Why is it Trudeau can get away with this?

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Wed, 2017-09-20 17:52
#1
Pondering
Why is it Trudeau can get away with this?

Trudeau started his day Tuesday at the Bloomberg Global Forum, where he shared the stage with the International Monetary Fund's Christine Lagarde; the prime minister of the Netherlands, Mark Rutte; Larry Fink, the CEO of Blackrock USA; and Steve Schwarzman of the Blackstone Group.

There, he spoke of the importance of progressive trade deals. He highlighted Canada's free trade agreement with Chile, which he said was the first agreement among G7 nations to include a gender section. He also stated that the Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement (CETA) that comes into effect Thursday between Canada and the European Union was in "real trouble" when the Liberals took office.

His government, Trudeau said, had worked hard to make it more progressive, by making changes to the mechanism to resolve investor-state disputes and emphasizing labour, gender and environmental standards.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/09/20/prime-minister-says-joseph-gordo...

 

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Wed, 2017-09-20 18:00
voice of the damned

I'm not sure what you mean by "get away with this". Is it the usual thing that world leaders publically expressing such views get assassinated?

I don't think too many people here would dispute that a politician can say stuff like what Trudeau said. Whether he's going to follow through is another question.

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Wed, 2017-09-20 18:06
(Reply to #2)
Pondering

voice of the damned wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by "get away with this". Is it the usual thing that world leaders publically expressing such views get assassinated?

I don't think too many people here would dispute that a politician can say stuff like what Trudeau said. Whether he's going to follow through is another question.

There is nothing to follow through on. He is claiming these things as accomplishments he has already achieved. That is why I said "gets away with". 

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Wed, 2017-09-20 18:59
voice of the damned

Well, if you're talking about things he's already done, I still don't see the big mystery about his being able to do them. The CETA was signed by numerous other countries besides Canada, so Trudeau wasn't the only one "getting away with it".  

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Wed, 2017-09-20 19:32
(Reply to #4)
Pondering

voice of the damned wrote:

Well, if you're talking about things he's already done, I still don't see the big mystery about his being able to do them. The CETA was signed by numerous other countries besides Canada, so Trudeau wasn't the only one "getting away with it".  

Are you saying that you agree that CETA is a progressive trade deal? Personally I see it as a whopper.

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Thu, 2017-09-21 07:32
voice of the damned

Oh, so you mean get away with lying about CETA? Ah , okay, sorry. Misunderstood.

How does he get away with misrepresenting CETA, then? I'd say it's got to do with the minimal attention most Canaddians pay to trade deals(apart from once-in-a-century events like the 1988 election), plus Trudeau's ability(much aided by the US and to some extent global media) to fashion an image for himself as a trustworthy avavtar of progressive values.

Basically, most Canadians don't care about CETA, and among the minority who do, most of them are willing to assume Trudeau is being truthful when he tells them what an enlightended document it is. As I've said before, the babble consensus that categorizes Trudeau as a pro-corporate right-winger has very little traction among the general public.  

 

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Thu, 2017-09-21 09:26
(Reply to #6)
Pondering

voice of the damned wrote:

Oh, so you mean get away with lying about CETA? Ah , okay, sorry. Misunderstood.

How does he get away with misrepresenting CETA, then? I'd say it's got to do with the minimal attention most Canaddians pay to trade deals(apart from once-in-a-century events like the 1988 election), plus Trudeau's ability(much aided by the US and to some extent global media) to fashion an image for himself as a trustworthy avavtar of progressive values.

Basically, most Canadians don't care about CETA, and among the minority who do, most of them are willing to assume Trudeau is being truthful when he tells them what an enlightended document it is. As I've said before, the babble consensus that categorizes Trudeau as a pro-corporate right-winger has very little traction among the general public. 

You are right about that. I am constantly hearing the media speaking of Trudeau and the Liberals as being on the left whereas they used to be referred to as the centre. The Overton window has successfully been moved so far to the right that centre-right has become left.

People now believe trade deals in general are good and that they are too complex to really understand so the bargaining must be left to people who are trained in international trade. No one is telling them otherwise. Even the NDP generally supports CETA.  Only the Council of Canadians and CUPE have criticized it.

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Thu, 2017-09-21 10:43
(Reply to #7)
Unionist

Pondering wrote:
Only the Council of Canadians and CUPE have criticized it.

That's a sweeping statement, but it's erroneous. The Canadian Labour Congress has many affiliates besides CUPE (its largest), covering some 3.3 million unionized workers. This was its statement issued on Oct. 21, 2016:

CETA’s failure is a win for democracy

And Unifor - which bills itself as Canada's "largest private-sector union" - issued this on April 13:

Unifor calls for rejection of CETA

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Thu, 2017-09-21 12:46
(Reply to #8)
Pondering

Unionist wrote:

Pondering wrote:
Only the Council of Canadians and CUPE have criticized it.

That's a sweeping statement, but it's erroneous. The Canadian Labour Congress has many affiliates besides CUPE (its largest), covering some 3.3 million unionized workers. This was its statement issued on Oct. 21, 2016:

CETA’s failure is a win for democracy

And Unifor - which bills itself as Canada's "largest private-sector union" - issued this on April 13:

Unifor calls for rejection of CETA

Thanks for that. I didn't know that Unifor had also come out against it. It drives me crazy that there is so little opposition to CETA being heard.

I just read this: http://rabble.ca/columnists/2016/09/why-trudeau-following-harpers-lead-a...

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2016/09/why-trudeau-following-harpers-lead-a...

I hope the Europeans can stop it. It is Canada insisting on keeping the ISDS in CETA. Although I am getting off topic. I am more concerned with Trudeau being framed as a leftist so by extension whatever he does is considered progressive because he is progressive. They really do create reality. They understand that if they repeat a simple lie frequently enough it becomes accepted as fact.

Neoliberals have been brilliant in their approach to reversing the advances made since the New Deal. Those who oppose neoliberalism have not.

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Fri, 2017-09-22 03:52
(Reply to #9)
JKR

Pondering wrote:

People now believe trade deals in general are good and that they are too complex to really understand so the bargaining must be left to people who are trained in international trade. No one is telling them otherwise. Even the NDP generally supports CETA.  Only the Council of Canadians and CUPE have criticized it.

I think Canadians support trade deals simply because Canada's economy depends on exports. Because we are a relatively smaller country Canadians also understand that we are at a disadvantage when negotiating with larger entities like the US, EU, or other trading blocs. Since we can not impose left wing ideals on others, many Canadians accept that our trade deals are the best we can get under the current circumstances. They understandably consider protectionism to be worse than"free trade" deals for Canada. Canada is a rich country and Canadians don't want that to be threatened by protectionism.

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Fri, 2017-09-22 05:02
NDPP

#StopCETA

https://twitter.com/corporateeurope/status/910796397535989760

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Fri, 2017-09-22 10:35
(Reply to #11)
Pondering

JKR wrote:

Pondering wrote:

People now believe trade deals in general are good and that they are too complex to really understand so the bargaining must be left to people who are trained in international trade. No one is telling them otherwise. Even the NDP generally supports CETA.  Only the Council of Canadians and CUPE have criticized it.

I think Canadians support trade deals simply because Canada's economy depends on exports. Because we are a relatively smaller country Canadians also understand that we are at a disadvantage when negotiating with larger entities like the US, EU, or other trading blocs. Since we can not impose left wing ideals on others, many Canadians accept that our trade deals are the best we can get under the current circumstances. They understandably consider protectionism to be worse than"free trade" deals for Canada. Canada is a rich country and Canadians don't want that to be threatened by protectionism.

But Europe is not demanding the ISDS stay in. There is massive opposition to it. It is Canada insisting on and promoting ISDS not Europe. All Canada has to say is "fine, leave it out".

Of course Canadians and I would hope the NDP as well supports trade deals in general. That doesn't mean all trade deals are good. Canadians want good trade deals not just any trade deals.

We are the ones insisting on a bad trade deal that favors corporations and apparently the NDP doesn't really mind all that much.

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