Charlottesville Virginia :Car Plows Into Anti-Fascist Protesters

Glad to see the thread back on track. If that interpersonal shitstorm starts up again I'm going to have to close this thread. And that would be a sad thing to see.

The Monuments Must Go: An Open Letter From Great, Great Grandsons of Stonewall Jackson

Full text of letter from William and Warren Christian, the great, great grandsons of Confederate Gen. Stonewall Jackson to Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission.

To see Democracy Now!’s exclusive interview with William and Warren Christian about their letter, click here.

Dear Mayor Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission,

We are native Richmonders and also the great, great grandsons of Stonewall Jackson. As two of the closest living relatives to Stonewall, we are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue. They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display. Overnight, Baltimore has seen fit to take this action. Richmond should, too.

In making this request, we wish to express our respect and admiration for Mayor Stoney’s leadership while also strongly disagreeing with his claim that “removal of symbols does [nothing] for telling the actual truth [nor] changes the state and culture of racism in this country today.” In our view, the removal of the Jackson statue and others will necessarily further difficult conversations about racial justice. It will begin to tell the truth of us all coming to our senses.

Last weekend, Charlottesville showed us unequivocally that Confederate statues offer pre-existing iconography for racists. The people who descended on Charlottesville last weekend were there to make a naked show of force for white supremacy. To them, the Robert E. Lee statue is a clear symbol of their hateful ideology. The Confederate statues on Monument Avenue are, too — especially Jackson, who faces North, supposedly as if to continue the fight.....

Bree Newsome: Charlottesville is Latest Chapter in Long U.S. History of White Supremacist Terror

quote:

BREE NEWSOME: I mean, again, I just continue to emphasize to people that this is not new. This is a—this is part of a long history and a pattern of white supremacist terrorism in this country. I think part of what people are struggling right now—struggling with right now is recognizing that it is terrorism, for whatever reason. But the reality is that the greatest terrorist threat in the United States is and has always been from white nationalists and white supremacists.

Heather Heyer, her death is part of a tragic and long history of white allies who were standing with black activists fighting for justice, who lost their lives, who were killed by white supremacists. Of course, one of the most famous cases was the case of Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner, three civil rights workers who traveled to Mississippi in 1964 to register black citizens there to vote. And they went missing, and they were—their bodies were discovered several days later, and it, you know, became clear that they had been murdered by the Ku Klux Klan, working in collaboration with police.

You know, so, again, this whole question about, you know, is it terror, is it not terror, that is a question that should no longer be asked. It absolutely is terrorism, by every definition. Not only are these acts of violence that are intended to cause terror, but they are also politically informed. It is people using terrorism as a tactic to push an ideology. There is absolutely no moral difference between a white supremacist plowing his car into a crowd of unarmed protesters to advance an ideology and someone who is inspired by ISIS plowing their car into a crowd on a street in Germany for the same reasons, to drive home some ideology that they believe in. There’s no difference. It is terrorism. It should be labeled as such. It should be dealt with as such. It should be investigated as such.

Not only should, you know, people like Dylann Roof and the terrorists from Saturday be charged and prosecuted, but there needs to be an investigation of these networks. How far do they go? How far into the power structure do they reach? We know that one of the closest advisers to the president runs a—or used to run a news platform that he described as being a platform for the alt-right. The alt-right, that term was coined by Richard Spencer, who we saw on Saturday pressing up against the police line with shields. I mean, it just reaches a certain point where, you know, asking certain questions are ridiculous, and it’s just time to deal in reality.

I'll just post a link here to a pamphlet written by Leon Trotsky at the time of the rise of the Fascists in Germany. Some parts don't apply simply because the Fascists are still a small minority in the USA. However, many parts of Trotsky's analysis still apply, particularly his analysis of the Stalinist CP reaction to events in Germany.

Fascism: What it is and how to fight it.

The fascist movement in Italy was a spontaneous movement of large masses, with new leaders from the rank and file. It is a plebian movement in origin, directed and financed by big capitalist powers. It issued forth from the petty bourgeoisie, the slum proletariat, and even to a certain extent from the proletarian masses; Mussolini, a former socialist, is a "self-made" man arising from this movement.

...The genuine basis (for fascism) is the petty bourgeoisie. In italy, it has a very large base -- the petty bourgeoisie of the towns and cities, and the peasantry. In Germany, likewise, there is a large base for fascism....

​The very rich are okay, the very poor are demoralized. Fascism finds it's supporters amongst those who saw themselves as middle class, and see their position sliding away. With no credible left in the USA, those disaffected elements find themselves casting about for someone to blame. No surprise that someone like Trump finds a way to use their fear to build a political career.

Fortunately, for now, they are a tiny minority. That may not always be the case. As the USA slides into permanent depression, the desire for a 'strong' leader can only increase.  

Well, I was half right. I said either Bannon or Kelly would have to go after the interview Bannon gave the other day. I put my money on Kelly, but it's Bannon who is gone.

Bannon leaves Trump's Whitehouse

Chief strategist Steve Bannon's days in the White House are over, it has been confirmed.

..."White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and Steve Bannon have mutually agreed today would be Steve's last day," White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders said in a statement. "We are grateful for his service and wish him the best."

...Bannon becomes the latest departure amid a number of resignations and firings in the first seven months of the Trump administration. They include:

• Sally Yates, acting attorney general.
• Michael Flynn, national security adviser.
• James Comey, FBI director.
• Mike Dubke, communications director.
• Sean Spicer, press secretary.
• Reince Priebus, chief of staff.
• Anthony Scaramucci, communications director.
• Josh Pitcock, vice-president's chief of staff.
• Walter Shaub, head of the office on government ethics.

​I think Randy Newman wrote this song for Trump

I've been around the world
Had my pick of any girl
You'd think I'd be happy
But I'm not
Ev'rybody knows my name
But it's just a crazy game
Oh it's lonely at the top

Listen to the band they're playing just for me
Listen to the people paying just for me
All the applause all the parades
And all the money I have made
Oh it's lonely at the top

Listen all you fools out there
Go on and love me I don't care
Oh it's lonely at the top
Oh, it's lonely at the top

NDPP wrote:

Nation Rallies Around Ronald McDonald Statue That Embodies Country's True Heritage

https://t.co/CvwFEyDDVj

 

TJDS: What People Are Missing About Charlottesville Protest

https://youtu.be/AaO4Bv6Rzb0

"This is the game...."

So we're should give the horrific current president of the United States a pass because he did not create racism in America?!?

It will be interesting to see if Bannon does some major leaking. I'm not holding my breath.

One White Nationalist down. Now if only Gorka and Miller are sent flying out on their asses. But that would take the action of Kelly,not Trump.

But people are over looking one racist who is a major player in Trump's administration....The Keebler Elf himself,Jeff Sessions. Unfortunately,that degenerate asshole isn't going anywhere.

josh wrote:

The main racist white nationalist who needs to go is Trump.

Touché.

I stand corrected. But they ALL have to go.

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

White Zionist Pot Rae Calls Racist Trump Kettle Black

"The reason he can't disavow white supremacists is because their ideology is so close to his own. The determination of many world leaders to try and normalize this leadership has to be brought to ground."

Trump's Presidency A Long Descent Into Darkness: Rae

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/16/trumps-presidency-...

 

Max Blumenthal

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/897140860474863616

For God's sake leave our beloved President Donald Trump alone already!! We have real evil fish to fry like Bob Rae. Make Canada Great Again by locking up Bob Rae!?!?!  :@

Only Putin has sufficiently clean hands to criticize Trump, don't you know?

One person is killed in a southern state of the USA and Rabble.ca sends me a message that they are 'devastated'. Why is the Left in Canada so worked up about this. No more historical plaque in Montreal at least. Many or most young lefties know zilch about the Civil War. 600,000 lives lost only to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years, devastate and crush the South. What about the civil war in Syria where so much of the 'left' supported the anti-Assad revolutionaries,

NDPP wrote:

Charlottesville Is Moment Of Truth For Empowered US Zionists (who name their children after Israeli generals)

http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/charlottesville-empowered-children/

"Charlottesville represents a crisis for liberal Zionists. When they condemn white nationalism in the US and celebrate Jewish nationalism in Israel, the contradiction is obvious to all."

Apparently not all...

I agree with Weiss that there is a contradiction between being a Zionist(at least one who supports Israeli expansionism) and claiming to oppose racism and imperialism. I don't think I would call Charlottesville the big "Moment Of Truth", however, since liberal Zionists have been involved in anti-racist causes on the homefront for some time now.  

Quote:

In a paper advocating for eugenics, Invictus wrote a disclaimer to the eugenics paper stating that while he believes the strong and intelligent should breed and the weak and stupid should not, he does not believe that the government can be trusted to implement such a program.

Well, there's a Conservative!  Punching the "lumpen" with one hand, and simultaneously the "cuck" government with the other!

And you have to admit:  that's a haircut you could set your watch by.

From Rikardo:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South...

​I tell you what. Let me sell you into slavery for the next twenty years, and when it's over you can come back here and tell us what it meant to you.

​Perhaps more to the point, find me a slave who was opposed to freedom if it meant some white plantation owners were going to die.

Rikardo wrote:

Will any of you deny my statement?  Over 600,000 lives lost to advance the inevitable end of slavery by 10-20 years and tto devastate and crush the South (The Confederate States of America)

(Sure the stupid Southerners fired the first shot at a Federal fort, like the Citadel in Quebec City)

What makes you think it was inevitable?  Had there been a confederate nation, it very well could have prolonged it.  And they had plans to expand it southwards.  

There were more slaves in Brazil than anywhere else in the world in the 19th century, a far larger number than in the US. And slavery didn't end there until the 1880s, yep 20 years more. There are still grave scars of the institution, although in some senses Brazil has a more "fluid" idea of race than the US.

I can't abide any excuses for slavery. Nobody would want to be a slave... Even the terribly exploited industrial workers in the UK were strong supporters of abolition in the US and the Caribbean.

By the way, for what it's worth, most of the Civil War deaths were from disease. Roughly two-thirds of the total.

It's also worthwhile to remember the war wasn't strictly speaking over slavery in the Confederate states. It was whether the territories and the new states were going to be allowed to be slave states. Lincoln's position was that he couldn't prevent the existing slave states from keeping slavery, but the federal government could prevent the territories and the the new states from legalizing slavery.

The existing slave states wanted to expand slavery into the territories and new states, and saw Lincoln's action as a violation of state's rights. 

If the Confederacy had won the war, slavery would have expanded into at least some of those areas, and the speculation that it would have disappeared in 20 years or so is just that, speculation.

In any case, there were 4 million slaves in the slave states, and there could have been many more if the Confederacy had won. Even if slavery had lasted 'only' another twenty years, that would be another generation of 5 or 6 million slaves. Or to put in another way, about 100 million 'slave years'.

As far as the casualties of the war, I do feel for them. The war never should have been fought. The slave states should have given up their cause. Let us not forget this, it was their unwillingness to see the end of slavery that caused the war, that caused all those casualties. 

I also find it a bit interesting that those whose rallying cry has been, "Clinton lost! Get over it!" should be still fighting a war that ended 150 years ago.

Quote:

I also find it a bit interesting that those whose rallying cry has been, "Clinton lost! Get over it!" should be still fighting a war that ended 150 years ago.

Agreed.  And even slightly more interesting that their other rallying cry is "... but she should still go to prison forever!!"

Robert E. Lee’s Family Just Gave An Unexpected Response To Trump’s Charlottesville Controversy

Following Trump’s off the rails, impromptu press conference yesterday in which he again failed to condemn literal white supremacists and neo-Nazis at Saturday’s rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, the family of Robert E. Lee, in a surprising move, denounced the white nationalist groups who rallied to preserve the Civil War general’s statue.

“There’s no place for that,” Robert E. Lee V, the great-great-grandson of the Confederate hero, said in an interview with Newsweek. “There’s no place for that hate.” Along with Lee’s sister, Tracy Lee Crittenberger, the two issued a statement condemning the “hateful words and violent actions of white supremacists, the KKK or neo-Nazis.”

Despite the violent crowd of white supremacists marching to protect Lee’s statue, which has stood in Charlottesville since 1924, his family issued a stern warning against invoking their forebearer’s name in defense of the abhorrent and racist acts.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Since slavery is absolutely unacceptable the only side to blame for the existence of war over it is the side fighting to keep it.

I agree the US would only be worse if the South had won that war. While it is truly hard to think how they could have, you can easily imagine how this would have had an impact on the events of the 20th century.

Only if you employ exceptionalism can you think that the US had only one direction to where it is now or that things could not have been much worse and still remain so. The fact that you have the strength of the far right at the level it is now, can only suggest what it could have been in an alternate history.

Not having to have the south, the U.S. would probably have been better off.  But blacks, Central America and the Caribbean wouldn't have.  No war is good.  But if any wars could be considered good, it would be the U.S. Civil War and WWII.

josh wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Since slavery is absolutely unacceptable the only side to blame for the existence of war over it is the side fighting to keep it.

I agree the US would only be worse if the South had won that war. While it is truly hard to think how they could have, you can easily imagine how this would have had an impact on the events of the 20th century.

Only if you employ exceptionalism can you think that the US had only one direction to where it is now or that things could not have been much worse and still remain so. The fact that you have the strength of the far right at the level it is now, can only suggest what it could have been in an alternate history.

 

Not having to have the south, the U.S. would probably have been better off.  But blacks, Central America and the Caribbean wouldn't have.  No war is good.  But if any wars could be considered good, it would be the U.S. Civil War and WWII.

It is difficult to play the what-if game and I am not sure this is true. If the US was managing an independent south it is possible that its more negative interferences in the rest of the Americas may have been reduced. I think there are too many difficult questions that would ahve been answered with different people becoming leaders of each of the countries.

The entire would would have been different and it is very difficult to determine which of those differences would have been positive or negative.

Even the second world war may have had a different outcome and the US may have been split then.

Just after he tells Fatima to remove her "head towel" in reference to her hijab, Goertzen and her friend walk up to the parking lot near Seven Sisters dam and approach the group. Goertzen said she was shocked by what she heard and saw.

"I couldn't believe that someone would speak to another human this way regardless of their skin, their size, their race, their colour. It doesn't

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/nazi-manitoba-bystander-1.4261463