NDP leadership race 2

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Mon, 2017-02-06 23:29

Sean in Ottawa

sherpa-finn wrote:

The political leverage of this issue will not be about electoral reform, per se. IMHO.

However, it will usefully serve as one of the more flagrant examples of Liberal lies and broken promises to be cited and re-cited repeatedly. So an important part of the re-branding of the Trudeau Gov't prior to the next election, along with the betrayals over marijuana, pipelines, C-51, etc.

Of course, having won on the "Be grateful I am not Stephen Harper!" bandwagon in 2015, one can only reasonably expect Trudeau to run on a "Be really grateful I am not Donald Trump" platform in 2019. And it may well work.

I can respect a party to some degree if in breaking a promise they account and explain reasons why things have changed or what they learned. But to just ignore and move on from them is another thing. There is no humility.

Mon, 2017-02-06 23:29

#703

Sean in Ottawa

Mon, 2017-02-06 23:51

#704

quizzical

sherpa-finn wrote:
one can only reasonably expect Trudeau to run on a "Be really grateful I am not Donald Trump" platform in 2019. And it may well work.

"I am not Donald Trump" = Kevin O'Leary

Tue, 2017-02-07 00:31

#705

Pondering

Responding here so as not to contribute to thread drift.

http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/predictions-2019#comment-1597788

Guy Caron looks very interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Caron

Tue, 2017-02-07 06:28

#706

nicky

Pondering, you Liberals achieved your great success in 2015 by packaging Trudeau. You were able to conceal that he is a self-important, narcistic lightweight without a thought or principle that Gerald Butts does not put into his pretty head. You may pull it off again in 2019, just as the Republicans convinced a lot of voters that Trump is not really Trump. But Trudeau's serial betrayals are slowly revealing his true character and 2019 may yet be a surprise. Remember Lincoln's saying about fooling people.

Tue, 2017-02-07 09:11

#707

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

If the Liberals go back on moving the pension to 67 from 65, they will lose many votes from an age group who vote. The way I figure it is this: If the Liberals go back on the marijuana promise, they will get a minority government, and if they go back on the pensions, they will lose.

Tue, 2017-02-07 09:45

#708

Pondering

nicky wrote:
Pondering, you Liberals achieved your great success in 2015 by packaging Trudeau. You were able to conceal that he is a self-important, narcistic lightweight without a thought or principle that Gerald Butts does not put into his pretty head. You may pull it off again in 2019, just as the Republicans convinced a lot of voters that Trump is not really Trump. But Trudeau's serial betrayals are slowly revealing his true character and 2019 may yet be a surprise. Remember Lincoln's saying about fooling people.

I'm not a Liberal. I'm a person who decided Trudeau were a better option than Mulcair and that Canada needed deficit spending while the NDP would have had to cut services to keep their promise of a balanced budget every year. There would be no national daycare. It's unlikely they would win a majority so there would be no PR either. They wouldn't legalize marijuana. The NDP basically had nothing on offer. They would have messed around for 4 years and lost the next election in a landslide. Mulcair would have had the reputation of Rae and the NDP would have been useless for decades.

You can attack Trudeau, and be right, for the next 4 years and he will still win another majority unless either the NDP or the Conservatives come up with a spectacular leader that can convince Canadians that their brand of crooked is better than Trudeau's brand of crooked.

Trudeau is a good thing for progressives. At least now there is a chance the left will retake the NDP and they will stop trying to be a clone of the Liberal party.

To get back to the conversation at hand, Guy Caron might be good. He has a masters in economics and he hasn't been grandstanding in parliament.

PS. The Alberta NDP should start promoting PR big time. They have a majority there so they could force it through. Then you would have a wonderful example of PR working great to convince Canadians we should do it nationally.

Tue, 2017-02-07 09:48

#709

Sean in Ottawa

montrealer58 wrote:

If the Liberals go back on moving the pension to 67 from 65, they will lose many votes from an age group who vote. The way I figure it is this: If the Liberals go back on the marijuana promise, they will get a minority government, and if they go back on the pensions, they will lose.

I think there is a good chance that the Liberals will lose.

In Canada we have a tradition of alternation: The conservatives mostly screw us, the Liberals mostly pretend and promise to help us but leave in place whatever screwing the Conservatives put in place and one and a while they screw us themselves or offer something just to keep the cycle going.

The Liberals might not be worse than the Conservatives -- if you were considering them two Conservative parties but their bait and switch approach, hoovering up votes from people who want something different is in many ways more damaging. It prevents the progress a significant number of voters want.

The pattern may be that roughly two fifths are conservative, 2 fifths want change and one fifth want next to nothing. Half of voters who want change get sucked in each time by the bait and switch so we alternate between electing Conservatives and do-nothings when, without the lying, we would alternate more regularly with people who actually want change.

On top of this we get provincial NDP governments with a pattern of behaving like Liberals.

I don't think our governments reflect what people want due to chronic lying by Federal and provincial Liberals and some provincial NDP governments.

Tue, 2017-02-07 12:11

#710

Mighty Middle

The latest rumor (and this is a RUMOR) on the twittispehre is that some are suggesting Liberal MP Nathaniel Erskine-Smith might jump ship and move to the NDP

He has outspoken about the Liberals broken promise on PR.Within hours he wrote an op-ed for Huffington-Post about the broken promise

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nathaniel-erskinesmith/liberals-abandon-ele...

He has also broke party ranks on more than a dozen votes to side with the NDP on their private members bills and opposition motions. And he has called for the full legalization of all drugs,

Just hot off the presses he has been removed from the Security committee for trying to find "consensus" with the NDP on revamping C-51

In answer to the question why he is not a dipper, he tweeted

"Very happy with CCB, CCP, infrastructure investments, carbon price, refugee/ immigration plan & more"

"focus on poverty, reconciliation, MMIW inquiry, drug policy, tax fairness, international reengagement, senate reform & more"

But after being publicly dumped off the security committee, things might change as some people on Twiter are encouraging him to make the move. Any thoughts?

Tue, 2017-02-07 12:11

#711

MegB

Holy moly, over 700 posts! Continued here.

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