Federal election thread -- August 4, 2015

epaulo13 wrote:

..i don't see any evidence that we have any option in the matter. harper just appointed a pipeline consultant to the neb. canada is not being given an option. the die is cast. the global resource extraction group want it the way they want. if they don't get it that way they will just apply more pressure. the ndp will not control global forces. i've been listening to see if they condem the appointment but so far i haven't heard. it didn't come up in debate. and there's this:  Canada’s premiers agreed to a master energy and climate change plan July 17. It’s specific on fast-tracking pipelines, but “aspirational” on climate action.

eta: no option other than resistance.

..important video from a previous post.

Grand Chief warns of confrontation between RCMP and Unist'ot'en

Unionist wrote:

quizzical wrote:

thanks....paraphrased what i would've responded but on it.

I see. What about GHG emissions? Does that factor into "environmentally friendly"? Or just spills?

Quote:

i would also say we wouldn't have to  "buy" our petroleum from Venezuala. it could be province to province trade agreements. oil we buy and ship in is paid for in US dollars. why make the US rich, or actually pay off their debt, when we can keep  the money here with cross Canada trade?

Yes of course, the carbon footprint of refined bitumen is so much larger that refined crude.

Unionist wrote:

quizzical wrote:

thanks....paraphrased what i would've responded but on it.

I see. What about GHG emissions? Does that factor into "environmentally friendly"? Or just spills?

So quizzical, just to be very specific, I'm talking about the extraction process - which is what Linda McQuaig was talking about when she warned about the impact on climate change (before she was required to "clarify" her comments). Transporting the stuff is an additional danger of course, whether by water, rail, or pipeline.

Pembina Institute wrote:

Average greenhouse gas emissions for oilsands extraction and upgrading are estimated to be 3.2 to 4.5 times as intensive per barrel as for conventional crude oil produced in Canada or the United States.

We all should remember that only 4 of the infamous "Group of 34" who knifed Andrea Horwath were actually members of the NDP.

This initiative was very likely inspired by Liberal sympathizers. I suspect the mumblings about Tom come from a similar source. It would be interesting to figure out who the Energy East protestors are.

We a should also remember that although Kathleen Wynne postured as being to the left of Andrea, once she got her majority she has governed as a conservative - austerity and selling Hydro and electoral dirty tricks.

nicky wrote:

It would be interesting to figure out who the Energy East protestors are.

Maybe CSIS could help. They've been keeping track of radical environmental types.

Also, here's a [url=http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/west-east-pipeline]babble thread[/url] that was opened in November 2012 to praise Mulcair's support for Energy East:

Quote:

It looks like Mulcair's support for an east west pipeline is bearing fruit, a win for Mulcair and s defeat for Harper's vision to export jobs out of Canada.

If you sift through the posts, you can find lots of naysayers, reports of mass protests and demos, etc., obviously intended to knife Mulcair in the back.

Seek and ye shall find!

The  Liberal internal dogfight in Vancouver over Justin's "open" nomination process continues to grow, directly impacting the ridings of Steveston-Richmond East, Vancouver East, Vancouver Kingsway, and Vancouver South, and threatening to affect Liberal chances elsewhere in Vancouver. Since virtually no one expects the Liberals to win any ridings outside Metro Vancouver in BC, this is a major problem for the federal Liberals in BC during this election and with one of its major target populations - Vancouver Chinese. 

Wendy Yuan claims she was denied the right to run for the nomination in Steveston-Richmond East without any explanation despite her having run for the party in 2008 and 2011 and despite having signed up 6,000 members for the party over the years. She also claims to have signed up 3,000 new members in the last two years alone in preparatlon for challenging for the nomination in this riding. 

Yuan also claims in sworn affidavits that former Liberal cabinet minister Raymond Chan blocked her candidacy and could have personally profited as Justin Trudeau's chief BC organizer in the local Chinese community.

Quote:

Wendy Yuan told a large crowd of supporters gathered at the Sheraton Vancouver Airport in Richmond that she was shocked on learning last Friday that the party would not be green-lighting her nomination for Steveston-Richmond East.

FileWendy Yuan, pictured with Justin Trudeau, before she was declared unsuitable.

Yuan, who has twice been green-lit by the party for election runs that ultimately proved unsuccessful, claimed this was because the process had been interfered with, an allegation she said was supported by a sworn affidavit that was sent to her by another party member.

“I have received a sworn affidavit from a party member which clearly spells out interference with the party green light process by one of our leader’s advisers, and his name his Raymond Chan,” Yuan told the sign-waving crowd. ...

Chan, who was first elected to Ottawa as the Richmond MP in 1993, served in cabinet under both Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien. He lost the 2008 election to the Conservative’s Alice Wong.

The affidavit, a copy of which was provided to The Province, details an alleged conversation between Chan and a Xigen (Howard) Xu on May 16 in a lounge on the second floor at the Terminal City Club. Xu alleges he met with Chan to discuss campaign issues.

“Raymond said to me: Howard, good news, soon I will have Wendy Yuan disqualified,” the affidavit reads. “I asked “How?” He replied: “I will make sure Wendy does not pass the green light.” He went on by saying “the Italian guy named Joe Preschisolido [sic] is going to be acclaimed.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/liberal-feud-...

Joe Peschisolido (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Peschisolido) has went from being a Liberal to a Reform to a Canadian Alliance to a Liberal member, and was elected as a Canadian Alliance MP. Such a "progressive" indicates the Liberals and Cons are not that far apart on the political spectrum.

On Tuesday, Yuan and her supporters protested outside Peschiolido's Liberal nomination meeting from which she was barred. 

http://www.straight.com/news/505486/wendy-yuan-supporters-plan-protest-o...

This has led to a large number of resignations within the Liberals in BC, including Mike Hillman.

Quote:

Mike Hillman has quit as membership chair for the Liberal Party of Canada in B.C. over the "unfathomable" decision to blockformer Liberal candidate Wendy Yuan from running for the Steveston–Richmond East nomination.

In a letter to LPCBC president Braeden Caley and dated today (August 11), Hillman states:

The decision by this Party to not allow a former candidate in 2 past elections stand before the membership of the Party in the riding of Steveston-Richmond East is, to me, unfathomable.

As Membership Chair for the LPC in BC, I view the decision as being contrary to the right of members in a specific riding to make their choice on the important decision of who should be their candidate. Members have a right to vote and that right must be respected and held high in our Party as a base democratic right of, and obligation we have, to all our members.

On top of this, the decision simply walks away from an individual who has worked tirelessly for this Party and brought thousands of members and dollars to our Party. I just cannot believe we can treat a member, or any member, with such total disregard.

http://www.straight.com/news/505771/liberal-party-executive-mike-hillman...

The executive of the Vancouver South Liberals have also resigned over alleged problems with Chan. Howare Xu, a Liberal campaign manager, claims in a sworn affidavit that two Liberal candidates, Edward Wong in Vancouver East and Steven Kou in Vancouver Kingsway, both told him that Raymond Chan was asking candidates for $10,000 each for a three minute speech by him.

As noted in post #162, the executive of the Vancouver South Liberals have also resigned over alleged problems with Chan. Howare Xu, a Liberal campaign manager, claims in a sworn affidavit that two Liberal candidates, Edward Wong in Vancouver East and Steven Kou in Vancouver Kingsway, both told him that Raymond Chan was asking candidates for $10,000 each for a three minute speech by him.

Quote:

Yuan noted the party had successfully vetted her twice before. Late Monday night she issued another statement:

"I fail to see how my application this time differs from that of the last two elections I stood for. . . .They are trying to pick faults, if any, in order to shut me down and cover-up for a more devious reason. That devious reason, many believe, has everything to do with the fact that I wrote to the Party officials and raised my concern about one of LPCBC's fundraising sources in the Chinese community," wrote Yuan.

Notably, in another affidavit, whistleblower Howard Xu claims Chan asked Vancouver-area candidates Edward Wong and Steven Kou for $10,000 donations in order to give speeches. "I will respect the person who did the affidavit," Yuan told media.

Chan was present at Richmond Centre candidate Lawrence Woo's inaugural media address in March. He could not be reached for comment via Woo's manager.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/rnr/5169364181.html

Yuan denies that she misrepresented her resume to the Liberal riding association anc claims that this was just an excuse to bar her from running in the Steveston-East Richmond riding, even though she had signed up 3,000 of its 4,000 members because she had raised concerns about former Liberal cabinet minister Raymond Chan's fundraising process in which he had asked for $10,000 for himself for a three minute speech at Liberal riding meetings.

Quote:

A Liberal party source told The Canadian Press that Yuan's application was stopped partway through the vetting process after it became apparent she had allegedly misrepresented elements of her resume.

Yuan said she hoped the party wasn't trying to shift the focus away from the real reason for her disqualification. She said she brought up concerns with the party over what she called questionable fundraising techniques used by former Liberal MP Raymond Chan, which she believes may have played a role in her nomination upset.

Along with protest resignations by local riding executives, longtime Liberal party organizer Mike Hillman stepped down as membership chairman for B.C. over what he called an "unfathomable" move on the part of the party's green-light committee to oust Yuan.

Hillman has been involved with the Liberals since 1968 and has served in various leadership capacities, including two terms as the party's national vice-president for English. He was Yuan's campaign chairman.

Hillman said he can't understand how the party could treat someone with such disregard, especially after Yuan's work to register thousands of new party members.

"You don't keep somebody … on a string, working hard to build a team and build membership, when in the end you're going to walk away from them," he said in an interview on Wednesday. "That's not the right way to do it."

Hillman called Yuan "absolutely solid" and referred to her contributions to the party as "tremendous."

Yuan signed up close to 3,000 new members — a significant portion of the roughly 4,000 registered in the riding, said Hillman.

For her part, Yuan said she was "very disappointed" by the decision.

"The immediate thing that came to my head was the 3,000 members. I said, 'How am I going to tell them?'" she said. "They trusted the system and they had faith."

http://www.timescolonist.com/ousted-liberal-hopeful-denies-misrepresenti...

“How is New Brunswick going to be able to attract and retain top-level medical doctors when they’re going to be told, ‘Oh, by the way, our tax rate is now going to be close to 60 per cent?’”

Thank you, Mr. Harper. I mean, Mr. Mulcair.

NOW magazine has added their voice to the concern over NDP environmental policy

NDP Fizzles

Mulcair disappointed on a few key issues, like the proposed Energy East pipeline, which he said could be a "win-win-win." Many expect more from the man who used to be the Quebec's environment minister, a job title he reminded the audience of several times. Mulcair did talk up the polluter-pays principle along with the fact that he added the right to a clean environment to Quebec charter back in 06. But he's also making a big deal of coming across as oil-sands-friendly. As York U environmental studies Prof Mark Winfield says, "He may have been trying to hard to be a moderate, (and) in the process may have lost environmentally concerned voters, particularly among younger demographics, to the Greens and even the Liberals"

Printed in this week's Now Magazine (Aug 13-19, 2015) page 20

No link available, I transcribed this blurb from Now Magazine.

That's an odd comment to make about losing voters. The Greens are the lowest in the polls they've been in a while, and the NDP has had solid support among young people since 2011. I think people can do the math on "polluter pay" and "carbon pricing" and "thorough environmental review" and conclude the environment will be protected under the NDP.

terrytowel wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Nobody outside Toronto cares what NOW says, and most people in Toronto don't care either.

There are 25 seats in the GTA. You can bet the Liberals and NDP do care.

Yeah well, last year NOW wholeheartedly supported Olivia Chow for mayor and condemned John Tory every step of the way. If NOW is that influential, why isn't she mayor now?

If you are worried about Mulcair doing the Obama-like "we'll see what a thorough environmental review says" about Energy East, I can't see how that helps the Liberals get more Toronto seats when Trudeau was actively promoting Keystone XL in his U.S. visit.

I will go out on a limb and predict that the Greens will get no more than 3 or 4% of the vote across Toronto...and quite frankly if they do pick up some teeny-weeny number of votes over Energy East (and i'm highly sceptical that they will) its as likely to come from people who would otherwise vote Liberal as NDP. Last year we had a byelection in Trinity-Spadina - A BYELECTION - you know where people can freely cast a single issue protest vote and not take any risk - and the Greens spend a small fortune and attacked the NDP for seeming open to Energy East and attacking the Liberals for being pro-Keystone XL...and they got a whopping 4% of the vote - barely ahead of the Libertarian.

4-5% is the floor for the Greens. Those aren't voters anyone can get. Their second choice to voting green is staying home.

It's a bum theory from a low influence magazine that isn't worth repeating.

socialdemocraticmiddle wrote:

4-5% is the floor for the Greens. Those aren't voters anyone can get. Their second choice to voting green is staying home.

It's a bum theory from a low influence magazine that isn't worth repeating.

Its actually not even a "bum theory" from NOW. Its a bum theory from terrytowel

josh wrote:

Where did I ever say that people should vote Liberal?

If you criticize Mulcair, you must be a Liberal. Babble 101.

This is why I would like to see Mulcair in the consortium debate with Trudeau even though Harper won't be there. It will provide more one on one for Mulcair to expose the vulnerabilities and hollowness of the Liberal platform. If he is successful, he can cause a total collapse for the Liberals and possibly pull off a majority. I think the debate improved dramatically when he went after Trudeau directly.

josh wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

josh wrote:

“How is New Brunswick going to be able to attract and retain top-level medical doctors when they’re going to be told, ‘Oh, by the way, our tax rate is now going to be close to 60 per cent?’”

Thank you, Mr. Harper. I mean, Mr. Mulcair.

I don't like that comment either, but I also don't consider it a valid reason to publicly condemn the NDP, and suggest that people should vote Liberal instead.

Where did I ever say that people should vote Liberal? NDP candidates are generally more progressive. However, when it comes to Mulcair and Trudeau, it's 6 of one and a half a dozen of the other.

.

I'm sorry, I guess you didn't, and I wasn't really trying to say that you did. I was more commenting on the earlier discussion of the Globe article which suggested that maybe some lefties should get together and organize a public denunciation of Mulcair. Again, sorry for not being clear.

terrytowel wrote:

And in the same by-election for the riding of MacLeod the Greens BEAT the NDP for third spot with 5% of the vote up +0.81. While the NDP went down −6.11

That was pre-Orange Chinook, y'know?

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Chris, the MSM is so Pathetic. Bruce Anderson on the CBC said tonight the NDP better not run as a governemtn in waiting or "they'll look arrogant and old school". What's he want them to do, say vote LPC, we aren't ready. It was pathetic. I tweeted him. For what its worth,Chantal Heibert wasn't having any part of it, and gave her impressions as she called them saying Mulcair and Trudeau weren't hurt by the debate, and that Harper was looking weak. I hate that panel, but at least, Hebert by ignoring Anderson kind of gave him a slap with the back of her hand, so to speak. G-d I just hate how this election is being covered by the MSN Epecially that Althia Raj, what a LPC shill. The last thing she is is a "journalist".

There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Notley schooled Prentice on that.

60% of votes are still up for grabs despite what the polls are saying. Mulcair sending the message that he is the only choice other than Harper may well lead people to let him know that there is another option.

Wow.  Very gutsy move.  The fact that they're running such a high profile candidate in Eglinton-Lawrence is something I never would have guessed.  And the fact that it is a direct challenge to Joe Oliver and his role as Finance Minister via having a former finance minister of Saskatchewan, Andrew Thompson, run, is mind blowing.  Eglinton-Lawrence?  I went to a riding association meeting several months ago, and there were about six people there.  There was a rumour of someone high-profile considering it, but I never would have guessed this.

No one thought Outremont was winnable either.  Or Alberta.  So, maybe Eglinton-Lawrence.

 He took his orders from Premier Calvert, its Calvert who set the policies.

 This has has to piss the Liberals off, as if Eve Adams wasn't nightmare enough.

Olivia Chow’s flip-flop on the Scarborough subway

http://m.torontosun.com/2015/08/14/chow-flip-flops-on-scarborough-subway

josh wrote:

Misfit wrote:

I read up on him in Wikipedia, and his actions as Finance minister in Saskatchewan seemed rather too fiscally conservative for me.

No wonder Mulcair sought him out.

But how does he feel about Israel?