Toronto Symphony cancels pianist for tweeting her views about Ukraine

The TSO is obviously a gutless wonder when it should be a bastion, or am I missing something like the long arm of government patronage is now dependent  on singing the right political aria. If this is the case we are indeed further along the road to shutting down Canadian society than most would think. If this is just caving to the loudest in the Nazi loving Ukrainian community then the TSO deserves a blast from those who feel an artists right to free speech against injustices should be celebrated instead of this frightened "run away" response.

The Toronto Symphony Orchestra Silences Valentina Lisitsa's Music

http://slavyangrad.org/2015/04/06/the-toronto-symphony-orchestra-silence...

"...Before you decide to help me - if you wish, please take time and read my tweets. 

Here is what I ask you to do for me and in defence of freedom, even if you disagree with me on politics.

I ask you to raise your voice and tell Toronto Symphony that music can't be silenced.

Ask them to let me play...

If they do it once, they will do it again and again until the musicians and artists are intimidated into voluntary censorship.

Please stand with me..."

Does the TSO investigate the politics of all their performers? "Before you perform tonight we need to know what you think of Obamas accord with Iran?"

Again, I think it has less to do with politics than false comments about gas chambers. And it certainly isn't a question of free speech because she's getting plenty of publicity, which was obviously the point.

Should they have let her play? Sure. Because either way it is a lose lose for them, and her hijacking gigs to make a lightning rod of herself certainly doesn't make me feel any obligation to jump on a sympathy bandwagon. Obviously this is going to affect who is going to want to book her in the future.

NDPP wrote:

What exactly did she say about gas chambers Smith and where did you find this comment and its context?

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/04/07/valentina-lisitsa-concerts-cancell...

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/10/01/demonstrators-protest-anti-ukraini...

It's an obvious off-colour joke, not a crime.

It is not incite to anything, which is the important thing. The real issue is the McCarthyite blacklisting of performers, not a sense of humour that some may find offensive.

Of course they should have let her play. I find the gas chamber comment offensive as well, but since when are performers expected to have sterling views on such matters? You'd have to ban whole swaths of music for the sexist and homophobic views of many performers.

A twitter handle? Not quite the same thing, Unionist. For one thing it would probably put NDPP out of business if all that was necessary was to post a site's main page and expect us to go find the stories.

And I am not sure who you are talking about, but no, I'm not going to be manipulated into supporting racist trolling just because an organization like the TSO does something dumb in reaction to it. The Ukrainian government isn't sending anyone to gas chambers and this isn't 1941.

Quote:

So, I took to Twitter ( how many of you know I have a Twitter account? LOL) under a name “NedoUkraïnka” – a word roughly meaning “Sub-Ukrainian”, a stab at Ukrainian Prime Minister who called Russian-speaking Southern and Eastern Ukrainians “SUBHUMANS”! Yes, I kid you not. In an official written document. I am a subhuman, my husband, my mom….I mastered Ukrainian language perfectly, far better than a so-called “president” of Ukraine.

Her statement.

Statements, and off colour jokes such the one made by Lisetta only become "racist" if they are defamatory. Singling out the statements of the leaders of government for derision, are not "racist" if they reflect the truth.

If, the Ukrainian Prime Minister did in fact say that ethnic Russian Ukrainians are "subhuman", then her tangental embelishment is entirely valid, especially in the context of Ukrainian history.

“They lost their lives because they defended men and women, children and the elderly who found themselves in a situation facing a threat to be killed by invaders and sponsored by them inhumans. First, we will commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil”, - he said."

I think this is the offending quote.

What precisely did Yatsenyuk mean by that? It's actually worse than I thought. Clearly he is talking about ethnic cleansing.

So we don't hire black people, not because we ourselves are racist, but because our customers are, and someone might burn a cross outside our establishment, is that it?

The point is that you have a theoretical standar of "rights", which you either defend on principle or you do not. In this case not. TSO has been intimidated by censure for political reasons. This is a dangerous precedent, and should be opposed on principle.

Lisetta's statements are hardly egregious, and fair game in the context of what Prime Minister Yatseneuk said. It was hardly defamatory or mere racist screed. 

Rokossovsky wrote:

So we don't hire black people, not because we ourselves are racist, but because our customers are, and someone might burn a cross outside our establishment, is that it?

There's a pretty big difference between that, and dismissing someone who was already a public figure, and was hired BECAUSE of their status as a public figure, over comments(not skin colour) they made AS A PUBLIC FIGURE. NEXT...

The point is people make politically charged statements and organizations let them go over it rather than dealing with the fall out of being associated with them.  Again I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or commenting on the depth of the comments this pianiast made, but I'm saying having seen this stuff first hand (including a victim of it myself) I can see why.

But anyway. You think the CBC firing Flamagan was the same thing as CBC firing a talking-head because it turns out he has a Jewish grandfather?

voice of the damned wrote:

Rokossovsky wrote:

So we don't hire black people, not because we ourselves are racist, but because our customers are, and someone might burn a cross outside our establishment, is that it?

There's a pretty big difference between that, and dismissing someone who was already a public figure, and was hired BECAUSE of their status as a public figure, over comments(not skin colour) they made AS A PUBLIC FIGURE. NEXT...

I didn't know that being a "public figure" set you into different standard of rights.

On close examination, there is nothing particularly offensive about Lisetta's statements, or anything particularly controversial about it when put in the context of the Ukrainian PMs call for ethnic cleansing of "inhuman" ethnic-Russians.

In retrospect I am kind of glad this issue has come up, because I had no idea that these kinds of things were being said at the highest level of the Ukrainian government. Truly appalling. 

Next you will be arguing that the McCarthy era blacklisting of alleged "Communists" in Holywood was ok, because they were "public figures", making "controversial" statements.

voice of the damned wrote:

But anyway. You think the CBC firing Flamagan was the same thing as CBC firing a talking-head because it turns out he has a Jewish grandfather?

I can't help it if you can't tell the difference between rejection of racism and calls for ethnic cleansing at the highest levels of the Ukrainian government, and jokes about pedophilia.

No, but if a studio, on its own volition, had said "We don't want to hire actors who have PUBLICALLY expressed Communist opinions because it'll piss off our audience", that would be their right. Again, rabble(as an example) isn't obligated to host bloggers who express views that anger the majority of people who post and donate here.

voice of the damned wrote:

"Next you will be arguing that the McCarthy era blacklisting of alleged "Communists" in Holywood was ok, because they were "public figures"." No, but if a studio, on its own volition, had said "We don't want to hire actors who have PUBLICALLY expressed Communist opinions because it'll piss off our audience", that would be their right. Again, rabble(as an example) isn't obligated to host bloggers who express views that anger the majority of people who post and donate here.

No, because there is an intervention by a third party in this case as well, clearly. They didn't just come up with this on their own, because it was their opinion. Studios were in no way obligated to blacklist artists in the 1950s, under law. They did it to avoid public censure.

Rokossovsky wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

But anyway. You think the CBC firing Flamagan was the same thing as CBC firing a talking-head because it turns out he has a Jewish grandfather?

I can't help it if you can't tell the difference between rejection of racism and calls for ethnic cleansing at the highest levels of the Ukrainian government, and jokes about pedophilia.

Well, Flanagan wasn't just making jokes about pedophilia(in fact there wasn't much joking at all in his comments), he was expressing the opinion, in a rather provocative fashion, that possession child porn should not be a jailable offense. And he was likely as sincere in that opinion as Valentina Lisitsa was in here.

Personally, I found that a little over the top, and I don't usually make my aesthetic decisons on that sort of basis(granted, I'm not gay). But if enough people turn against Card for that reason, and if he gets some speaking engagements cancelled as a result, that's hardly a violation of his rights. He's still free to say what he wants about gays, and give readings at any venue that will have him.

Unionist wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Rokossovsky wrote:

I didn't know that being a "public figure" set you into different standard of rights.

Well, specifically, a public figure who makes controversial comments(as opposed to just having a certain skin colour). Nobody, not the CBC, nor the TSO, nor rabble etc etc, is obligated to align themselves with opinions that they or their clientele find distasteful. If one of rabble's allied bloggers started posting "Why I support the death penalty for adultery" columns, I'm pretty sure rabble would drop him like a hot potato. NEXT...

I can't believe you are seriously suggesting that by letting a pianist perform on its stage, the TSO would be aligning themselves with her opinions.

 

Well, I know people on this very forum who said that, while they were fans of the sci-fi writer Orson Scott Card, they stopped reading his books after he made homophobic remarks, even though his books have nothing to do with his views on sexiality. NEXT...

[b]Its a violation of the rights of all of those who paid to see her perform[/b]

So, this is really about payment for services unrendered? Well, maybe the people who bought tickets, and aren't happy with the replacement, could demand their money back. If that's really the issue, you should be satisfied with that outcome.