Trans Pacific Partnership and Election

Tue, 2015-10-06 10:31

josh

Mighty AC wrote:

I don't have the details on internet censoship yet, but the TPP turned out not to be the disaster for the dairy and auto sector that it was forecasted to be; so that's a good thing. Unfortunately, Tom is thundering on as if it were. Is this dishonest approach just a desperate effort to shore up his plumetting poll figures by hopefullly stealing back some of the far support left gobbled up by Trudeau?

I'm not in favour of giving more power to corporations and plutocrats. I don't like the idea of multinationals suing our government in secret courts if our laws restrict their future profits. When there are aspects of the deal that desesrve real criticism, why is Tom focusing on something he now knows to be fictitious? This will hurt his credibility...among those that pay attention at least.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada-election-2015-tpp-trans-pacific-partnershi...

Not one word from a representative of workers. What a surprise.

Tue, 2015-10-06 10:39

#103

Mighty AC

josh wrote:
Not one word from a representative of workers. What a surprise.

The Dairy Farmers of Canada and Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association both commented. This deal will not be a problem for their sectors. Yet, Tom is carrying on as if all the doom and gloom predicted for these sectors was actually realized. I find that dishonesty to be far too Harper like.

Why not shift gears and attack the many actual problems, like the new power corporations have over governments?

Tue, 2015-10-06 10:44

#104

josh

Quote:
The secrecy around which auto sector concessions Canada granted to reach a Trans-Pacific Partnership deal has stakeholders in southwestern Ontario concerned about the industry’s future amid the heat of the final days of a close-fought federal election.

Unifor, which represents Canadian auto plant workers from General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, issued a press release Monday claiming that the deal could mean the loss of 20,000 Canadian automotive jobs. The union pointed the finger at two key reported details of the deal: the lowering of content rules for auto parts and the elimination of tariffs.

However, the text of the deal has not been released and it’s not possible to be certain of exactly what will be gained or sacrificed for the auto sector until the deal is made public.

That uncertainty isn’t comforting to the thousands of auto workers in Windsor who are already either out of work or facing an uncertain future as their industry continues to adjust to the post-recession economy — and anything that rocks the boat could easily make things worse, one federal candidate says.

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/10/05/lack-of-detail-around-tpp-auto-concession...

Tue, 2015-10-06 10:46

#105

josh

Mighty AC wrote:

josh wrote:
Not one word from a representative of workers. What a surprise.

The Dairy Farmers of Canada and Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association both commented. This deal will not be a problem for their sectors. Yet, Tom is carrying on as if all the doom and gloom predicted for these sectors was actually realized. I find that dishonesty to be far too Harper like.

Why not shift gears and attack the many actual problems, like the new power corporations have over governments?

I said no representative of the workers commented. And your last sentence is an example of delicious irony.

Tue, 2015-10-06 11:16

#106

Mighty AC

It seems the roughly 80k auto sector employees are about evenly split between companies that will potentially benefit and potentially be harmed.

Tue, 2015-10-06 11:22

#107

jjuares

Joeseph Stiglitz and Robert Reich have both spoken against the TPP. Do the research and screw up your courage NDP. Here is your chance to change the arc of this election.

Tue, 2015-10-06 11:36

#108

KarlL

As a Liberal, I had been concerned about the political implications of the TPP for the obvious polarization reasons but I wonder if the Conservatives have played their hand properly. Yes they get some late in the game points on economic management but they have softened the blow so much that I don't know whether it is contentious enough to sustain them (and the NDP critique on the other pole) through next week.

I know that it switches the channel for a few days from "change" to economic management but I do question whether that is enough for them given that they need a majority in order to survive.

It's early days, on this file at least, but I am less concerned than I was in advance.

Tue, 2015-10-06 12:10

#109

mark_alfred

I gather the TPP is a good deal for big pharma, meaning it could kill any move toward pharmacare.

Tue, 2015-10-06 13:14

#110

kropotkin1951

What a flipping joke. I and others on the left have been railing against the NDP's acceptance of corporate rights agreements for years. I don't know how many times I have heard NDP party hacks say that free trade is not a thing to oppose or run on reversing Its just realpolitics you know. Since the MSM are always in favour how can you oppose it with out being beat up and looking like your anti-trade. It seems many NDP partisans now think it is not a losing issue but a winning issue. Too bad it will only make the NDP look like a party willing to say anything to get elected.

I'm still waiting for one of the partisans to explain how you say TPP is bad compared to the corporate rights deals the NDP has supported. Hell you don't even know whats in it and since you have given up on the principle that these corporate rights agreement are all bad and need recinding what is your argument against it? We think it is going to be really bad not like other deals.

Tue, 2015-10-06 13:50

#111

mark_alfred

I'm not aware that the NDP supported a large number of trade deals. It's not something I follow. But, from what I hear from Jerry Dias, this deal may be a bad one for Canada's auto sector. Apparently the USA maintain a tariff with Japan for 25 years, whereas Canada for only six (I think, assuming I heard correctly).

Tue, 2015-10-06 14:03

#112

Unionist

Debating/condemning the TPP now is playing right into Harper's hands. Especially given what kropotkin and many others have said about the NDP's acquiescence in, if not outright support for, sell-out "trade" deals in the past.

The niqab and the TPP. Maybe add in the Senate and bank fees and floor-crossing legislation...

So go for it, folks. It isn't over till it's... oh wait, it might be.

Tue, 2015-10-06 14:15

#113

josh

The TPP is a monster deal. This is not an agreement with Jordan or Honduras. If the NDP can't pounce on this, especially with the threat to auto workers in Ontario, they might as well fold their tent.

Tue, 2015-10-06 14:16

#114

quizzical

oh you just joined to tell us your view? lol

Tue, 2015-10-06 15:15

#115

jjuares

josh wrote:

The TPP is a monster deal. This is not an agreement with Jordan or Honduras. If the NDP can't pounce on this, especially with the threat to auto workers in Ontario, they might as well fold their tent.

With the other parties simply willing to sign on in seems the least the NDP could do is oppose it so people at least have some idea of why they are about to lose their job. I don't know how it will shake out politically, it may seem desperate and lose votes. But there can be no doubt that the membership of the party hates this deal. Maybe instead of going with political calculation ( and I am not so sure it will hurt the party's prospects at all) maybe the party could listen to the membership stand with the unions and fight this.

Tue, 2015-10-06 15:19

#116

josh

NDP has nothing to lose at this point. If they were in first, there would be a different political calculation. But in third, this makes sense politically as well as substantively.

Tue, 2015-10-06 15:47

#117

jjuares

josh wrote:

NDP has nothing to lose at this point. If they were in first, there would be a different political calculation. But in third, this makes sense politically as well as substantively.

Yes, here are some other dynamics. As the terms of the deal become known the Liberal position of we will look at it after the election gets less tenable. However, it could still end up fine for them if the terms are widely seen to be good for Canada or the issue does not become so prominent. If I were a Liberal operative I would now be wishing this deal hadn't be signed for a couple of weeks if for no other reason that it drops a potential wild card into an election which had been going well for the Liberals.

Tue, 2015-10-06 16:04

#118

NDPP

US-Dominated Trade Pact Agreed

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/06/tppt-o06.html

"...While the details of the TPP document still remain hidden from public view, there is no doubt about its central thrust. It seeks to dismantle all barriers and regulatory restrictions of Asia-Pacific markets by US conglomerates, especially in banking, finance, insurance, retail, IT, media, entertainment and pharmaceuticals.

Giving a hint of the yet-unseen 'ugly compromises' that could fuel domestic opposition, New Zealand Trade Minister Tim Groser told New Zealand's Western Herald that negotiators had to 'swallow dead rats on three or four issues to get this deal across the line.'..."

#NoTpp

https://twitter.com/hashtag/NoTpp?src=hash&lang=eng

Tue, 2015-10-06 16:08

#119

Michael Moriarity

Does anyone know when we actually get to see the text of the agreement? Does it remain secret until after all the signatories have voted ratification? That's Orwellian enough to be true.

Tue, 2015-10-06 16:22

#120

KarlL

No they'd have to reveal any domestic adjustments in the parliamentary ratification process. I think one of the reasons that it is not available is that they are still drafting the thing and that yesterday's agreement was only in principle with lawyers detailed to provide a text thereafter.

Tue, 2015-10-06 17:01

#121

jjuares

KarlL wrote:

No they'd have to reveal any domestic adjustments in the parliamentary ratification process. I think one of the reasons that it is not available is that they are still drafting the thing and that yesterday's agreement was only in principle with lawyers detailed to provide a text thereafter.

Plus if they are arranging a simultaneous release in all countries the documents will have to be translated.

Tue, 2015-10-06 17:07

#122

KarlL

jjuares wrote:
KarlL wrote:

No they'd have to reveal any domestic adjustments in the parliamentary ratification process. I think one of the reasons that it is not available is that they are still drafting the thing and that yesterday's agreement was only in principle with lawyers detailed to provide a text thereafter.

Plus if they are arranging a simultaneous release in all countries the documents will have to be translated.

That makes a lot of sense.

Tue, 2015-10-06 18:01

#123

NDPP

TPP Deal: Why So Much Secrecy? (and podcast)

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/317781-tpp-treaty-deal-us/

"This treaty may turn out to be kind of a 'killer.'

Tue, 2015-10-06 20:27

#124

NDPP

CTV: Danny Williams - Voters 'Can't Trust' Harper on TPP (and vid)

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/danny-williams-voters-can-t-trust-harper-...

Oct 5, 2015 - TPP Deal Reached But Who Wins & Who Loses (podcast)

http://everythingispolitical.ca/episodes/2015/10/6/october-5-2015-trans-...

"Perrin Beatty, Jerry Dias, Michelle Rempel, Ralph Goodale, Peggy Nash, Will Stewart, Bob Richardson, Marit Stiles."

The Canadian Government Misleads the Public on the TPP Copyright Provisions

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/10/is-the-canadian-government-misleading...

"Lost in the coverage are the copyright and privacy implications of the deal."

Tue, 2015-10-06 20:50

#125

NDPP

TPP: IT'S NOT A DEAL, IT'S NOT A TRADE DEAL, AND IT'S NOT A DONE DEAL (and vid)

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/tpp-its-not-a-deal-its-not-a-trad...

"...Of course nothing has been 'signed', and the deal has neither been 'reached', 'sealed', 'struck' or 'agreed.' At best, what we have is a deal to try and make a deal; these headlines and the mentality of the writers and editors, are all profoundly anti-democratic.

TPP Is Not (Yet) A Deal

TPP Is Not A Trade Deal

TPP is a campaign, and TTP/TTIP/TISA are a WAR..."

*Full Translation Of Japanese Government's Summary of the TPP*

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/full-translation-of-japanese-gove...

Wed, 2015-10-07 15:06

#126

NDPP

'Threat To Democracy': 3 Million Europeans Sign Petition Against TTIP

https://www.rt.com/uk/317888-stop-ttip-petition-european/

"Anti-TTIP activists have submitted a 3 million signature petition to the European Commission in London and Brussels in a bid to halt secret trade negotiations between the EU, US and Canada. The petition also calls for a halt to the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) between the EU and Canada, a parallel trade deal currently awaiting ratification.

Activists argue CETA includes a similar ISDS clause that will enable corporations to take legal actions against governments which seek to restrict their profit..."

TTIP is one of the '3Ts' of which TTP is one. As usual, there is far more awareness and activism in Europe than here in sleepy hollow.

Wed, 2015-10-07 15:11

#127

josh

Quote:

The way to begin any discussion of the Trans-Pacific Partnership is with a simple question:

Where does this sweeping global trade deal rest power—with the people and their elected representatives in the United States and eleven other Pacific-rim countries, or with the multinational corporations that have been empowered by every previous trade deal of this kind?

The answer, if history is any indication, and if reports on the secretive agreement are accurate, is that the power will rest with the corporations.

http://www.thenation.com/article/tpp-prioritizes-rights-of-corporations-...

Wed, 2015-10-07 17:17

#128

jjuares

Clinton has just come out against TPP

Wed, 2015-10-07 17:23

#129

mark_alfred

That could help give legitimacy to Mulcair's opposition. And it could further establish the reputation of Trudeau as a wishy-washy stand-for-nothing panderer.

Wed, 2015-10-07 17:35

#130

jjuares

mark_alfred wrote:

That could help give legitimacy to Mulcair's opposition. And it could further establish the reputation of Trudeau as a wishy-washy stand-for-nothing panderer.

Absolutely. Clinton is no socialist. She is against for other reasons than Mulcair. He has to broaden his assault on this deal to get any traction.

Wed, 2015-10-07 17:53

#131

josh

jjuares wrote:
Clinton has just come out against TPP

She qualified it by saying "right now" and "have to actually see it." With the Clintons, you have to look at the fine print.

Wed, 2015-10-07 18:10

#132

NDPP

TPP Agreement Can Be Rejected By New Government, Says Privy Council Office

http://www.hilltimes.com/news/2015/10/06/tpp-agreement-can-be-rejected-b...

"The agreement has not yet been signed,' said department spokesperson Amy Mills. 'As is standard practice in all trade negotiations, once the legal review, translation and other technical work is complete, the final agreed upon text will be prepared for official signature.

After official signing, Canada and its TPP partners will go through their respective domestic processes to ratify and implement the TPP Agreement.'

Mr Rivet confirmed in the email exchange with The Hill TImes that the government will ultimately table the treaty in the House of Commons, before it is ratified by Cabinet, with a 21 day waiting period for MPs to review its details, and the chance for an opposition motion and non-binding vote..."

Wed, 2015-10-07 18:15

#133

JKR

Unionist wrote:

Debating/condemning the TPP now is playing right into Harper's hands. Especially given what kropotkin and many others have said about the NDP's acquiescence in, if not outright support for, sell-out "trade" deals in the past.

The niqab and the TPP. Maybe add in the Senate and bank fees and floor-crossing legislation...

So go for it, folks. It isn't over till it's... oh wait, it might be.

Hard as it is to believe, the contrived issue over the niqab seems to be the strongest factor in this election. It may not be an appropriate parallel to make but today I've kept thinking about what it was like to live in Germany in the early 30's. Harper and the Conservatives may win this election by sinking this low but he and his party will hopefully regret having gone into the gutter just win an election. Canada is being tested by this. Hopefully by Election Day Canadians will punish Harper and the Conservatives at the ballot box for having been willing to sew the seeds of division and hatred for power.

Wed, 2015-10-07 18:22

#134

jjuares

josh wrote:
jjuares wrote:
Clinton has just come out against TPP

She qualified it by saying "right now" and "have to actually see it." With the Clintons, you have to look at the fine print.

Agreed but she is laying down a marker that will be hard but not a mpossible to step back from.

Wed, 2015-10-07 19:11

#135

Northern PoV

I think the Clinton opposition is more about her own polling showing her losing in the early primaries ... right now to Bernie Sanders. I am sure she will find reasons to change her position .. if she survives.

Mulcair's position looks to me like politics and represents holding his base in a failing centrist campaign, not his own views. (What he said pre-campaign, hence the flip-flop accusations now). If Mulcair still enjoyed the numbers he had back in August, he would be making Trudeau-like neutral-pro statements and were he to lead the gov't in that scenario he would soon do what JC did in 1993 and cave to the business crowd on Corporate Rights Agreements … oh, sorry I mean Free Trade.

Wed, 2015-10-07 19:43

#136

jerrym

The Council of Canadians has explained how TPP harms Canadians and other citizens of its member countries on a broad range of fronts beyond the dairy and auto sectors as this corporate rights deal severely narrows the ability of these citizens to counteract corporate actions that are against the general public interest.

Quote:

Of the 26 chapters currently being negotiated in the TPP, only two have to do with trade. The other 24 deal with issues as diverse as how a government regulates corporate activity, what Crown corporations can and cannot do, how long pharmaceutical patents or copyright terms should be, how the Internet is governed, the sharing of personal information across borders, banking and taxation rules, and when a company or investor should be compensated when environmental or public health policies interfere with profits.

The TPP is also considered a geopolitical weapon of the U.S. government, which is trying to isolate China in the Asia-Pacific region, and to block alternative, and more successful, forms of development than the “free trade” model has to offer. But the TPP is being resisted by people across all participating countries because of how it will lock-in a myopic type of corporate globalization that is the main cause of runaway climate change and which has done little to create good, sustainable jobs or reduce poverty worldwide. People working across borders fought and defeated the Free Trade Area of the Americas. Our goal is to make sure the TPP suffers the same fate.

The TPP directly threatens:

Public health and access to medicines: The U.S. is using the TPP to push for excessive patent protections and other intellectual property rights that are guaranteed to make medication much more expensive in Canada and even inaccessible to the poorest countries involved in the negotiations. Across the world, health advocates claim it is a matter of life and death that we say no to these changes in the TPP.

Environmental protection measures: The TPP will include an environment chapter that U.S. negotiators would like to be enforceable. But the 11 other TPP countries, including Canada, object to the idea that protecting the environment is as important as protecting corporations from government regulation. The reality is the TPP cannot and does not pretend to help reduce emissions or protect the earth. It will however put a screen on all environmental policies to make sure they do not hurt trade and investment. The only winner from this situation is climate change.

Access to knowledge and the open Internet: The U.S. wants TPP countries to change their copyright laws in ways that restrict the open Internet, make it illegal to circumvent digital locks on copyrighted material even for non-infringing purposes, stifle innovation, raise the prices of books, CDs and movies, and reduce economic opportunities to businesses, creators and the public. The dream of a democratic world-wide web is fading but still there. The TPP would make the dream much harder to realize.

Community-led public policy: Like NAFTA, the TPP will include an investor rights chapter and investor–state dispute process that lets companies sue governments in secret tribunals when public policies get in the way of profits. The polices or decisions can be legal and fair (i.e. they treat national and foreign firms identically), or designed to effectively protect the environment or public health, and still face corporate lawsuits demanding hundreds of millions, and sometimes billions of dollars in compensation. Canada has lost or settled five such claims under NAFTA costing the public over $160 million. Leaked texts show the TPP will create even more opportunities than in NAFTA for corporations to challenge public decisions. This powerful tool of corporate rule, designed to undermine democracy, is reason enough to stop the TPP.

http://canadians.org/tpp-info

Wed, 2015-10-07 21:32

#137

NDPP

TPP: Big Pharma's Big Deal - by Joyce Nelson

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/07/tpp-big-pharmas-big-deal/

"The final text of the TransPacific Partnership agreement won't be available for at least a month, likely weeks after the Canadian federal election on October 19. The details will undoubtedly reveal more generous concessions to the multinationals.

NDP leader Tom Mulcair has pledged to scrap the deal if elected as Prime Minister, explaining that the Stephen Harper government had no mandate to sign it during an election campaign when it is merely a 'caretaker' government.

The US website zerohedge.com calls the TransPacific Partnership 'a Trojan horse' and 'a coup by multinational corporations who want global subservience to their agenda.'

In no uncertain terms, it adds: 'Buyer beware. Citizens beware."

Thu, 2015-10-08 01:16

#138

kropotkin1951

I hope the NDP win but I suspect that the focus on a "free trade" agreement and the niqab are specifically designed to erode the NDP seats in Quebec. Unlike many of us West Coast lefties who have spent 30 years talking about the evils of corporate rights agreements it is my understanding that many people on the sovereignist left in Quebec accepted the concept as a good thing. I used to think the Bloc was a party I could support from afar because of their progressive platform. Now they could be poised to make a comeback in the roll of spoilers on the eve of an NDP victory by focusing on free trade and Islamophobia. Irony is oftern painful to live through.

Thu, 2015-10-08 16:35

#139

jerrym

It is also possible that TPP may not pass Congress in the US. On the Democratic side, Hilary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley have come out against it, as have Donald Trump and Rick Santorum on the Republican side. Many Democratic Senators and members of Congress are opposed as are a number of Republicans in the Senate and House. CBC is reporting that if it does not pass in the US, TPP is dead as the US is the main driving force behind it and the largest trading partner in the deal.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/07/hillary-clinton-opposes-t...

Thu, 2015-10-08 17:14

#140

quizzical

kropotkin1951 wrote:
... I used to think the Bloc was a party I could support from afar because of their progressive platform. Now they could be poised to make a comeback in the roll of spoilers on the eve of an NDP victory by focusing on free trade and Islamophobia. Irony is oftern painful to live through.

omg my mom said ths very same thing a few days ago.

i don't much about the Bloc and their former platform but mom maintains Duceppe must have been bought off huge to come in an play the spoiler and allow Harper a majority.

Thu, 2015-10-08 17:40

#141

josh

jerrym wrote:

It is also possible that TPP may not pass Congress in the US. On the Democratic side, Hilary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley have come out against it, as have Donald Trump and Rick Santorum on the Republican side. Many Democratic Senators and members of Congress are opposed as are a number of Republicans in the Senate and House. CBC is reporting that if it does not pass in the US, TPP is dead as the US is the main driving force behind it and the largest trading partner in the deal.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/07/hillary-clinton-opposes-t...

The only chance to defeat it is in the house. And the powers that be will spend whatever it takes to secure enough votes to pass it.

Thu, 2015-10-08 18:14

#142

jjuares

Harper said that the local content for the auto industry was no lower than 40%. It turns out that isn't true. For some components its 35%. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/feds-omit-key-detail-of-tpp...

Thu, 2015-10-08 19:07

#143

takeitslowly

i dont understand why if the quebec values tehir culture so much , why dont they care about TPP, which will undermine their culture?

Thu, 2015-10-08 20:19

#144

Arthur Cramer Arthur Cramer's picture

There is no question about it, Tom has to stand by his oppostion to it an go strong on the last couple of weeks. Their is no doubt that Junior is as ready to sell us out as the Tories. If the NDP folds, we are truly demand as a nation. Lawyers overseas will decide public policy and democracy in Canada will be effectively dead!

Thu, 2015-10-08 20:21

#145

Pondering

takeitslowly wrote:

i dont understand why if the quebec values tehir culture so much , why dont they care about TPP, which will undermine their culture?

How will it undermine it? Also, the provincial governments are not at the service of the people anymore than they have to be to get elected.

Thu, 2015-10-08 20:25

#146

Pondering

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/shachi-kurl/trans-pacific-partnership_b_824...

47% of NDP supporters don't know if they support TPP or not. To make this an election issue education would have had to have begun a long time ago.

The US will determine the fate of TPP. Canada joined the talks last. They don't care if we reject it. TPP would still go ahead and it represents 40% of world trade. Even if Mulcair were elected I don't believe he would walk away from the deal. He would just damn Harper for not having made a better deal for us. For the public to be strongly invested in stopping it would have required elevating the issue years ago.

P.S. Notice more CPC and Liberal supporters are aware enough of TPP to have an opinion on it.

Thu, 2015-10-08 21:19

#147

jerrym

takeitslowly wrote:

i dont understand why if the quebec values tehir culture so much , why dont they care about TPP, which will undermine their culture?

For the same reason they supported the 1988 FTA with the USA - it provides them with a large trade partner if they ever decide to leave the ROC and the ROC were to attempt revenge action by threatening a reduction in trade.

Thu, 2015-10-08 21:34

#148

jerrym

Pondering wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/shachi-kurl/trans-pacific-partnership_b_824...

47% of NDP supporters don't know if they support TPP or not. To make this an election issue education would have had to have begun a long time ago.

The US will determine the fate of TPP. Canada joined the talks last. They don't care if we reject it. TPP would still go ahead and it represents 40% of world trade. Even if Mulcair were elected I don't believe he would walk away from the deal. He would just damn Harper for not having made a better deal for us. For the public to be strongly invested in stopping it would have required elevating the issue years ago.

P.S. Notice more CPC and Liberal supporters are aware enough of TPP to have an opinion on it.

The difference between NDP and Liberals who Don't know/ Can't say is 4% which is either statistically insignificant or only marginally significant, so your P.S. makes no sense for these two parties. As to the Cons, now that the Progressive Conservatives have mostly left the party, the Con purists tend to be much more ideological; but, even here, the 8% difference from the NDP in Don't know/ Can't say is not an enormous difference.This is hardly surprising, considering how little we know about the deal.

The high percentage of those who don't know is not surprising because we are buying a pig in a poke from the corporations, who know what is in the deal in detail since they played a large part in drafting it, including the many sections where on issues, such as pharmaceutical pricing, intellectual property rights, corporate-state dispute settlement mechanisms, etc., where almost nothing is known, let alone the fine print of those sections, such as the dairy and auto sectors, where there is some general information available. The Cons, Liberals and corporations have us right where they want us in terms of getting approval for the deal in the election without knowing what we are actually approving.

Thu, 2015-10-08 22:09

#149

Northern PoV

jerrym wrote:

The difference between NDP and Liberals who Don't know/ Can't say is 4% which is either statistically insignificant or only marginally significant.

Hear, hear. A cheap shot Pondering, not worthy of you.

Almost half of progressive voters don't know about the TPP. A huge Harper success story. Shame on both parties for hiding this issue through this campaign. (The hail-Mary move by Mulcair to go all John-Turner-Ed-Broadbent is almost comical.)

Loss of national sovereignty via "Free Trade" Deals (and in Greece's case via the additional burden of currency union) will eventually emerge as a global issue and the pendulum will swing the other way. In the meantime many (most outside the BRICS sphere) gov'ts are all basically forced into these deals. Mulcair would be no exception were he to suddenly surge and win power. In the USA they will pork barrel it through (perhaps post election) but it will pass, notwithstanding Hillary's football antics.

Thu, 2015-10-08 22:25

#150

terrytowel

Core NDP supporters on the TPP 37% support, 21% oppose, 43% too early to decide

Accessible NDP supporters on the TPP 38$ support, 18% oppose, 44% too early to decide

Thu, 2015-10-08 22:41

#151

mark_alfred

Northern PoV wrote:

Almost half of progressive voters don't know about the TPP. A huge Harper success story. Shame on both parties for hiding this issue through this campaign. (The hail-Mary move by Mulcair to go all John-Turner-Ed-Broadbent is almost comical.)

It's not a "hail-Mary move" as you claim. Mulcair has expressed concerns about Harper and the TPP throughout the campaign. For instance, on August 4, at the beginning of the campaign, Mulcair did refer to the TPP, saying,

Mulcair on August 4 wrote:
What's going to be on the table with Mr. Harper negotiating that right in the middle of an election campaign? He's weak, he's vulnerable, he was never a very good negotiator to begin with, but we're concerned about very important subjects.

Supply management is something that has allowed Canadian farming families to hold on to their farms, despite the ups and downs … and lots of those farmers are worried. We've met them in southern Ontario, we met them here in Quebec, and we're going to stand up strongly and defend every step of the way our supply management system.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2673107312/

Trans Pacific Partnership and Election

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