Sabre-Rattling Soars: Poland Buys US Patriot A-D System
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-21/sabre-rattling-soars-poland-buy...
"As the FT notes, Raytheon's Patriot system will give Poland the ability to defend itself against air missiles and military aircraft."
and the military-industrial complex thanks all of its supporters for their generous support
Here's the world war three investment planner I was talking about:
http://totalwealthresearch.com/rickards/five-signs-world-on-the-cusp-all...
Never mind total war. TOTAL WEALTH is what it is all about.
I guess every generation wants its own "Y2K".
Anyone want to swap some diesel fuel for a good tarp and ten pounds of powdered milk?
Like what the eff is this?
"But, of course, our smart ass faux left babblers know better than Oliver Stone and think ridicule of such ideas is the best approach. Very wise".
I'm so sick of this shit. And it is not because I support US or NATO policy; I've marched against many of these for not just years but decades. But I'm sick of this spam; comments echoing other comments by the same posters, and insulting people en masse (sorry, reference to a child of babble) for not going along with all this spamming. It doesn't make me want to read the comments those people have put on this site, over and over and over. And no, not because I have any kind of position in favour of the current Ukranian government (nor would I deny far-right forces there, though they also exist on the Russian side). I'm sick of the echo chamber method taking over our board.
The seed was planted 29 posts earlier.
Unless you think thermonuclear war is a laughing matter, which some babblers obviously do, then the subject looks to be worthy of serious investigation.
That should have made it clear to all of us that we can either agree wholeheartedly with the OP, or else we're just doing the bidding of Empire.
Personally, I don't have much to say on the matter of Russia's tragic victimization. I'm just here because I DO think nuclear war is hilarious! C'mon... total destruction of all living things within a ten mile radius, nuclear fallout for the next ten generations, millions of lives lost in an instant... what's NOT funny about that?
And more to the point, what other POSSIBLE reason could there be for not helping carve Putin's statue besides giggling at nuclear war? Surely there can be none. We can agree when we're finally just worn down, or we can do it the easy way.
I'm so sick of this shit.
Well stop reading it then.
We founded this site at the time of the Summit of the Americas in 2001. I'm a founding member. We founded it out of dissatisfaction with the corporate media. I will not be bullied by some neo-Stalinist crap, or by machos who speak to me like that.
Meh. It is an annoyance, but frankly pretty lightweight. If the mods give it a pass I consider it what one has to put up for an open forum regardless of how ridiculous it is. As for the insults, well clearly that is for the mods to deal with or not. Once you have been called a Nazi 10 times it doesn't carry too much weight anymore.
I'm so sick of this shit. And it is not because ...[blah blah]
When I started this thread, the best that those who disagreed with the main thesis was to ridicule the idea. Now, since there are so many significant figures, from across the entire political spectrum, who are pointing out the real danger of Western sponsored nuclear war, the approach is to kill by silence, or wallow in trivia, which amounts to the same thing.
Even Magoo can only muster a weak joke. I find it really hard to take any of you seriously. As Stephen Cohen recently pointed out, Russophobia is like a drug addict. The addict can only focus on the fix, and nothing else, and rational thought goes out the window.
How about addressing the main thrust of the thread? Why is that SO f*ing difficult?
No, I think it is far more serious than you say, as it is a way of shutting down discourse. By flooding it with this crap, and such absurd accusations as calling people, some of whom are well-known activists, "Nazi" or "faux leftists" but also just through the immense volume created by a couple of posters who don't seem to do anything else in life. (guess they are on shifts).
Actually ikosmos, when you start out of the gate with a line like "Anyone not brainwashed..." (as you do in your opening post) it doesn't exactly invite rational discussion or serious consideration.
And in fact some of us have tried during the course of this. Sorry, but there aren't "so many significant figures". It is speculation from the fringe at best, and really, just a foil for your main pet project.
"To question the US position on Ukraine means you will receive threats from Stalinist apologists and get a bitter pronounciation of dismissal and ridicule..." Chomsky #243
The speculation on the table is that the U.S is planning to attack on Russia and start world war three.
The notion that we are brainwashed if we question that? Sure, I ridicule it.
One of the ways the US is preparing war is to erase the history of WW2. Here is a very recent example.
The United States is demanding faster demolition of World War II monuments in one of the East European countries, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in a live interview to three Russian radio stations on Wednesday."We do know what type of activities the Americans are engaged in [European] capitals, and what messages they try to deliver," he said, commenting on his earlier statement Washington was using the Ukrainian crisis with the aim of spoiling Russia-EU relations.
"US emissaries have gone as far as to demand that the government of one of the East European countries, liberated by the Red Army, should speed up the demolition of monuments to World War II heroes," said Lavrov. He avoided mentioning the country he was referring to.
Lavrov is a diplomat and would avoid certain kinds of embarrassment of others, for face saving and other purposes.
Lavrov: US demands FASTER demolition of WW2 monuments.
and on and on it goes.
Never mind that that has nothing to do with starting any world war, all it is is a claim, with no evidence, and not even an accused person who can deny it.
Lavrov doesn't want cause anyone embarrassment? Try another one, please.
Here's another one. Go ahead and shit on Noam Chomsky.
RT: As for US-Russia relations, are we really in Cold War version 2.0?Noam Chomsky: It’s dangerous. The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists has a famous doomsday clock. It goes back to the late 1940s. The clock is placed several minutes before “midnight.” Midnight means we’re done, finished. They just moved it two minutes closer to midnight - three minutes from midnight. That’s the closest it’s been since the early 1980s when there was a major war scare. We now know how serious that war scare was. It wasn’t quite understood at the time, but it was very serious. Now it’s moved that close. One of the reasons is the deterioration in Russia-US relations, which is quite threatening. The other is environmental catastrophe, which we weren’t thinking about then. But, yes, that’s serious.
Noam Chomsky on the American Propaganda Machine and the "Weaponization" of Media and Information
How dare those Roooooooooooooooooooooskies publish Noam Chomsky! Just look at how the wise Canadian and US MSM treats him! With mostly dead silence! You should complain to the authorities, Smith! Everyone knows that he's a Russian puppet! Polly wants a cracker!
What Does Putin Want? - by Rostislav Ishchenko
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41645.htm
"..So the war will last until one side wins..."
We founded this site at the time of the Summit of the Americas in 2001. I'm a founding member. We founded it out of dissatisfaction with the corporate media. I will not be bullied by some neo-Stalinist crap, or by machos who speak to me like that.
I was here back then. No point of view is immune to challenge, and sometimes polemics are obviously involved, and certain words are exchanged. My point is that if you want to isolate yourself from it, from political discourse, there is an easy way to set about doing that. You've certainly been no stranger to pointed exchanges over the years.
Did I just say something about Noam Chomsky? I don't think so. But if you are going wave him around like he is god and make false accusations you should probably use quotes in context.
NDPP's pulled quotation at 263 isn't about this issue.If I were to claim some conspiracy like a coverup of the fact the earth is flat I'd probably get threats from Stalinist apologists and a bitter pronouncement of dismissal and ridicule.
Would that make the earth flat? No. And a pulled quote on a different issue doesn't provide any evidence on the claim of imminent attack either.
Not to mention that Chomsky has not been right about everything, nor has he always presented information honestly and fairly. But in this case he makes reference to a deterioration in U.S.-Russia relations. No one would deny that is true, but it is quite a few steps away from you using it to bolster a claim that anyone is planning an attack. And it is also quite a few steps away from the complete background behind the doomsday clock, which also includes security of nuclear material, nuclear proliferation by other nations, and a number of other factors.
MIT Professor: Greater Chance of Accidental Nuclear War Now Than During the Cold War
Changing technical conditions and issues, unstable political environments and geopolitical tensions are producing a greater danger of accidental nuclear war between the US and Russia than during the Cold War, according to Theodore A. Postol, a professor of Science, Technology, and International Security at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
We have only had about 260 nuclear almost-disasters, but there always seems to be human intervention in the last 5 minutes. <sarcasm> It is the price we must pay for peace. </sarcasm>
I do not think there should be any Western troops in Ukraine. But I do not think we should have any overseas wars at all. Our troops should be for things like natural disasters, civil engineering, etc. If our military were actually focused on the betterment of Canada rather than foreign policy agendas determined elsewhere, Canada would enjoy a higher quality of life.
I do know that to attack Russia, the Western/neoNazi/Ukranian forces will need to assemble about 1,000,000 soldiers, and for now we have only seen a few hundred going over. History buffs can figure out from WW2 how long it took to assemble in Ukraine before the push to Stalingrad.
Russians will defend their territory to the death. Our soldiers will not be so enthusiastic, especially being half a world away from their loved ones. Logistically, if the Russians lose 500,000 troops, they can bring up another 500,000. The West will not be able to do that so easily.
Where Russia is weak is economically measured in US Dollar terms. By that measure Russia's economy is smaller than Canada's. Yet Russia has all of the human and material resources to wage a significant war effort.
This kind of military action will probably lead to some kind of nuclear action <sarcasm>I guess we will burn that bridge when we get to it</sarcasm>
No one is serious though. Who is against the Harper war machine?
The center right elements in the EU, it seems, share the war-loving and misanthropic views of the US regime. Pepe Escobar calls this "Europe's putrified corpse in action".
Ain't Western Democracy grand?
EPP: EU should tell Russia we are ready to go to war
Hawkish language was heard at a hearing organised by the centre-right EPP political group in the European Parliament Tuesday (21 April), with lawmakers arguing that the best deterrence was to be ready for war.
MEP Tunne Kelam, who chaired the meeting, said that Russia had become the EU’s adversary and that its next target would be the Baltic states. When this happens, the West’s credibility would be put to the test, he warned.
And our vital bodily fluids!!
The EPP is the largest political group in the European Parliament, and the party behind the nomination of Jean-Claude Juncker as President of the European Commission. It has the support of some of Europe's most powerful leaders, including Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor.Renaissance of the West
Freudenstein, who recently co-authored a booklet published by the Martens Centre, The Renaissance of the West, regretted that with all of the awareness of the new Russian threat, Europe's readiness to go to war had not been properly discussed in public.
“That needs to change […] We have to make clear that yes, we are willing to go to war, for what we consider existential principles of Europe’s future,” he said.
"In a stark warning to Europe's doves, Freudenstein said those who still expected a return to "business as usual" with Russia were deluded. He repeated an idea from his booklet The Renaissance of the West, that the conflict with Russia will be over only when Vladimir Putin "leaves the Kremlin in whatever shape".
"This is a zero-sum game," Freudenstein warned, announcing that the Martens Centre had prepared another publication, on how to respond to Russian propaganda, bearing the title, Muzzling the Bear."
Imagine if leading Russian political figures, or the Russian President, started talking about regime change in Washington, Ottawa, London or Paris. It would rightly be construed as a virtual act of war. But when the shoe is on the other foot, fuggetaboutit.
I wonder how many briefcases full of money it took to bring about this positioning.
Um. Slumberjack, that is the people who own the briefcases speaking. The conspiracy theory doesn't actually apply in all cases.
I wonder how many briefcases full of money it took to bring about this positioning.
OK, yes, US influence is important but don't underestimate Europe's own domestic war-mongers. If you look at the Baltic states, for example, there is a brutal disenfranchisement of ethnic Russians and others taking place, while continuing with idiotic sabre-rattling and the movement of NATO troops literally dozens of meters from the border.
European reaction is a star of bigotry in its own right.
I didn't mention where the money would come from. Isn't bribery the way business is normally conducted among allies? European fascism certainly never went away in 1945, that much is clear. Look at Italy's years of lead.
Though in that instance - European fascists - there are briefcases, and connections. What there isn't is the east-west split your theory makes it out to be, neither with the far right parties, nor business interests:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/179963/decrying-ukraines-fascists-putin-al...
Are we dead yet?... 8->
Oh, right.
Poland Builds Up Military Against Russia
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/04/25/pola-a25.html
"The military build-up in Poland and throughout eastern Europe is directed ever more openly at Russia, and increases the risk of a nuclear conflict between Moscow and the NATO powers..."
A recent documentary about the Russian President has revealed that in the early 2000s, the US (spy) agencies were in direct communication with separatists in the North Caucasus [in Russia].
In a new documentary focusing on Vladimir Putin’s 15 years in power, the Russian president says communications intercepted in the early 2000s show direct contacts between North Caucasus separatists and the US secret services."At one point our secret services simply detected direct contacts between militants from the North Caucasus and representatives of the United States secret services in Azerbaijan," Putin said in the film, released by Rossiya 1 TV channel on Sunday.
"And when I spoke about that to the then president of the US, he said... sorry, I will speak plainly, he said, "I'll kick their asses", Putin recounts his conversation with George W. Bush on the issue. A few days later, he says, the heads of Russia's FSB received a letter from their American counterparts, which said they had the right to support opposition forces in Russia.
Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, and Russia was supporting armed groups inside the USA fighting the US government.
I wonder how many briefcases full of money it took to bring about this positioning.OK, yes, US influence is important but don't underestimate Europe's own domestic war-mongers. If you look at the Baltic states, for example, there is a brutal disenfranchisement of ethnic Russians and others taking place, while continuing with idiotic sabre-rattling and the movement of NATO troops literally dozens of meters from the border.
European reaction is a star of bigotry in its own right.
You mean the ethnic Russians that moved in after the USSR took over the Baltics after WWII? (Actually during, but let it go...) I can't possibly imagine why any Estonians, Latvians, or Lithuanians might find that concerning.
Ah, that explains the NATO stormtroopers marching through disenfranchised Russophone neighborhoods in the Baltic states.
Ah, that explains the NATO stormtroopers marching through disenfranchised Russophone neighborhoods in the Baltic states.
The invaders are disenfranchised? What a maroon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
'Strength & Solidarity': US military convoy rolls through Europe
Massive NATO military drills near Russian border underway
Do me a favour and show me where I can find the Russian military convoys along the US border.
bwa ha ha ha. What a maroon.
I wonder how many briefcases full of money it took to bring about this positioning.OK, yes, US influence is important but don't underestimate Europe's own domestic war-mongers. If you look at the Baltic states, for example, there is a brutal disenfranchisement of ethnic Russians and others taking place, while continuing with idiotic sabre-rattling and the movement of NATO troops literally dozens of meters from the border.
European reaction is a star of bigotry in its own right.
Right back atcha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
MEPs Should Be Willing To Wage Nuclear War With Russia
https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/meps-eu-should-be-willing-to...
'Progresssive' cheerleaders of the imperialist warparty should re-evaluate their support in view of where this it leads. Especially over a goofy, US-installed fascist kleptocracy like Ukraine.
Not a bad piece by conservative Paul Craig Roberts on the danger of war from the US and its Canadian and European vassals.
There is little sign that Washington and its vassals care about life on Earth. Recently, the largest political group in the European Parliament–the European People’s Party–expressed a cavalier opinion about life on Earth. We know this, because, if we can trust Euractive, an online EU news source, the majority EU party believes that declaring the EU’s readiness for nuclear war is one of the best steps to deter Russia from further aggression. http://www.unian.info/politics/1070675-meps-believe-eu-should-be-ready-for-nuclear-war.html The aggression to be stopped by Europe’s declaration of its readiness for armageddon is the alleged Russian invasion of Ukraine, and the “further aggression” is Putin’s alleged intention of reestablishing the Soviet Empire.It must be disappointing to the Russian government to see that leaders of the European Union prefer to endorse nuclear war than to challenge Washington’s propaganda.
Stephen Cohen is absolutely right. The feverish Russophobia really is like a heroin addict, unable to function without their Russophobic fix, capable only of repeating the same frothing mantra, and nothing else, over and over again.
Right back atcha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
I guess that makes this OK then, huh?
Latvia Mulls Ghettos for Ethnic Russians
"Well, this petition may be a bit controversial, but from a legal standpoint there is no corpus delicti there,” a Security Police spokesman told LTV7.The petition, already signed by some 1,500 people, was quickly endorsed by notorious Nazi-lover Jānis Iesalnieks, a parliamentary secretary at the Latvian Justice Ministry, who regards fellow Latvians as “true-blue Aryans” and Russians as “undermen” who have no right to live in Latvia.
Right back atcha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_statesI guess that makes this OK then, huh?
Latvia Mulls Ghettos for Ethnic Russians
"Well, this petition may be a bit controversial, but from a legal standpoint there is no corpus delicti there,” a Security Police spokesman told LTV7.The petition, already signed by some 1,500 people, was quickly endorsed by notorious Nazi-lover Jānis Iesalnieks, a parliamentary secretary at the Latvian Justice Ministry, who regards fellow Latvians as “true-blue Aryans” and Russians as “undermen” who have no right to live in Latvia.
Well obviously not. My guess would be that most Latvians are not Nazis.
But I see you are changing the subject from the subjugation of the people of the Baltics for 50 years, and their understandable concern that the Russians might invade them again.
But I see you are changing the subject from the subjugation of the people of the Baltics for 50 years, and their understandable concern that the Russians might invade them again.
Dredging up ancient history like this = "Russophobia". Babble may be explicitly anti-imperialist, but there's a statute of limitations on that. We can't just go pointing fingers over stuff that's just water under the bridge now.
I guess that makes this OK then, huh?Latvia Mulls Ghettos for Ethnic Russians
It wouldn't make ACTUALLY DOING IT acceptable. But it's a petition. California is evidently "mulling" the death penalty for a man who kisses another man.
See how it sounds a thousand times more sinister when I say that California is "mulling" it -- like they're maybe going to actually institute this, and it's all but a done deal -- rather than being honest and saying "a small handful of cranks has started a petition".
But I see you are changing the subject from the subjugation of the people of the Baltics for 50 years, and their understandable concern that the Russians might invade them again.
Let me address this moronic claim once more. The Russians spent more on the Sochi Olympics than the Latvian (or Lithuanian or Estonian) GDP amounts to. The Russians would gain what, exactly? Or is this like the "Russian invasion" of Ukraine, for which zero evidence needs to be provided?
Damn, what a rocket scientist you are. Try again. Let's go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really add up.
Let me address this moronic claim once more. The Russians spent more on the Sochi Olympics than the Latvian (or Lithuanian or Estonian) GDP amounts to. The Russians would gain what, exactly?
So... it never happened then?
Or what's your point? That it did happen, but was a financially poor decision?
wow. Obtuse Magoo. We were discussing ... the present. As in, the enormous NATO military build up is necessary due to the "imminent threat of a Russian invasion".
I ask again, for all you goddam rocket scientists: what would Russia gain by such an invasion? They spent more on the Sochi Olympics that the GDP of any and all the Baltic states.
These dubious claims can be refuted by children. Here, let me tie an arm behind my back.
In January 2015, the Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, in consultation with its Board of Sponsors, which includes seventeen Nobel laureates, reset its “doomsday clock” by moving it two minutes closer to midnight, to 11:57. The clock has been this close to midnight only three times before: (1) in 1949, when the USSR initiated its first atomic bomb test and Truman publicly announced the beginning of the nuclear arms race, (2) in 1953, when both the United States and the USSR engaged in above-ground hydrogen bomb testing (and the clock actually moved to two minutes to midnight), and (3) in 1984, when the Reagan administration massively escalated the arms race against the Soviets. Since 2007 the danger symbolized by the clock has included not just the possibility of global nuclear conflagration but also planetary climate change. Its metaphorical message is clear: the world is presently on a course of suicidal destructivity (American Association for the Advancement of Science, Science Insider, “Bulletin of Atomic Scientists Moves Doomsday Clock 2 Minutes Closer to Midnight,” January 22, 2015, http://news.sciencemag.org).
I know, I know, just stick your fingers in your ears, la la la la, ...
wow. Obtuse Magoo. We were discussing ... the present. As in, the enormous NATO military build up is necessary due to the "imminent threat of a Russian invasion".
Ah, righty-ho then. I think I covered that with:
Babble may be explicitly anti-imperialist, but there's a statute of limitations on that.
Let's let bygones be bygones, amiright?
I ask again, for all you goddam rocket scientists: what would Russia gain by such an invasion?
Why the speculation? Why not just ring up Vlad and ask him what Russia DID (or didn't) gain by it?
Again I'll ask, did this actually happen? Or are Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia just makin' shit up?
But I see you are changing the subject from the subjugation of the people of the Baltics for 50 years, and their understandable concern that the Russians might invade them again.Let me address this moronic claim once more. The Russians spent more on the Sochi Olympics than the Latvian (or Lithuanian or Estonian) GDP amounts to. The Russians would gain what, exactly? Or is this like the "Russian invasion" of Ukraine, for which zero evidence needs to be provided?
Damn, what a rocket scientist you are. Try again. Let's go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really add up.
Are you actually claiming that the USSR never invaded the Baltics? As the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
And no, I'm not a rocket scientist, although I think I could play one on TV.
ikosmos: Are you arguing that no country would invade a country with a much smaller economy? Is that really what you're case for Russian benignity rests on? Because I'm pretty sure that East Timor and the Falkland Islands(not a country per se, but same basic logic applies) were pretty insignificant, economically speaking, when compared with Indonesia and Argentina respectively.
ikosmos: Are you arguing that no country would invade a country with a much smaller economy? Is that really what you're case for Russian benignity rests on? Because I'm pretty sure that East Timor and the Falkland Islands(not a country per se, but same basic logic applies) were pretty insignificant, economically speaking, when compared with Indonesia and Argentina respectively.
Much smaller economy is an understatement. The Russian Federation spent more on a large sporting event than the entire economy of any of those states. And they are all members of the predatory NATO military alliance, i.e., they can rely on the militaries of other NATO member states.
So what would Russia gain again by an invasion? I'm not hearing much of a reply other than a claim that I'm referring to events 70 years ago.
Sure, they have an interest in not seeing the creation of Russophone ghettos, but they're pretty well limited to diplomatic objections over that or when the Latvians decide to honour their Nazi predecessors with a parade glorifying the Waffen SS.
Is the EU Backing Nuclear War on Russia?
http://counterpunch.org/2015/04/28/is-the-eu-backing-nuclear-war-on-russia/
"Insanity grips the western world."
So what would Russia gain again by an invasion?
What did they get the first time?
The Russian Federation spent more on a large sporting event than the entire economy of any of those states.
No doubt. Which doesn't lend a whole lot of credibility to the idea that if one of these puny fleas holds a parade "metres from" the big dog, then WWIII must be just around the corner.
