opportunist, who is leveraged into position through what police think are dirty tricks. then goes on to win the campaign.
This isn't over yet. :(
Fri, 2015-02-06 15:21
#6
Unless there's evidence of criminality by Thibeault he'll probably be able to hang onto his seat until the next election. And, to be fair, since (1) the attempted bribe didn't work because Olivier ran anyways and (2) the voters were largely aware of the allegations at the time they voted, one can't really argue that the result itself is tainted.
That being said, Lougheed and Sorbara are both staring at some potentially serious legal trouble as is Wynne if it can be proved that she knew what they were up to. Unless the Liberal attorney general just squashes the investigation in the end.
Fri, 2015-02-06 15:24
#7
[url=http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2015/02/06/we-are-disturbingly-compl... Keenan (Toronto Star columnist): We are disturbingly complacent about the Sudbury byelection allegations[/url]
Sure, the OPP is investigating and we’ll eventually sort out some degree of criminal guilt or innocence, but on the face of it the scandal doesn’t seem to have rocked the public consciousness. The Liberals won despite the investigation. The public debates beer store options and rumours of a carbon tax with more enthusiasm than this allegation of a major ethics breech staring us in the face.
Indeed, the Lougheed-Olivier conversation is like dialogue from House of Cards, confirming our worst suspicions of how our political class approaches elections and the task of governing. What’s in it for me? What are you giving me? I suspect the answer Ling’s question is that it is not received as a bigger deal precisely because we suspect this is routine. Everybody knows the fight is fixed, that’s how it goes.
Former Ottawa parliamentary secretary Dean Del Mastro is not just charged but convicted of election fraud, and while he faces a possible jail sentence, his party remains competitive in the polls — even after robocalls and a Senate scandal seemed to confirm a pattern of integrity violations. Toronto Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti was reprimanded by city council over an improper fundraiser that appeared to funnel money into his own pocket, and then was found guilty by a court of violating election spending laws, but he remains in office — re-elected by a comfortable margin.
Integrity laws? Bald-faced perversions of our very democratic process? Ho-hum.
If our failure to be shocked isn’t exactly shocking, it may be ultimately more disturbing than the specific allegations themselves. For if we no longer consider the laws that govern how we govern ourselves inviolable, if we accept that the rules are there to be broken with a wink and a nudge and all’s fair for those who don’t get caught, then our democracy itself is severely broken.
Fri, 2015-02-06 15:28
#8
Silver lining if this at least means Wynne does not dare name Thibeault to Cabinet.
Fri, 2015-02-06 15:30
#9
No way demands to have the election results challenged will have any practical challenge.
Fri, 2015-02-06 16:00
#10
Silver lining if this at least means Wynne does not dare name Thibeault to Cabinet.
Don't be sure about that. Wynne has already said she has done nothing wrong. They are not even one year into their mandate. Best to take hits early, rather than in 2018.
He will be in cabinet for sure, as he represents the North. They need a voice at the cabinet table, and that will be the Liberal narrative.
Fri, 2015-02-06 16:32
#11
He will be in cabinet for sure, as he represents the North. They need a voice at the cabinet table, and that will be the Liberal narrative.
Does Ontario still have a Ministry of Democratic Renewal, Accountability and Transparency? That would be a good one.
Fri, 2015-02-06 16:32
#12
Of course Wynne says she has done nothing wrong.
That is always done at the same time you run away from an issue fast as you can.
She wont be naming him to Cabinet soon. Later, we'll see.
Fri, 2015-02-06 19:49
#13
As I understand it, parties retain the legal right to tell any prospective candidate "Sorry, we won't let you run under our logo".
So I'm having trouble understanding how saying "We'd prefer you let someone else run, and here's some other valuable things you could do" is specificially worse (or less legal) than "Go away; you're dead to us".
Whatever legal issues may come of this seem to me to be between Mr. Olivier and the Liberals, not between the electorate in that riding and the Liberals. In fact, anyone in that riding who feels they were unfairly denied the opportunity to vote for Mr. Olivier in fact had the opportunity to vote for Mr. Olivier.
Sorry if I just squandered an opportunity to bring the "Lieberals" down once and for all :(
Fri, 2015-02-06 21:41
#14
montrealer58
So funny the way the Liberal Red Star goes cluck cluck cluck about ethics violations, when "Liberal" is another word for "ethics violation", and it is the same Liberal Red Star which supports the same Liberals.
Sat, 2015-02-07 13:19
#15
As I understand it, parties retain the legal right to tell any prospective candidate "Sorry, we won't let you run under our logo".
So I'm having trouble understanding how saying "We'd prefer you let someone else run, and here's some other valuable things you could do" is specificially worse (or less legal) than "Go away; you're dead to us".
Whatever legal issues may come of this seem to me to be between Mr. Olivier and the Liberals, not between the electorate in that riding and the Liberals. In fact, anyone in that riding who feels they were unfairly denied the opportunity to vote for Mr. Olivier in fact had the opportunity to vote for Mr. Olivier.
Sorry if I just squandered an opportunity to bring the "Lieberals" down once and for all :(
The legal issues are between the Ontario Provincial Police and the Liberals who were recorded by Olivier. They are the ones who are under a criminal investigation for apparently breaking Section 125b of the Criminal Code of Canada.
125. Every one who
…
(b) solicits, recommends or negotiates in any manner with respect to an appointment to or resignation from an office, in expectation of a direct or indirect reward,advantage or benefit
,…
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fiveyears.
This can be found here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/254962075/Ontario-Provincial-Police-search-war...
and the all of the clauses of section 125 can be found here:
http://quesnelnews.com/ethics_criminal_code_handout.pdf
The evidence is in the recordings and the Liberals will have to hire Rob Ford’s lawyer to find some kind of technicality to get out of this one. As far as I’m concerned, they should be sentenced to prison time like those Liberal Senators.
Sat, 2015-02-07 14:55
#16
I guess we'll have to wait for the results of the investigation, but it's still a bit hard to understand how offering him another job constitutes bribery of some sort when his candidacy under the Liberal banner is at the discretion of the Liberals. Why would they need to bribe him to not run for the Liberals if all the Liberals have to do (and are within their rights to do) is say "sorry, but we're going with someone else".
Sat, 2015-02-07 15:44
#17
Why would they need to bribe him to not run for the Liberals if all the Liberals have to do (and are within their rights to do) is say "sorry, but we're going with someone else".
Because if they did that, they risked a backlash on the grounds of being dictatorial, and this could very easily have cost them votes. If they can "convince" the popular candidate to step aside for their preferred candidate, they avoid that negativity.
Thu, 2015-02-12 05:10
#18
He will be in cabinet for sure, as he represents the North. They need a voice at the cabinet table, and that will be the Liberal narrative.
The North is already represented in the Wynne government. The Liberals hold both Thunder Bay ridings, as well as Sault Ste. Marie.
Sun, 2015-02-15 20:15
#19
Wrote this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here
The following is neither an endorsement or support of Sudbury Reporter speculation. I'm just posting for public consumption and an FYI to Babble posters.
On Focus Ontario this week, discussion centred on analysing the Sudbury by-election.
Local Sudbury reporter said the Liberals won this for one simple reason. Sudbury wanted an MPP in government at the cabinet table.
The former Liberal MPP for Sudbury was a cabinet minister for a decade, and Sudbury was used to it. Made them feel important, as their representative was in government.
The community wanted that again, as it didn't feel the same with the short-lived NDP MPP
Again these are the reporters words, not mine. I'm just posting this for discussion as maybe that is the reason the Liberals won the by-election.
Mon, 2015-02-16 15:57
#20
Sparks sure to fly over Liberal scandal in new Ontario legislative session
A criminal investigation hanging over Ontario's Liberal government is expected to dominate the start of a new legislative session as provincial politicians return to the house Tuesday after a nine-week break.
Opposition parties weren't silent on other alleged government misdeeds last session, such as the deletion of documents in the former premier's office on the cancellation of two gas plants, but since the legislature broke in December, Premier Kathleen Wynne has found herself embroiled in a new scandal.
Wynne decided to appoint Glenn Thibeault, who left the federal NDP for the provincial Liberals, as the party's candidate for a byelection in Sudbury rather than pitting him against the previous Liberal candidate for the riding in an open nomination.
The spurned candidate, Andrew Olivier, alleges that the Liberals offered him a job or appointment to step aside for Thibeault. Olivier, who is quadriplegic and records many conversations in lieu of taking notes, posted audio online of his talks with local Liberal Gerry Lougheed and the premier's deputy chief of staff, Pat Sorbara.
The Ontario Provincial Police and Elections Ontario are investigating. The Liberals have maintained no specific offer was made to Olivier, saying they were trying to keep him active in the party.
Wynne has not faced questions from reporters since police filed a court document in which they say there are grounds to believe an offence was committed.
http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2015/02/16/sparks-sure-to-fly-over-libe...
Thu, 2015-02-19 11:06
#21
Breaking...
[url=http://metronews.ca/news/ottawa/1291946/elections-ontario-says-liberals-... Ontario: Liberals Violated Elections Act[/url]
[quote]TORONTO – Elections Ontario has found that the actions of two Liberals, including the premier’s deputy chief of staff, constitute an “apparent contravention” of a bribery section of the Election Act.
***
Greg Essensa, the chief electoral officer of Ontario, says since Elections Ontario has no mandate to conduct prosecutions he has referred the matter to the Ministry of the Attorney General.
He says these are “unprecedented circumstances” as no chief electoral officer has ever conducted an investigation into bribery allegations or reported an apparent contravention of the Election Act before.
Thu, 2015-02-19 11:47
#22
Behind the scenes, Patricia Sorbara runs the Ontario Liberal machine
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/behind-the-scenes-patricia-...
Thu, 2015-02-19 15:01
#23
This is not a big deal, nepotism is practised on a daily basis in society, and is accepted. I am an immigrant to Canada, when I graduated from University , all my friends had family members (aunt uncles etc) who got them their first job, while I had a terrible time finding one since I knew noone. This is an example of societal norm.
Thu, 2015-02-19 15:03
#24
Bullshit. This could be construed as criminal activity but what's to say about your comments.....
This is not a big deal, nepotism is practised on a daily basis in society, and is accepted. I am an immigrant to Canada, when I graduated from University , all my friends had family members (aunt uncles etc) who got them their first job, while I had a terrible time finding one since I knew noone. This is an example of societal norm.
Thu, 2015-02-19 15:04
#25
well how is this different from nepotism?Bullshit. This could be construed as criminal activity but what's to say about your comments.....
This is not a big deal, nepotism is practised on a daily basis in society, and is accepted. I am an immigrant to Canada, when I graduated from University , all my friends had family members (aunt uncles etc) who got them their first job, while I had a terrible time finding one since I knew noone. This is an example of societal norm.
Thu, 2015-02-19 16:48
#26
montrealer58
I would tend to agree with ajaykumar here. Nepotism is bad. That is why I am suspicious of Justin Trudeau.
Thu, 2015-02-19 17:22
#27
It's one thing to give a family meber a job in a private company. It isquite another thing, in fact a crime, to offer someone a job to get them to withdraw as a candidate.
AJK like too many Liberals seems incapable of grasping the distinction.
Thu, 2015-02-19 19:28
#28
Different enough for ya. Some folks don't know when to quit while they are ahead.
Jail time possible as Elections Ontario sends investigation of Sudbury byelection to Attorney General
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/19/elections-ontario-refers-investi...
Thu, 2015-02-19 19:28
#29
Different enough for ya. Some folks don't know when to quit while they are ahead.
Jail time possible as Elections Ontario sends investigation of Sudbury byelection to Attorney General
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/19/elections-ontario-refers-investi...
Thu, 2015-02-19 20:01
#30
Two other possible subjects of investigation:
1) Did someone in the premier's office manage to intercede with the OPP to delay the polling day release of their findings until it was too late in the day for those findings to register with the voters?
2) Was Cimino offered something by the premier or the OLP in exchange for giving up the seat after only six months in office and causing the byelection in the first place? As I understand it, Cimino has never offered any explanation for resigning from the provincial parliament at such a weirdly early date.
Fri, 2015-02-20 01:28
#31
Was Cimino offered something by the premier or the OLP in exchange for giving up the seat after only six months in office and causing the byelection in the first place? As I understand it, Cimino has never offered any explanation for resigning from the provincial parliament at such a weirdly early date.
He said something to do with personal or health reasons, which if you believe him, you would have to take him at his word. Somehow I just can't see an attempted bribe of the NDP going unnoticed in this political climate.
Fri, 2015-02-20 08:49
#32
Ken, I have heard two slightly different explanations for Cimino quitting. Both are highly persoanl and have nothing to do with your question #2.
As for Cimino's ethics we should remember that he voluntarily declined $50,000 in severance pay that he was entitled to.
I wonder how many members of the Ontario Liberal government would do that.
Sat, 2015-02-21 03:24
#33
Ken, I have heard two slightly different explanations for Cimino quitting. Both are highly persoanl and have nothing to do with your question #2.
It should also be noted that unlike the case with Wittmer in Waterloo, the Liberals had a majority going into this by-election and did not need to win Sudbury. I don't think even they would have risked the backlash of trying to bribe a sitting MPP when they already had what they needed in terms of the overall seat count.
Sat, 2015-02-21 07:09
#34
I don't think Cimino was bribed, refusing the money that he was legally entitled too showed to much integrity and loyalty to the NDP (protecting it's rep), for Cimino to have been bought. If fear it was simply some sort of health issue.
I hope everyone involved in the Liberal corrupt gets jail time and the Liberal brand gets horrible burned both federally and provincially.
Sat, 2015-02-21 07:21
#35
I don't think Cimino was bribed, refusing the money that he was legally entitled too showed to much integrity and loyalty to the NDP (protecting it's rep), for Cimino to have been bought. If fear it was simply some sort of health issue.
I hope everyone involved in the Liberal corrupt gets jail time and the Liberal brand gets horrible burned both federally and provincially.
I hope only the guilty get punished.
Mon, 2015-02-23 09:17
#36
Kathleen Wynne confirmed on Friday she was negotiating with former NDP MP Glenn Thibeault while he was still the NDP caucus chair!
Says Wynne, “I became aware that Glenn Thibeault would be willing to consider running for us. I was very interested . . . once I met Glenn, I was convinced that he was the right candidate for us,” she said.
“It was at that point last November — and well before any conversation with Andrew Olivier — that I decided that this was one of those situations where I would appoint our candidate.”
Glenn Thibeault resigned as caucus chair on December 2, 2014 citing family reasons.
Guess we now know what those reasons really were.
Mon, 2015-02-23 09:33
#37
Lougheed tells Olivier on the tape that they prefer that there be a nomination meeting where Thibeault is acclaimed and Olivier nominates him. Presumably that was Wynne's preferred route as well.The optics would certainly be better than an appointment.
It may be that Wynne was always prepared to appont Thibeault if plan #1 fell through but it still seems that there was a plan #1 whuich entailed bribing Oliver not to be a candidate.
It's just a little hard to believe Wynne. Her defence is not credible.
Mon, 2015-02-23 10:43
#38
Kathleen Wynne's "new way of doing politics" consists of bribery, sleazy machinations, innuendo about other parties and getting an NDP MP to spy on the NDP caucus on behalf of the Liberals. Thanks a lot Kathleen!
God only knows what other laws Wynne has broken - the woman is clearly a criminal
Mon, 2015-02-23 11:07
#39
It's one thing to give a family meber a job in a private company. It isquite another thing, in fact a crime, to offer someone a job to get them to withdraw as a candidate.
AJK like too many Liberals seems incapable of grasping the distinction.
Government is a private family company according to Liberal tradition.
Mon, 2015-02-23 12:13
#40
I hope everyone involved in the Liberal corrupt gets jail time and the Liberal brand gets horrible burned both federally and provincially.
I hope only the guilty get punished.
Yeah, that's what he said.
Mon, 2015-02-23 12:27
#41
I've removed a couple of posts because they can be construed as libelous.
Tue, 2015-02-24 00:47
#42
I've removed a couple of posts because they can be construed as libelous.
I would like to ask how you came to this conclusion? Did you consult a lawyer? Read up on libel law? This is not a snarky question, I am honestly curious.
And, btw, I apologize for a very harsh post I made some months ago criticizing you. Something to do with my intense opposition to authority, particularly parental authority. But in fact, I seem to agree with your position most of the time.
Sat, 2021-11-20 18:13
#43
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Sat, 2021-11-20 18:14
#44
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Sat, 2021-11-20 18:14
#45
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Sat, 2021-11-20 18:14
#46
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Tue, 2015-02-24 13:19
#47
So if it was such a long held and prized seat by the Wynne Liberals, sure didn't show it prior to or during the election.
Wow, sounds like the Liberals treated Oliver as if he were a leftover, you know, "we'll take you because we can't get anyone else." I can't imagine how demoralizing that must feel for him. What did he do that marked him as being unworthy in the eyes of the Liberals?
Tue, 2015-02-24 13:28
#48
LOL http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/24/alleged-ndp-misuse-of-taxp....
PAY THE TAXPAYERS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2.7 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Sat, 2021-11-20 18:15
#49
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Sat, 2021-11-20 18:15
#50
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Thu, 2015-02-26 19:47
#51
Kathleen Wynne facing new pressure to rescind appointment of Liberal fundraiser
Wynne faces new pressure to rescind Lougheed appointment after Sudbury police board seeks guidance
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2015/02/26/kathleen-wynne-facing-...