NDP leadership race 4

Jagmeet Singh says won't seek federal Commons seat until 2019 if chosen as NDP leader

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/08/11/singh-says-wont-seek-federal-commons-seat...

Meanwhile Labour leaders write open letter calling on New Democrats to elect Charlie Angus as next leader

http://www.straight.com/news/947241/labour-leaders-write-open-letter-cal...

Mighty Middle wrote:

Also in terms of fundraising Andrew Scheer, who was elected Conservative party leader, raised a total of $989,006 for his leadership campaign. Far cry from other leadership candidates who raised more.

Comparing votes to money raised is only meaningful for first ballot support. Scheer won because he was the second (or third, etc.) choice for those members who wouldn't accept Bernier, particularly social conservatives.

Ken Burch wrote:

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

[/quote]

Ya that's probably it. I didn't like the way this phrase sounded at first but I think it fits. I'll watch out for it in future comments.

Thanks again brother!

Mighty Middle wrote:

Also in terms of fundraising Andrew Scheer, who was elected Conservative party leader, raised a total of $989,006 for his leadership campaign. Far cry from other leadership candidates who raised more.

Maxime Bernier  - 2.5 Million

Kellie Leitch - 1.5 Million

Kevin O'Leary - 1.4 Million

2 points from on this.

First, can the NDP compare to the conservatives in regards to money raised? After all, different parties, different contributors, different values etc etc.

Secondly the amounts raised. Looks like way way more in the conservative camp! Andrew still raised almost double than all the NDP candidates put together!

Ya I don't think the NDP can make logical reasonable comparisons to the conservatives by comparing the ratios of funds raised per candidate in relation to each other and disregard the actual amount raised. It's very possible that 750K raised is a minimum required to become leader in either party. Or maybe it 500K? In other words, Any amounts raised above 750K is of not much use in gaining leverage against another candidate.

Just throwing it out there.

WWWTT wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

 

 

Ya that's probably it. I didn't like the way this phrase sounded at first but I think it fits. I'll watch out for it in future comments.

Thanks again brother!

[/quote]

You totally missed my point.  he WASN'T "virtue-signalling".  He was making the valid point that there is essentially no way to cast collective-suspicion on the motives an intent of an entire ethnic or religious/ethnic community without getting damn close to trading in bigotry.  It's a legitimate reason to oppose Jagmeet if you feel he'd have trouble winning a federal seat, would cost the party votes in Quebec, or if you think he'd be too far to the right on policy.   It's NOT legitimate to oppose hiim because you don't believe Sikhs can be trusted to follow the rules of the leadership contest.  Why are you insisting on opposing the guy for the illetimate reason?  It's not as if that's the only way to stop him.

Ken Burch wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

@ Sean in Ottawa

Oh I'm not confused. But perhaps you want to discredit me for first hand accounts I have witnessed and how those risks can become intertwined into the NDP road to rebuilding? Or perhaps you are confused? Perhaps you want to look like or emit the appearance that you're not racist or against anyones religion, so you ignore the obvious issues, and any criticism of any single group/community must instantly becomes racism, xenophobia or anti religioun! I don't know which it is, so I'll let you pick one. And I'm not stating anything that many members don't already know. I'm just reminding and sharing my first hand experience. 

Time for you to be clear and back this shit up.

Where EXACTLY do you find ANYTHING by which you think you can call me out as possibly being racist in this?

You seem quite confused in that you are going after me and yet I have not been the one to attack his canddiacy or the fact that he has osme community supporters.

Where do you get off with this garbage?

I can't even figure out what point you are making since I took a rather middle road here and said that I have no particular problem with any of these candidates -- I prefer Ashton based on policy. I have no serious problem with Jagmeet. Now here you are calling me a racist and yet I have not even been the one to attack him. I have been the one here saying that even if he had the full backing of the Indo Canadian community that would not propel him to victory so people should relax about their concerns about "ethnic support." I have said you seem confused becuase you are attacking me presuming I am saying the very things I am questioning. Now if you are going to halu out the fighting words, start with making sure your comprehension is up to snuff.

I think he is implying that your(and my) objections to his anti-Sikh community comments is "virtue signalling":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

 

 

Really? I did not seea sign of that. It seemed more like that he did not understand what was being said. while some were saying that they had a problem with the power of a single group, I pointed out how small this group was relative to the main population and how you woudl need a wider audience for power. I see no connection either to his attacks on me or any of this from there.

To clarify, by "he" I meant the gentleman with all the all-caps.

Ken Burch, I'll be "snarky" with certain people in here all I want.  It's interesting you don't call them out though when they dish it out.  But not surprising.  You've very selective.

Peter Julian was leading in endorsements, until he dropped out.

I'm not saying endorsements from caucus are meaningless, but it seems to me they're more about the endorsers hoping to get in on the ground floor of the next potential leader's inner circle than they are useful tools for the undecided voter. I also wonder where the campaign money's going; this appears, on the ground, to be a much lower-budget race than the previous one. Last time there were rented call centers with full-time staff; this time, the people I know working for candidates are doing the calling from home, using their own personal phones. Not that I object to the low-hostility, attack-ad-free, seemingly grassroots-driven nature of this campaign. But deep pockets are only useful insofar as one does something with the money, and even though polls have been scarce, Singh doesn't appear to have been able to translate his donations into a lead so far.

@Sean in Ottawa and Ken Burch

Ya actually it sounds like you're BOTH virtue signalling!

WWWTT wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Ontario MPPs Catherine Fife, Wayne Gates, Mike Mantha, Peggy Sattler, Lisa Gretzky, Percy Hatfield, Jennifer French, Taras Natyshak, Cindy Forster, and former MPPs Rosario Marchese and Jonah Schein, endorsed Jagmeet.  http://www.jagmeetsingh.ca/ontario_mpps_endorse_jagmeet

Don't see Peter Tabuns in that list? And not surprising, he doesn't like to take sides and keeps it nuetral.

Tabuns is supporting Caron.

I see that MP Carol Hughes has endorsed Charlie Angus (back in 2012 she endorsed Niki Ashton).

Friends,

I am endorsing my friend and colleague Charlie Angus for the next Leader of the New Democratic Party. I have known Charlie for many years, and we have worked together, both in the House of Commons and in our neighbouring ridings.

I know Charlie to be a straightforward, straight-talking individual who has a deep personal concern for the people he represents. Charlie doesn't just talk about equality and justice, he believes in them the same way he believes that, as a society, we can do better. He is a tireless worker on behalf of Canada's most vulnerable communities, starting with Indigenous children and including workers, women, artists, and many others.

On top of all that, Charlie may be one of the best communicators I have worked with. He has an easy talent for making difficult issues understandable, for bringing humour to difficult situations, and for getting people on his side. When I think about the next federal election debates, Charlie Angus is the person I want to see representing the NDP. He won't just stand apart from the Liberal and Conservative leaders, he'll outshine them and bring Canadians to our side.

Please join me in supporting Charlie. 

Carol Hughes
MP, Algoma – Manitoulin – Kapuskasing

R.E.Wood wrote:

I see that MP Carol Hughes has endorsed Charlie Angus (back in 2012 she endorsed Niki Ashton).

Friends,

I am endorsing my friend and colleague Charlie Angus for the next Leader of the New Democratic Party. I have known Charlie for many years, and we have worked together, both in the House of Commons and in our neighbouring ridings.

I know Charlie to be a straightforward, straight-talking individual who has a deep personal concern for the people he represents. Charlie doesn't just talk about equality and justice, he believes in them the same way he believes that, as a society, we can do better. He is a tireless worker on behalf of Canada's most vulnerable communities, starting with Indigenous children and including workers, women, artists, and many others.

On top of all that, Charlie may be one of the best communicators I have worked with. He has an easy talent for making difficult issues understandable, for bringing humour to difficult situations, and for getting people on his side. When I think about the next federal election debates, Charlie Angus is the person I want to see representing the NDP. He won't just stand apart from the Liberal and Conservative leaders, he'll outshine them and bring Canadians to our side.

Please join me in supporting Charlie. 

Carol Hughes
MP, Algoma – Manitoulin – Kapuskasing

I noted this and was surprised since Carol is a very strong advocate of bilingualism. She is, of course also from Northern Ontario. Still she must believe that Charlie can answer this issue.

I like Carol a lot and have a lot of respect for her opinions. This is an interesting endorsement.

I do see reasons to be excited about Charlie. I interested in hearing his thoughts on a French speaking leader and what he wants to do about it.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/grenier-singh-membership-1.4243570

Looks like a wrap for Angus!  Probably not the news the Liberals wanted to hear, eh! Minority government here we come.

The Liberals are positioned best against Angus.  Angus might be a problem for the Conservatives but not for the Libs.

wage zombie wrote:

The Liberals are positioned best against Angus.  Angus might be a problem for the Conservatives but not for the Libs.

I totally disagree that Angus is any kind of gift to the Liberals, but I wonder if you could share any of the facts that lead you to your belief, which you stated as a fact? Or maybe you could just edit your post to begin with the words "I think..." or "In my opinion..."

We will fight the election with whoever wins the leadership. Hopefully, the campaign strategy will be designed to play to the leader's strengths.

wage zombie wrote:

Suzuki also endored Trudeau.

He didn't, he supported Joyce Murray in the Liberal leadership race. Then when Trudeau called Suzuki for an endorsement during the election, Suzuki (justifiably) crapped all over his plan and told him what would really be required to meet the Paris targets.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/why-david-suzuki-called-justin-tr...

Quote:

Not me. If Charlie or Jagmeet win, go ask the members who voted for them to support the party, my shoulders aren't that strong anymore for people who take me for granted!

Will your shoulders have enough strength to help Trudeau go two-for-two?  Or would you be looking at a four year pout?

So, can somebody sell me on the idea that Angus as leader, with mediocre French at best, does NOT guarantee a wipeout in Quebec?  That a leader with that flaw could possibly ever be popular in Quebec?  This is important, because any significant losses in Quebec essentially guarantees the party can't make significant gains anywhere else, especially not in Ontario, a province where the voters will likely never move past the Lib/Con binary in federal politics.  

I still remember seeing the mass rally for Jack in Montreal in '11.  To have any chance, the Dippers will have to have a leade who can draw crowds like that in that city.  Does anybody envision Charlie being able to do that?

Of course but hopefully we pick the leader who has the best chance of defeating Trudeau

Caissa wrote:

We will fight the election with whoever wins the leadership. Hopefully, the campaign strategy will be designed to play to the leader's strengths.

Quote:

LOL! Ya you don't get it brother. Why would I support anyone who's view is not close to mine?

That's certainly a good question.  A better one would be whether you'd support someone whose view is even further from yours.

Quote:

Not just that, my wife is Chinese, and I'm thinking about moving to China and joining the communist party of China. And somehow you think I'm supposed to feel dejected if Niki doesn't win??? Ok if you say so?

Well, enjoy.  But if you keep grousing about Canadian candidates, please don't feel hurt or hard done by if I or others now recommend that you just move to China and vote for the Communist Party.

We just want to see you finally happy, WWWTT.

Michael Moriarity wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Not just that, my wife is Chinese, and I'm thinking about moving to China and joining the communist party of China.

If you do, I'd be interested to hear how things go there. Unless babble is blocked by the Great Firewall for being too bourgeois.

Will do. Last time I was in China(mainland) many Canadian political debate sites are available. But I didn't try rabble. Some stuff you can't get. You know what else you don't get? Religious people knocking on your door shuvling you garbage! Ya I'm going to really miss people who think they're superior to you because of religion.