Trudeaumetre - Bravo!

voice of the damned wrote:

monty1 wrote:

We can go over all the promises and discard the ones we never did want him to keep anyway. Some are easily recognizable as nothing but campaign promises that serve no purpose for reasonable people. On the important ones, we need to give him time to follow through.

 

Which campaign promises do you think "serve no purpose for reasonable people"?

 

The budget.

It will balance itself and doesn't need to be fretted over in times when it doesn't make sense to run a balanced budget. That's just political pap for election purposes as most people are coming to understand. If you wish a sensible debate on the subject then I'm happy to oblige you. But I won't if you can't rise above the politics and put the best interests of Canadians ahead of that Harper shit.

 

Keeping in mind that I haven't perused any of your previous posts to see where you're coming from. I may be overreacting to the way you phrased the question.

jjuares wrote:

monty1 wrote:

We can go over all the promises and discard the ones we never did want him to keep anyway. Some are easily recognizable as nothing but campaign promises that serve no purpose for reasonable people. On the important ones, we need to give him time to follow through.

And not many people in Canada reallly care all that much what the Conservatives whine about anyway. If Trudeau sticks to keeping the NDP moderately happy then he'll stay popular.

Well, your cynicism about Liberal promises is well founded given their sorry record when it comes to campaign promises. But that doesn't mean we should let them off the hook because if campaign promises are seen as not having value what is the point of campaigns, voting or elections?

Well welcome to 21st. century politics. Promis what the hell you like but make sure you appeal to the intellectuals who have the capacity to understand what your true priorities really are. Is there any way we could have re-elected Harper, regardless of what he promised? Trudeau was just the overwhelming best choice. Maybe Tommie could have done it but he folded his hand when he decided to take a chance on Muslim bashing on the Burqua. And he's already admitted himself that he fucked up on that issue. No real commitment to the high road. No balls. Too bad because I had to support the NDP in my riding for reasons you might already understand. ABC.

jjuares wrote:

monty1 wrote:

We can go over all the promises and discard the ones we never did want him to keep anyway. Some are easily recognizable as nothing but campaign promises that serve no purpose for reasonable people. On the important ones, we need to give him time to follow through.

And not many people in Canada reallly care all that much what the Conservatives whine about anyway. If Trudeau sticks to keeping the NDP moderately happy then he'll stay popular.

Well, your cynicism about Liberal promises is well founded given their sorry record when it comes to campaign promises. But that doesn't mean we should let them off the hook because if campaign promises are seen as not having value what is the point of campaigns, voting or elections?

It does if we consider the commitments made unwise especially if it is due to changing circumstances. Campaign commitments are made without a crystal ball.

 

quizzical wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

what do you mean tradition? they had a tradition of singing the blues on MLK day and  when someone was receiving  a life time achievement award?

yup Harper had his sicko little band. when did Layton sing? and Rae?

how about both? what was Gregoire and her handlers thinking? don't think they were. self absorbtion looks to be the motive and impetuous.

Both sang. I remember Rae in his first campaign as Ontario NDP leader -- he played the piano, was quite good and very funny. Layton did sing as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl0Mk1idNXg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eCKAQ0iooE

Now Layton had a sense of humour you see -- and he actually did have principles. Now you can't imagine Mulcair saying that becuase there would be too much truth to it.

awweee Sean you made me cry! thank you. loved loved loved the 2005 Gallery song. the comments were great too. what a human he was.

appropriate venues for musical entertainment i'd say.

 

It might be a job requirement for a leader to have a reasonable sense of humour. Most have had this: Mulroney, Clark, Chretien, Pierre Trudeau, Layton all did.

Some of the others either showed no sense of humour or it was not particularly good.

Justin Trudeau is personable in many ways but I have not seen all that much humour from him but I suspect he may have it. Harper's humour fell flat as did Dion's, Iggy's. Mulcair had his moments but often he did not show much Humour or it looked unnatural or forced. Rae actually seemed to have a good sense of humour for a while, then he lost it and in the last couple years got it back. I don't doubt that stuff in his personal life and his experience as premier affected him.

Layton definitely had a great sense of humour.

 

voice of the damned wrote:

quizzical wrote:

jjuares wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

quizzical wrote:

what do you mean tradition? they had a tradition of singing the blues on MLK day and  when someone was receiving  a life time achievement award?

yup Harper had his sicko little band. when did Layton sing? and Rae?

how about both? what was Gregoire and her handlers thinking? don't think they were. self absorbtion looks to be the motive and impetuous.

No I did not mean of singing the blues -- I meant of being amateur entertainers.

The context and how offensive that was was my next point.

I find it odd that nobody close to Gregoire was able to tell her that she should not be the focus of this event.

I am actually shocked that the CBC would not be abl eto see that its coverage was hugely inappropriate and stank of racism.

Just becuase Gregoire went to the mic, does not mean that this had to be the selection and focus for the coverage of that day.

The reality is that Dr. King's vision of a post racial society has still not been completely met. The CBC coverage was quite sad -- and on that point I really do not care who the white woman singing the blues is.

Well, the song was also a song written by Sophie about her daughter. What it had to do with MLK or diversity or racial justice is beyond me. Quite a surreal moment actually.

i couldn't figure out why the CBC reported this.

was it shock? was it a slam against Sophie? for Sophie? or something to let us know how inappropriate this was on many levels?

 

I'd put it down to the novelty of the PM's wife singing at an event. Man Bites Dog sort of thing.

And, cheezy as I thought it was, if you watch the video, she seem to get a pretty enthusiatic ovation, at least partly standing, from the assembled luminaries. Chock it up to JustinMania if you want, but it did seem to go over fairly well.

 

Certainly might work for a bunch of priveleged white people who think that an MLK event is really about them, yes. I would assume a few might have been caught in the moment but upon reflection might have a WTF moment when they think about what the event was, if they ever do.

Of course it was the CBC's responsibility not to be Entertainment Tonight but to communicate what the event was for. I value the CBC and the public investment in it. But this investment is not justified in this kind of irresponsible reporting that panders to the racist tendencies of a crowd that is oblivious to the purpose of why they are there.

Yes -- I will say this now: I consider the CBC's reporting to have been racist. They were there to cover an event and their racism (and white privelege?) prevented them from even seeing what the event was and reporting it.

Now I don't know if the greatest fault lies with the reporters on site, the news editors choosing the angle of the story, or the organizers having the event not reflect its purpose. I really would like to know. Two out of three are the CBC's fault and if it had been the third, the CBC should have reported that. So three out of three is the fault of the CBC.

The nature and context of Gregoire's singing is only a part of the story that is not complete. How serious or trivial her actions were would only be known with the full story that the CBC failed to report. It certainly looks bad on her and her handlers to be so clueless as to let this happen. The result was offensive and she has a responsibility to see this and find answers. Since she has not publicly objected to the story, it certainly looks worse for her than if she had come out and said this was aminor thing and you missed the real sotry. I am sure she saw the article. Sadly many people were talking about the story and her singing without even thinking about the more important issue.

That was the most narcissistic performance by a white privileged person I have seen in ages. Her great sorrows led to this song so forget about the civil rights movement and everything else MLK stood for its her pain that we should really feel.

I am disgusted and think the CBC should be disbanded. They have become the state media, cheerleaders and apologist for the government of the day. I think PressTV is less biased than the CBC.

jjuares wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

That was the most narcissistic performance by a white privileged person I have seen in ages. Her great sorrows led to this song so forget about the civil rights movement and everything else MLK stood for its her pain that we should really feel.

I am disgusted and think the CBC should be disbanded. They have become the state media, cheerleaders and apologist for the government of the day. I think PressTV is less biased than the CBC.

Yes, and one thing also needs to be brought up was the struggle MLK led came with many deaths. It was so disrespectful.

 

This was exactly my first reaction -- I feel a little better that others feel the same way.

quizzical wrote:

imv it was a multiple level disrepect. now i've reflected longer it's beyond disrespect in levels of wrongness by the CBC, Sophie and the Liberal Party.

I get the first two but I don't have any indication that the party itself was at fault or knew what was happening. As you know, I am no fan of the LPC but I just don't see the fault here.

I see the CBC with the greatest fault becuase they could have reported on the real story and choose to do this instead. I like the CBC but this was disgusting.

Gregoire ought to have known better and deserves to be asked an explanation but the CBC is the truling shocking one here...

quizzical wrote:

i see their hand  behind Sophie being asked to attend this event.  she most likely has a minder and the minder should've  known better than this, unless they thought it would fly which means..... if she doesn't have a minder then they are at fault for not ensuring she has one as she needs one.

i see the Liberal hand behind CBC thinking this was the thing to report on as if it was mana from heaven.

She is a media personality, she doesn't need a "minder". The song was cringe-worthy but won't hurt her or Trudeau at all. It just humanizes her.

mark_alfred wrote:

Andray Domise has an article about it:  http://www.vice.com/read/sophie-gregoire-trudeaus-weird-song-at-ottawa-m...

Good article. We are so smug in this country. No way this goes unnoticed in the USA and seen to be not a problem. Most of the articles I have seen make a passing nod to the " context" of her song but then talk about how moving it was. The article in the Toronto Star was especially disgraceful but so was CBC.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Pondering wrote:

quizzical wrote:

i see their hand  behind Sophie being asked to attend this event.  she most likely has a minder and the minder should've  known better than this, unless they thought it would fly which means..... if she doesn't have a minder then they are at fault for not ensuring she has one as she needs one.

i see the Liberal hand behind CBC thinking this was the thing to report on as if it was mana from heaven.

She is a media personality, she doesn't need a "minder". The song was cringe-worthy but won't hurt her or Trudeau at all. It just humanizes her.

Yeah you are probably right -- there are enough racists in Canada that you can do this without being hurt.

Also Liberals seem like they will forgive their party anything these days.

And of course the coverage of the MLK event was so dismal that most people reading the article may not put together what happened.

Even Liberals here don't see this as much of a problem.

Sad, very sad.

yes it's sad Sean.

and yes pondering she does need a minder.

she is not in the media any longer and she is being billed as the PM's wife, and thus represents Canadians eh.  media person positions by the way have scripts and producers who mind them.

good article mark-alfred says it all.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Pondering wrote:

She is a media personality, she doesn't need a "minder". The song was cringe-worthy but won't hurt her or Trudeau at all. It just humanizes her.

Yeah you are probably right -- there are enough racists in Canada that you can do this without being hurt.

Also Liberals seem like they will forgive their party anything these days.

And of course the coverage of the MLK event was so dismal that most people reading the article may not put together what happened.

Even Liberals here don't see this as much of a problem.

Sad, very sad.

I don't think people need to be racists to sympathize with her. Apparently other people also sang.  Sophie was invited because her presence would bring more guests and attention to the event which it did. In hindsight it was inappropriate but as issues go it's minor in comparision to social housing and education. She didn't do anything racist. She spoke beforehand so the song is being taken out of context. She may have given a beautiful address. Notice nothing else made the news about  the event?

Stringer answered my question with a few questions of his own: Why hadn't I made the trip to the DreamKEEPERS event to see it for myself? Why was this event of such sudden importance, yet no one paid this much attention when awards were handed to Pinball Clemons and Michaëlle Jean in previous years. 

Not bad points. I wouldn't have known anything about the event if it were not for Sophie Trudeau's involvement. Would it had made the news at all?

These are also good points:

It does offend me that organizations like DreamKEEPERS would much rather hand out awards to the rich,the respectable, and the politically connected than black activists who march in the streets and sue for our humanity. And yes, it does offend me that when I spoke with three advocates from Ottawa's black community, none were invited to this event, much less honored. One of them, Erica Ifill, marveled at the lost opportunity to facilitate a conversation between front-line activists, black Canadians in business and political circles, and Ottawa politicians. "In this country, whenever they talk about race, it's somebody else's problem," she told me. "It's this low-expectations bigotry that I can't understand. It's the way this country works."

The above is a much more serious issue than Sophie's impromtu song.

The article is entitled:

Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau's Weird Song at Ottawa's MLK Tribute Was the Least of Its Problems

If it's the least of the problems with the Tribute why is she the headliner for the article? Because she is click bait? Would the event have received any media attention were it not for her presence?

 

 

i agree Arthur.

Sophie and the organization should be apologizing. Sophie needs a minder and the Liberal Party needs a non-racist brain to think with.

the only thing they think about is getting elected next time and it's wearing thin fast.

 

Pondering wrote:

Arthur Cramer wrote:

Pondering are you OK with Sophie being a racist?

She isn't a racist and she didn't do anything even a tiny bit racist.

Ok, well there is discussion above nn THIS thread that explains the sentiment of racism. Secondly in all her, very white, celebrity privelege did she feel it was ok to make the story about her? She is out of touch, tone deaf, patronizing and VERY priveleged! I know, I'm Caucasion so maybe I'm speaking out of turn pointing out her "whiteness". But I'm a Jew and I have a life time of dealing with racial prejudice to some significant degree. Certainly I'm not equivocating my experience with that of people of colour. Why are you defending her Eastern Establishment, wealthy celebrity, very 1%er, privelege?

quizzical wrote:

i agree Arthur.

Sophie and the organization should be apologizing. Sophie needs a minder and the Liberal Party needs a non-racist brain to think with.

the only thing they think about is getting elected next time and it's wearing thin fast.

 

Now I get it with you quizzical. You hate Trueau. All I need to know now is whether your hate is coming from the left or the right. My hunch is the right.

monty1 wrote:

quizzical wrote:

i agree Arthur.

Sophie and the organization should be apologizing. Sophie needs a minder and the Liberal Party needs a non-racist brain to think with.

the only thing they think about is getting elected next time and it's wearing thin fast.

Now I get it with you quizzical. You hate Trueau. All I need to know now is whether your hate is coming from the left or the right. My hunch is the right.

i don't hate "Trueau" and had he not been an empty shell of a person being completely fake and full of himself. i mighta even voted for the Liberals in 2019. i mighta done last election but the Liberal candidate was a tad bit arrogant and the NDP candidate was a FN woman. no other choice than her imv. i liked the Green Party candidate too except for her intensity.

i do intensely dislike the Liberal Party now though. thanks in part to their representatives here and their actions and non-actions across the board now they're in power and doing sfa.

Arthur Cramer wrote:

monty1 wrote:

quizzical wrote:

i agree Arthur.

Sophie and the organization should be apologizing. Sophie needs a minder and the Liberal Party needs a non-racist brain to think with.

the only thing they think about is getting elected next time and it's wearing thin fast.

 

 

Now I get it with you quizzical. You hate Trueau. All I need to know now is whether your hate is coming from the left or the right. My hunch is the right.

What a ridiculous comment Monty. It is OBVIOUS Sophie acted very inappropriately. No doubt you'd be all over Mulcair if he acted that inappropriately. Justin and Sophie are not Royalty. They should stop acting like it and people should stop enabling them. The case has been made why Sophie is being called out. It has nothing to do with anyone hating anyone. Those of you defending her are such whiners when she's called to task. You're trolling. For the record I originally thought Quizzical was a Lib. Turns out she's a REAL leftie, and not a faux LPC supporter "progressive". You're out to lunch; get over yourself.

Actually I've been a lifelong NDP supporter who voted NDP because they were the obvious winners in my riding. Otherwise I would have voted Liberal to defeat Harper. And I even think Mulcair is about as good as they'll get. He lost in a strategic vote to dump Harper. And unfortunately, the Liberals have stolen his political platform. 

Just because the NDP got hammered doesn't mean that people should run around trying to make up reasons why Trudeau is a bad man. Or even worse, try to make out that his wife is a bad lady. They really need to find some kind of legitimate complaint. And saying he's not going to take the bombers out of the US led wars because he hasn't done it yet, is just a non-starter. 

monty1 wrote:

Actually I've been a lifelong NDP supporter who voted NDP because they were the obvious winners in my riding. Otherwise I would have voted Liberal to defeat Harper. And I even think Mulcair is about as good as they'll get. He lost in a strategic vote to dump Harper. And unfortunately, the Liberals have stolen his political platform. 

No, the Liberal platform is not NDP.  It is Liberal through and through.  It is very similar to what Kathleen Wynne's Ontario Liberals ran on.  Basically, a meaningless fiddling with personal taxes to appeal to people, keep corporate taxes low, favour privatization, avoid long term fixed costs but have some short term spending on infrastructure coupled with cuts to the public service.  By contrast, the NDP wanted to raise corporate taxes, favour maintaining public services, advocated long term spending on issues such as child care, and likewise advocated greater spending on infrastructure (but no cuts were included in the NDP's platform).  So, certainly different.

As a visible minority, if there is any blame it should be to the event organizers. They were in charge of the marketing of this event and should have made the event more integrated. Hopefully lessons learned for next year.

If Sophie didn't sing, this event would have gotten ZERO coverage. Now with all this publicity, next year the event will be a sellout!

As Rosalynn Carter said "You are going to get criticized it doesn't matter what you do. So you might as well get criticized for what you want to do"

Those calling Sophie a racist are belittling the issue of racism to use as just another insult to fling at someone.

terrytowel wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

The poster distributed in social media for the event had Clarks' and Gregoires face on it. It is not as if she just sang a song. The was one of two white headline speakers for the MLK event in Ottawa. She clearly was involved in this since you do not see people have pictures on official posters if they are not involved. Pondering -- are you saying that it is appropriate for two white people to be the faces of a MLK event?

No, I'm saying that the organization Dreamkeepers or whatever invited her to be a guest speaker and chose to honour Clark for his work against aparteid. All Sophie did was show up and give a little speech. Several people had sung during the event so she tacked on her song.

Exactly. Sean if you are asked to give a speech, do you ask event organizers for the right to approve marketing materials before you show up? Sophie will be getting hundreds of invites a year. She has no staff to sift through these invites, Should she be asking event organizers to proof every and all marketing material before she attends an event?

You are invited to a ceremony commemorating a revered civil rights leader who gave his life for civil rights. And what do you? You use the opportuniy to sing a song you wrote about your love for your daughter. Now why would anyone say that is insensitivve or inappropriate? Hey, I can tell you but I can't explain it to you.

jjuares wrote:

You are invited to a ceremony commemorating a revered civil rights leader who gave his life for civil rights. And what do you? You use the opportuniy to sing a song you wrote about your love for your daughter. Now why would anyone say that is insensitivve or inappropriate? Hey, I can tell you but I can't explain it to you.

Her speech was planned, the song was not. The media chose to focus on the song rather than her speech.

jjuares wrote:

Pondering wrote:

jjuares wrote:

You are invited to a ceremony commemorating a revered civil rights leader who gave his life for civil rights. And what do you? You use the opportuniy to sing a song you wrote about your love for your daughter. Now why would anyone say that is insensitivve or inappropriate? Hey, I can tell you but I can't explain it to you.

Her speech was planned, the song was not. The media chose to focus on the song rather than her speech.

Well then that makes it appropriate. WTF

And this whopper, ladies and gentlemen is why I have no use at all for Liberals and long ago decided that talking to any LPC supporter of a complete and utter waste of effort. "Canada's Natural Governing Party", don't you know!

Pondering wrote:

jjuares wrote:

Pondering wrote:

jjuares wrote:

You are invited to a ceremony commemorating a revered civil rights leader who gave his life for civil rights. And what do you? You use the opportuniy to sing a song you wrote about your love for your daughter. Now why would anyone say that is insensitivve or inappropriate? Hey, I can tell you but I can't explain it to you.

Her speech was planned, the song was not. The media chose to focus on the song rather than her speech.

Well then that makes it appropriate. WTF

No, but it wasn't racist and it wasn't the crime of the century. At most it was a minor gaffe. I think she should be praised for being there and bringing attention to the day. I think the focus on the song is shallow. I would have liked to know more about the other speakers and the speech. Instead the media decided to sensationalize the song. Apparently that was the most important 2 minutes of the entire event and she was the only person of note at the event. How big was the event? 100 people? 50? Less?

Go ahead and continue bashing Sophie for the next 4 years. You will just help turn it into 8.

Pondering, these posts are why so many of us on this board feel comfortable displaying our complete disdain for you. I say it again, this kind of tone-deaf defense by you of a 1%er, who put on the most self-absorbed personal celebration of self I have ever seen, is no suprise. You obviously have no limit where Liberals are concerned. But I know without question, were Tom Mulcair to have done this (and unlike you, New Democrats on this board would condemn and attack him without quarter, because, again unlike you, we have a real set of beliefs that don't depend on which way the wind is blowing), you'd have been all over it. You are a hypocrite and a self absorbed pontificator, with seeminly no sense of social awareness. You once told me that you thought we shared some things politically and wanted some of the same things. Just to re-iterate, I'm not interested in buying what you are  selling, you flim-flam artist. Obviously, political punditry is not your storng suit. I share NOTHING with you.