Boycott / sanction Saudi Arabia!

This encouraging post only strongly supports the essential strategy...that to change politics in Canada we must enlist the support of internationalist organizations, institutions and international law...

thankfully our new government is a slight touch more flexible than the last bunch of !??

NDPP wrote:

Apparently not...

Liberals Committed to Saudi Arms Deal Even After Concerning UN Report, Dion Says

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-committed-to-saudi...

"Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion said the Liberal government remains committed to a contract to sell $15-billion in weaponized armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia even in the face of a new UN report documenting human-rights violations by a Saudi-led bombing campaign in Yemen.

'We respect the contract,' he told reporters Thursday morning after a speech in Ottawa.

The Trudeau government has faced repeated requests to justify the shipment of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a country notorious for its treatment of women, dissidents and prisoners.

The Liberals promised during the election campaign that they would revise Ottawa's approach to international relations to improve this country's reputation on the global stage, and marketed this change as 'Canada's back'.

It never left.

I'm still optimistic that Trudeau meant Chretien's success in keeping us out of the Iraq war to begin with. But I have to remain realistic enough to understand that what has been built by the Harper government over 10 years, can't be torn down and thrown in the garbage heap of history overnight. You do obviously, but it's mostly your politics that cause you to think so. 

None of you want to talk about or even acknowledge how Obama stopped his own country's PNAC plannned wars with both Syria and Iran when he stood at such great odds against him by his entire country. And none of you seem to understand that he indeed did accompllish that much.

So until you do then it's hopeless to convince any of you to try to understand how Trudeau is of the same headspace as Obama is on the antiwar agenda we so much mutually favour. 

If that's the way you want to leave it then you keep on doing what you're doing and I'll keep on criticizing you and others for doing it. Makes bloody little difference to me or in the scheme of things.

GLOBE AND MAIL...Ottawa pushes military deals with Kuwait despite UN concerns

http://tinyurl.com/hjq4c7x

NDPP, if the following are your own words then I strongly disagree:

Quote:

and let's not be boy scouts about this."

Business is business, it's huge profits, union jobs for Canadians, and besides they're only poor, brown-skinned middle eastern untermenschen anyway...Care to support some more Crimes Against Humanity, Justin? Are you sure this is 'the moral high ground?'

Racism or race baiting but outrageiously crude in any case! I do not agree!  

Business is business, it's huge profits, union jobs for Canadians, and besides they're only poor, brown-skinned middle eastern untermenschen anyway...Care to support some more Crimes Against Humanity, Justin? Are you sure this is 'the moral high ground?'

....this is the politics of all the political parties in parliament, maybe not the Greens, who I haven¨t heard from...silence the usual strategy when controversy arises....

yes the MPs our august body of political authorities are  criminals...and we must await the opportunity and timing to pthe Saudis they pulled a NDPer saying that the contract must be respected (how about the contracts for the gas chambers of Nazi Germany?)...but with the new Liberal twist saying they are prepared to revisit the issue if?

So how about the negotiations for contracts with Qatar, likewise a patron of some of the invading forces into Iraq and Syria, not to mention Libya!

¨business is business¨ ...I remain confused about Canada´s stabilizing dollar on international markets, despite the ongoing crash of oil, commodities and finances...could it just be the global capitalists support for the liberal government´s weapons policy?, which of course they are prepared to revisit, when the people are crashing the door of Parliament Gates!

As Yemen Bleeds, British Profits from Weapons Sales “Bury Human Rights” By Felicity Arbuthnot

...at least there seems to be some organized movement in the UK to challenge the right of their government to complicity in crimes against humanity as defined in the Nuremburg Trials

Kropotkin wrote:

Quote:

It seems that NDPP was merely being direct and putting in words what the cartoon from the piece implies. How many civilians has Trudeau killed since taking power? It seems that their lives don't matter. He is not only continuing the bloodshed he is selling arms to a murderous regime that will use those weapons on dissidents in its own country and against its neighbours. Liberal Tory same old story but then Monty being a lifetime NDP supporter in your late 70's you should get that in spades.

I get it kropotkin but I don't get how you come off saying that Trudeau is killing people. In fact, Canada isn't even  killing people in Saudi. More like Canada is complicit in the killing of people in Saudi. There 'is' a distinction. which makes the NDP complicit too.

As for my age, you don't know how old I am because you didn't ask me and I didn't need to give you an answer on whether or not I voted for the CCF because you were afraid to ask, considering that you already proclaimed that I was in my 80S and then told us all how you are intuitive and can figure these things out. 

LOL

Back on topic: You seem to think that the Liberal government can change things overnight from what took Harper ten years to create. It's unrealistic, although desirable. But ti's an extemeist agenda that Canadians aren't ready to adopt. They're far from pulling out of Nato and far from stopping the ignorant naming of the US as our best buddies. You people must learn that progress comes slowly. Chretien made huge progress on keeping us out of the 2003 Iraq war but even then he was mercilessy bashed upon by the hawks in Canada as well as we suffered economic blackamiail from the US. And that was in a political climate in which US sucking up was much less.

Imagine, a boy P.M. with good hair and good looks and all the other attributes the Cons and the NDP label him with, upsetting the ties our country has with Nato for all those years!! He can't and he won't. Justice in one sense for the demeaning he's received. I know, I know, you want it all right now, but it ain't gonna happena and it never has. What does succeed is supporting of a party's agenda that offers some change and I think you know that. 

Look at the stir that is currently being caused by the Liberal's position on support of US wars. Would Trudeau continue to suffer this kind of flak if it wasn't necessary? If trading the  apparent support for the US led wars for the 6 bombers being puled out didn't make a huge visual difference then why would he be sticking to it? 

monty1 wrote:

I get it kropotkin but I don't get how you come off saying that Trudeau is killing people. In fact, Canada isn't even  killing people in Saudi. More like Canada is complicit in the killing of people in Saudi. There 'is' a distinction. which makes the NDP complicit too.

I guess we just have to disagree because I tend to read more than just the MSM and its NATO shills. Canadian bombs are killing civilians and he promised to end the airstrikes. It was lies like that one which led to his election as a progressive. The blood of the civilians killed since he has been in office is blood on his hands.

As for your age you started the age thing by talking down to people like Sean with phrases like "young fella." It seems you dish it out but then want to whine and moan when someone calls you on it. So if you are not lying about supporting the CCF then you are at least 78 years old. Since I presume the honesty of that personal information I will feel free to note you are in your late '70's anytime I want to. So when did your conversion to the forces of the dark side occur?

Feel free to say I am in my mid-sixties any time you feel like it. My handle says it all about my age.

Quote:

Since Trudeau’s election, Canada has bombed Iraq on 52 separate occasions (including February 3, 2016). Canada's military has been dropping 500-lb. bombs on the Iraqi people (and sometimes in Syria) since November, 2014. Trudeau promised he would the bombing upon election. In the first week of December, Stephane Dion stated the bombing would end "within weeks." Two months later, it continues unabated.
Because there is no concern for civilian casualties amongst the bombing powers, there is no effort to link specific acts of bombing to those killed by them. In fact, most governments insist there have been no civilians killed.This chart is based on information provided by Canada's own War Dept. and airwars.org; it indicates which countries bombed the same location on particular days when reports of civilian casualties were gathered.

http://homesnotbombs.blogspot.ca/2016/02/canadian-bombning-strikes-in-ir...

kropotkin1951 wrote:

monty1 wrote:

I get it kropotkin but I don't get how you come off saying that Trudeau is killing people. In fact, Canada isn't even  killing people in Saudi. More like Canada is complicit in the killing of people in Saudi. There 'is' a distinction. which makes the NDP complicit too.

I guess we just have to disagree because I tend to read more than just the MSM and its NATO shills. Canadian bombs are killing civilians and he promised to end the airstrikes. It was lies like that one which led to his election as a progressive. The blood of the civilians killed since he has been in office is blood on his hands.

As for your age you started the age thing by talking down to people like Sean with phrases like "young fella." It seems you dish it out but then want to whine and moan when someone calls you on it. So if you are not lying about supporting the CCF then you are at least 78 years old. Since I presume the honesty of that personal information I will feel free to note you are in your late '70's anytime I want to. So when did your conversion to the forces of the dark side occur?

Feel free to say I am in my mid-sixties any time you feel like it. My handle says it all about my age.

Quote:

Since Trudeau’s election, Canada has bombed Iraq on 52 separate occasions (including February 3, 2016). Canada's military has been dropping 500-lb. bombs on the Iraqi people (and sometimes in Syria) since November, 2014. Trudeau promised he would the bombing upon election. In the first week of December, Stephane Dion stated the bombing would end "within weeks." Two months later, it continues unabated.
Because there is no concern for civilian casualties amongst the bombing powers, there is no effort to link specific acts of bombing to those killed by them. In fact, most governments insist there have been no civilians killed.This chart is based on information provided by Canada's own War Dept. and airwars.org; it indicates which countries bombed the same location on particular days when reports of civilian casualties were gathered.

http://homesnotbombs.blogspot.ca/2016/02/canadian-bombning-strikes-in-ir...

Yeah that on my age. And any time you want to know then just ask and I 'might' tell you. I would suggest you just drop it because it's not working very well for you now. In fact, it's making me giggle a bit.

As for the bombing, aren't we talking about Saudi? Yes, it is 100% true that Canadian bombs are killing people in other countries but that's another topic. We should continue with that one too. 

voice of the damned wrote:

monty1 wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Here's to their crushing between the contradictions...

 

Former Liberal Minister Calls For Review of Saudi Arms Deal

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/former-liberal-minister-calls-for-re...

"A prominent former Liberal foreign minister is calling on Justin Trudeau's government to review a controversial $15-billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, saying he doesn't think Canada should be deepening relations with a Mideast country notorious for human rights abuses. [except for Israel]

Lloyd Axworthy, who served as foreign minister between 1996 and 2000 under prime minister Jean Chretien, remains influential in Liberal circles..."

 

Well, if he really felt that strongly about it, he could have said something during the campaign, when the Liberals were promising that the deal would go ahead.

 

And yes yes. I'm not naive. I know full well that politicians usually try to avoid bashing their own party during a campaign. Just as long as we're not kidding ourselves about where Axworthy ranks "moral commitment" in relation to "winning elections".

The immediate spin on this, and the most important from my POV is the screaming and gnashing of teeth that will be heard over it. In essence, to be quite candid about it, it's already started by you in a rather novel way by starting to demonize Axworthy. Rather than start off with a positive and supportive stance. 

I know, I know, politics are the most important thing, both with Axworthy's and the NDP's.

 

I wasn't demonizing Axworthy. I was just saying that his complaints about the arms-deal are a little belated.

Yes, I can accept that. But you didn't sound very positive and my main point is, that's what's needed. Any possible inroads we get need to be picked up and ran with. I would/will never hesitate to do that with any NDP initiatives that are mentioned that are positive antiwar. And if Trudeau doesn't support such then that will be eliciting my firmest condemnation. 

Having said that, 'providing their suggestions are practical', and that's where we may differ. 

But you didn't sound very positive and my main point is, that's what's needed. Any possible inroads we get need to be picked up and ran with....

okay. here´s my suggestion...that we poll all the MP´s or as many ridings as we represent to get their opinion on the deal....or of course if any votes come up in Parliament.......then to pass it around...say to any judicial bodies representing the recent international Treaty on limiting arms sales...to the World Council of elected MPs etc., with notification to our MP´s that their opinion has been noted, with international legal action to commence when appropriate, and that we ask populist and progressive forces in other countries, to ban admission of these complicit MPs into their country, or potentially face arrest and detention for complicity for crimes against humanity......

monty1 wrote:

NDPP, if the following are your own words then I strongly disagree:

Quote:

and let's not be boy scouts about this."

Business is business, it's huge profits, union jobs for Canadians, and besides they're only poor, brown-skinned middle eastern untermenschen anyway...Care to support some more Crimes Against Humanity, Justin? Are you sure this is 'the moral high ground?'

Racism or race baiting but outrageiously crude in any case! I do not agree!  

Obvious troll feigns ignorance of obvious irony

Operation Armoured Rights  -  by Daniel Turp

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/article28632361.ece/BINARY/...

"One could have expected the new Trudeau government, a 'government of real change,' to cancel the decision...On its face, the idea that military equipment made in Canada could contribute to human rights violations against civilians in Saudi Arabia and neighbouring countries is immoral..."

Ottawa To Face Court Challenge Over Saudi Arms Deal  -  by Steven Chase

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-to-face-court-challe...

"Opponents of Canada's $15-billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia are taking Ottawa to court in an attempt to block shipments of combat vehicles, a move that could force the governing Liberals to explain how they justify the sale to a human-rights pariah under weapon-export restrictions. [Canada's transfers to the human-rights pariahs Israel, Ukraine should face a similar challenge]

Daniel Turp, a professor of international and constitutional law at the University of Montreal, is leading the effort, supported by students and a Montreal law firm with a record of class-action work and anti-tobacco litigation.

Mr Turp and his group are calling on critics of the deal across the country to rally behind their challenge, which they are calling OPERATION ARMOURED RIGHTS.

There is evidence Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is out of step with the majority of Canadians by refusing to cancel the deal..."

Perhaps this commendable initiative involving an activist academic will pry others of that sadly apathetic and indifferent community off the comfortable and complicit fence they have chosen to safely sit on for so long...?

iyraste1313 wrote:

 

What do you mean, as many ridings as we represent? Who represents?.......

...good question! maybe the scattering of Canadians out there who have time or power to get away from the TV brainwash, not scrambling to find enough cash to pay the rent or mortgage, maybe even buy some real nutritious food, and who still maintain some interest in life beyong survival and cash, looking for some ideals to carry through with in life?

And maybe an infinitesimal number who believe things must be done to make change through collective action? Maybe there are 380 of us...enough to cover every riding?

 

I like the idea. I hope people take it to heart when Trudeau says that he understands how people have to be educated to strive for a better life. I don't take it as a copout by a wealthy guy who doesn't understand the problems of society by a guy who understands social responsibility and wants to help with our problems of the poor, homeless, and disadvantaged. The opposite of Harper. I think it's something he picked up from his father and his mother. 

Boycotting Saudi oil is a tactic that would be very ahrd to make effective. Better to work for a blanket ban on arms sales to them, maybe. (Though they might stop selling oil to Canada in retaliation!) 

When you go to the pumps you have no idea where the gas you are getting originated from. Its easy to give stats on how much is from which source but impossible to tell what went into the hopper at the refinery that produced the gas your car uses.

Of course we could have compulsory labeling but I would prefer we got proper labeling of food first.

Given we can't even get Trudeau the Ready Aye Ready to stop selling them people killing light armoured vehicles and that refueling aircraft will likely be refueling Saudi jets I am not going to waste my time trying to get to this government to invoke sanctions against our "ally". That would be as useful as calling for government sanctions against Turkey our NATO ally or Israel. It ain't gonna happen. Don't get me wrong its not like I wouldn't like it to happen.

I think we should leave the Middle East alone and if we don't get out of NATO at least be a voice of reason in the alliance that tells the truth about what is really happening. Turkey, Israel and Saudi Arabia commit human rights violations against their minorities on a daily basis but we talk about the evil in Iran. If we talked about all human rights violations we would become a respected country again.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Given we can't even get Trudeau the Ready Aye Ready to stop selling them people killing light armoured vehicles and that refueling aircraft will likely be refueling Saudi jets I am not going to waste my time trying to get to this government to invoke sanctions against our "ally". That would be as useful as calling for government sanctions against Turkey our NATO ally or Israel. It ain't gonna happen. Don't get me wrong its not like I wouldn't like it to happen.

Okay, so no boycotting of Saudi oil at the consumer level, because there's no way of knowing where the oil in the pump comes from.

And no use asking the government to ban the import of Saudi oil, because they'll just say no anyway.

If that's the situation, I would say there isn't much point in framing this movement as a "boycott" or a "sanction" of Saudi Arabia, because, as far as I can tell, almost nothing is being boycotted or sanctioned.

From what I can see, the only meaningful strategy being advocated here is to curb the sales of military hardware to Saudi Arabia. So I would respectfully suggest that this movement be rebranded as a "military embargo" of Saudi Arabia, similar to the movement in the 80s to ban the sale of CANDU reactors to the military junta in Argentina. (I believe it was called No CANDU For Argentina.)

Submitted by Nadia Prupis via TheAntiMedia.org,

Dutch lawmakers have voted to ban weapons exports to Saudi Arabia over the kingdom’s violations of humanitarian law, making the Netherlands the first country in the European Union (EU) to follow through on a motion by the European Parliament in February.

The landmark resolution, approved on Tuesday, asks the Dutch government to impose a full arms embargo on Saudi Arabia, including dual-use exports that could be used to violate human rights. The bill cites United Nations figures that Saudi-led troops have killed nearly 6,000 people in Yemen—half of them civilians.

The bill also noted the Saudi government’s ongoing executions of its own citizens, many of them political dissidents.

...so how to stop Canada's ongoing complicity in genocide in Yemen, ad nauseum?

A statement to the European Parliament? A federal court action citing this decision?

http://globalnews.ca/news/2599903/dion-breaks-bread-with-saudi-ambassado...

Quote:

Just under three months after decrying the mass execution of 47 people in Saudi Arabia, Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion attended a “congratulatory reception” at the Saudi Embassy.

New Democrats want to know what Dion discussed with Alsudairy.

“Canadians needs to know if Mr. Dion raised human rights issues during this meeting,” foreign affairs critic Hélène Laverdière said.

“We have been asking the government to be transparent and make public all information  related to the deal, it’s unfortunate that once again, Mr. Dion refuses to be honest with Canadians.”

George Galloway and his audience discuss What's Behind Saudi Terrorism in Yemen & Beyond For More Than A Year? Perhaps Canadian naifs who don't fully appreciate the implications of this country's relationship with Saudi Arabia, will have their eyes opened.

What's Behind Saudi Terrorism in Yemen & Beyond For More Than A Year?(and vid)

http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/03/25/457469/Yemen-Saudi-Arabia-Abd-Rabbu...

"Among the Saudi regime's Western supporters and sponsors (that's Liberal Canada!], the US remains the key backer, either despite or because, of the kingdom's massacre of more than 8,000 people among over 2,000 children....The one year bombing campaign has injured 16,000 others since the beginning of the Western supported aggression..."

Cancelling Saudi Arms Deal Would Have No Effect on Human Rights: Dion

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/cancelling-saudi-arms-deal-...

"Foreign Affairs Minister Stephane Dion is defending a controversial $15 billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia by saying cancelling it would be a futile gesture because another country would simply supply the combat vehicle to Riyadh instead..."

What a greedy amoral ghoul Dion is. So make the futile gesture already. Canadians love futile gestures. It's what they do best...

iyraste1313 wrote:

Thanks for these posts...important as we must be documenting Canada's complicity in war crimes, with 2 tactics in mind, here, to prepare a federal court action under provisions of our own Anti terrorism act, which of course under our totally corrupt judicial system will go no where, but in preparation for international court actions...I would consider first the OAS Charter as most accessible most liberal...but make no mistake, this documentation and legal strategy is essential!

We must discredit the entire political corrupt institutional power of thwe Canadian oligarchic State, a necessary strategy in preparation for launching a movement for autonomy!@

I'm  fairly happy when we can come to a point when we can talk about detailed action. Specific names, locations, dates. Who to contact, how to contact, what to say or do , etc. I've provided my roadmaps already.

Can you go into more detail with your plan? Maybe bullet point by bullet point?