Media coverage of suspicious death of billionaires

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Unionist

Misfit wrote:

 I haven't spent much time on this topic nor read any articles. But the very first thing that came to my mind was an act of misogyny and thank you Timebandit and Lagatta for trying to straighten this thread around  and for hitting the nail on the head. 

When I heard the mansion was up for sale, the first thing that came to my mind was a targeted hit by would-be buyers seeking to bring down the asking price by branding the house as haunted. But I too admit that I know nothing about the actual, like, facts of the case.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I don't know a great deal about the Shermans. I do know, though, when you see the term "murder-suicide" you're generally also talking about domestic violence. Whether or not that's the case is still apparently under investigation.

6079_Smith_W

As I said, I think it is fair that you mentioned it for that very reason. But maybe it justifies the "media coverage" title that this is something leaked as an angle they were considering (irresponsible on the part of the cops), and which the press  just ran with, which is of course fair, because the cops mentioned it. But maybe they should have asked more questions.

If we want to use Occam's razor  it is in the realm of possibilities, especially since the cops are saying nothing about anyone else being in danger. But the investigation is not over.

It really only is an issue because the family has had this added to what they are already dealing with.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Again thank you Timebandit. The first thing that came to my mind was domestic violence. And yes it may come to pass that domestic violence is not involved in this apparent murder-suicide,  but it is the first thing that came to my mind as well, and this thread seemed preoccupied with seemingly irrelevant tangents. It took Legatta and Timebandit to address the issue and to finally give this thread some relevant context, IMO.

Unionist

Misfit wrote:
I haven't spent much time on this topic nor read any articles.

Timebandit wrote:
I don't know a great deal about the Shermans.

Unionist wrote:
I too admit that I know nothing about the actual, like, facts of the case.

6079_Smith_W wrote:
But the investigation is not over.

Timebandit wrote:
... the case is still apparently under investigation.

Family of Barry and Honey Sherman wrote:
We urge the Toronto Police Service to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation, and urge the media to refrain from further reporting as to the cause of these tragic deaths until the investigation is completed.
- Source.

I'm pleased to say I agree with all the above.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Murder/suicide. Called it right away when this hit the news. Question is,why would a billionaire commit suicide? You don't have a worry in the world which is something 99.9% of the rest of us don't have that luxury.

Or at any rate, you don't have a financial worry in the world.  And I guess if your biggest worries are financial worries then it might be tempting to imagine that if your bills are all paid for life, you have no worries now.

Doesn't that TOTALLY contradict the idea that money can't buy happiness? 

FWIW, I acknowledge that I have no specific information to add to this investigation.  On the one hand, it sounds like the Shermans had everything to live for, but  then when was the last time someone killed themself (or another, and themself) and everyone who knew them said "Oh, it's for the best.  S/he had nothing, really, and I'd have done the same"?  We seem to like to believe that everyone has something to live for.

WWWTT

Ken Burch wrote:

Thanks to whoever changed the thread title, btw.

Yes that was me that changed it. Too many posters complaining. So I figured I better comply with the vocal posters here and save other views opinions expressions experiences and writings for other forums that I participate on. I’ll expand on them there and not here. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
save other views opinions expressions experiences and writings for other forums that I participate on. I’ll expand on them there and not here.

Do post links, tho!  I'm sure we're all eager to hear how it was all about those Jews!

WWWTT

I find this case to be real odd? I also found it odd that Robin Williams killed himself and the front man for sound garden (forget his name now). But after hearing of their history with health issues it made more sense. Nothing like that has arisen yet about these people so I’m leaning towards murder from an unidentified individual(s)

WWWTT

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
save other views opinions expressions experiences and writings for other forums that I participate on. I’ll expand on them there and not here.

Do post links, tho!  I'm sure we're all eager to hear how it was all about those Jews!

Whats your problem Mr Magoo? What I touched on clearly is too sensitive a topic to be discussed at this forum. But regardless of your beliefs is very real. And not just from/for one group but many! It’s also very hard to prove! If it never existed there wouldn’t be the need for affirmative action and or employment equity.

6079_Smith_W

Maybe it is time to stop digging and put down the shovel.

Calling us "too sensitive" to join in on targetting people for being Jewish and saying it requires "affirmative action" is not helping you.

Yes racism has been around forever.  It's not because those lies are grounded in fact. It is because there is no shortage of haters and numbskulls willing to believe those lies if it makes them feel safer or more powerful. Everyone loves a scapegoat to blame their shit on.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Whats your problem Mr Magoo? What I touched on clearly is too sensitive a topic to be discussed at this forum. But regardless of your beliefs is very real. And not just from/for one group but many! It’s also very hard to prove! If it never existed there wouldn’t be the need for affirmative action and or employment equity.

That's super.  But all I asked for was a link to it.

WWWTT

Hi 6079 Smith. What are you talking about? Even MegB shut down a thread about white people talking about racism (or something like that). She must have felt that it was too much for babble for some reason or other to do that. I’m just going to leave it at that. If you want to dump on me go right ahead and knock yourselves out everyone

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Thanks to whoever changed the thread title, btw.

Yes that was me that changed it. Too many posters complaining. So I figured I better comply with the vocal posters here and save other views opinions expressions experiences and writings for other forums that I participate on. I’ll expand on them there and not here. 

 

Some forums are more accepting of certain "opinions" than Babble?! Readers Digest? Better Homes & GardensEbony?

Pogo Pogo's picture

I met someone this week who worked with him in a previous position. He was pretty cutthroat in the business world, but whether that was connected is anyone's guess.  

While I find discussion a little bit in poor taste, I must say that the one benefit that the ultra rich provide for the 99% is the ability to gossip freely about them.  I personally have had the good fortune of avoiding this problem by avoiding success (it is one of my core competencies).

 

NorthReport
Mobo2000

Today Pogo wins the internet:

"I must say that the one benefit that the ultra rich provide for the 99% is the ability to gossip freely about them.  I personally have had the good fortune of avoiding this problem by avoiding success (it is one of my core competencies)."

 

Unionist

Good point, Mobo2000. I've immortalized that victory here.

6079_Smith_W

At least we can feel guilt-free in writing them off as not real people, as opposed to getting off on Dr. Phil and similar poor-bashing stuff.

But yes, there but for the grace of bog....

WWWTT

Pogo wrote:

While I find discussion a little bit in poor taste, I must say that the one benefit that the ultra rich provide for the 99% is the ability to gossip freely about them.  I personally have had the good fortune of avoiding this problem by avoiding success (it is one of my core competencies).

 

Really? You define accumulating hordes of money as success? Despite the fault that I found in your comment, you still won the so called coveted "comment of the day" or the "winner of the internet" And in that is a small amount of success that will help you sleep good tonight! Enjoy your misplaced success.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
save other views opinions expressions experiences and writings for other forums that I participate on. I’ll expand on them there and not here.

Do post links, tho!  I'm sure we're all eager to hear how it was all about those Jews!

Whats your problem Mr Magoo? What I touched on clearly is too sensitive a topic to be discussed at this forum. But regardless of your beliefs is very real. And not just from/for one group but many! It’s also very hard to prove! If it never existed there wouldn’t be the need for affirmative action and or employment equity.

No.  The implication that Jews are given special privileges is not "very real".  It's a somewhere between a lie and a delusion.  What is "very real" is that there are a few people in the world who are lucky enough to be wealthy and privilged.  A handful of those people happen to be Jewish.  The vast majority are not.  And no one anywhere is wealthy or powerful or privileged simply because they happen to be Jewish.  There's no difference between a wealthy, powerful person who happens to be Jewish and a wealthy, powerful person is not.

And it goes without saying that the happenstance of this couple identifying as Jewish had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the media covered their deaths.  The deaths received media attention solely because the couple were wealthy.  The coverage would have been exactly the same if the couple had been wealthy and Catholic, wealthy and Anglican, wealthy and Muslim, wealthy and Hindu, wealthy and athiest, and even if they had been wealthy and worshippers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. 

I'll concede it might have been slightly different had they been wealthy and Druid...simply because the media would have wanted to see the funeral pyre or the burial mound and perhaps get a taste of the mead.

OK?

NDPP

Barry Sherman Was Under Investigation For Breaking Lobbying Rules

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/19/barry-sherman-was-under-inve...

"Only days before he died, Toronto billionaire Barry Sherman was attempting to quash an investigation into a political fundraiser he held for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau that allegedly ran afoul of lobbying rules..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Sherman, who was found dead along with his wife, Honey, at their house on Friday, had been under investigation by lobbying commissioner Karen Shepherd since October 2016, and was facing a possible five-year ban from lobbying

If I were facing the possibility of being banned from lobbying for half a decade, I'd crunch a cyanide pill too.  Why even wait for a verdict?

WWWTT

Well well well, look at what I came across!

“He was a deplorable human being,” said University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran, who published a comparison of Apotex’s domestic and overseas drug pricing.

“People tend to believe he did great things for generic drugs in Canada, but… Canadians pay more for generic drugs than almost every other country,” he said.

“He sought to manipulate our system to enrich himself and impoverish Canadian patients who used his drugs.”

From here

https://www.timesofisrael.com/barry-sherman-a-tycoon-who-revolutionized-...

So I had just had to find out who this character Amir Attaran is.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/university-of-ottawa-professor-...

In 2016, Attaran filed a complaint at the Canadian Human Rights Commission alleging that the federal government's Canada Research Chair program discriminated against women, visible minorities aboriginal people, and persons with disabilities. Attaran brought legal challenge after the CRC Program's decade-long failure to honour a settlement agreement signed by the government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, setting firm employment equity targets for these four groups.[31] The government under Prime Minister Justin Trudeausided with Attaran, and in 2017 Science Minister Kirsty Duncan announced that universities would be required either to increase diversity and meet the employment equity targets, or lose their federal CRC funding.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Attaran

Rev Pesky

Attaran is a bit over the top with his criticism of Sherman. In fact, the price of generics was set by a group of provinces who chose to set the price as a percentage of the 'brand name' drug, rather than putting the purchases out to tender.

According to a story in the Toronto Star

Canada is paying more than double for six commonly used generic drugs compared with other developed countries because of a “highly unusual” purchasing plan, according to a new study released Tuesday.

...The model implemented by the provinces and territories (except for Quebec) in April 2013 simply sets the price for the six generic drugs at 18 per cent of the price of the brand-name versions. At the time, the premiers, under the auspices of the Council of the Federation, said the six drugs represented 20 per cent of publicly funded spending on generic drugs and that the new spending plan was expected to save up to $100 million.

...Attaran, Canada Research Chair in law, population health and global development policy at the University of Ottawa, said there’s no question Canada has saved money, but said it could be saving even more if it adopted the approach most other countries do.

Which seems quite a ways from:

 “He was a deplorable human being,” said University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran, who published a comparison of Apotex’s domestic and overseas drug pricing.

...“He sought to manipulate our system to enrich himself and impoverish Canadian patients who used his drugs.”

Sherman was an avid suer of anybody and everybody, but many of those lawsuits were to wrest control of drug patents from 'brand name' companies. That may have been strictly for his own purposes, but Canadians did save money because of those efforts. And by the way, so did many other people around the world.That doesn't make him a saint, but also doesn't make him a 'deplorable'.

 

WWWTT

Hi Rev Pesky. Unless you can provide a link to support your beliefs here, I don’t really buy it. Even the link you provided suggests that Canadians are getting royaly screwed and the provinces don’t want to talk about it which to me suggests that there’s probably something more to this story that may incriminate the provinces even further. Now we all know that all levels of government just love political donations! And Sherman was not shy about this and was involved!  I’d be really interested to see his political contributions at all levels in Canada. And those of his companies and employees staff etc etc. 

NDPP

My concern is with Zionist capture of Canadian foreign policy for Israel.  Zionist oligarchs such as Sherman and Bronfman have great power and influence over such matters, inside and outside government circles, as we see not only in Canada but in the penetration of the American political system as well. This is simply a fact, not a conspiracy theory, and the results are obvious and made manifest in the malevolent power that is the Jewish state of Israel, to stoke or foment regional wars, and viciously consume Palestine with impunity. It should be a developmental task of every Canadian progressive to arrest this process. Support for Israel, and from whatever quarter it comes, as was the case of Apartheid South Africa, must be stopped.

lagatta4

What has this got to do with the topic at hand????

In no way do conspiracy theories about Jewish "oligarchs" help the Palestinian cause. I' ve been involved in Palestine solidarity for decades.

As you should know, there is just as much support for Zionism among evangelical Christians as there is in SOME Jewish circles. Harper is a Canadian example, as is the outrightly antisemitic Stockwell Day. Now this extends to a certain type of far-right Catholic, "more Catholic than the Pope" and hating the current Pope (Scheer and Kenney are examples of that). Sure, one can and should call out any individual or any organisation (not all of them Jewish by any means) that denies the Palestinian people's right to self-determination, but crap about (Jewish) oligarchs (of all things) poisons the Palestinian cause by associating it by antisemitism.

It also undoes the protracted efforts of progressive Jews, and allies, to convince Jewish people that pride in their identity and history and the struggle against antisemitism does not depend on uncritical support for Israel, or for any other State. There has been a spate of hateful messaging and threats against synagogues and against mosques, and we should take the opportunity to build solidarity among groups targeted by hate groups or unhinged individuals.

Should I even have to be repeating this at a progressive site?

lagatta4

Deleted (doublon).

6079_Smith_W

lagatta4 wrote:

Should I even have to be repeating this at a progressive site?

Evidently yes, even if some seem to think this is a subject too sensitive to be challenged. Though clearly it isn't too sensitive for the smears to continue being repeated.

As for the connection, I guess for some tragic death is a perfect opportunity to bring up everything you don't like about the victim, and all your prejudices against them. No one has come right out and said they think it is a good thing they are gone, but why else bring it up?

Speaking of which, when are we going to get all those threads about the deaths of poor people that we are supposedly ignoring by focusing on the rich and famous?  That was the stated grievance here, right? Rich people dying and taking media space away from those who deserve it.

Instead, we are still talking about bad rich people.

Unionist

I abhor misogyny, Zionism, and the dictatorship of the rich. But I try not to impose those beliefs on every news item that flashes across the screen. I find all the posts in this thread that speculate on the as-yet-unknown underlying cause of these deaths to be disrespectful and equivalent to trash journalism.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Here is my plan. We avoid posting on this thread, it disappears into the archives and we never have to be reminded of how low we have sunk.

oldgoat

Hello everyone.  Just read this thread.  I'm moderating for a bit right now, while Meg has gone to Belgium to get her elbows waxed or something.  Or more likely in bed with a stack of Harliquen Romance books and a mug of Grappa.

Just some thoughts.  First, from a mod point of view, I don't really see how the Jewishness of the deceased couple really plays into things.  Several posters above have articulated why quite well.  Their politics is pretty dreadful, but not so out of line with a lot of neo-liberal capitalist pro zionist folk from many faith groups.  I'd like it if we could move beyond that.

The point was raised about making light of domestic violence.  As I have not been following this I don't know if or where that comes into things, but I hope we all know we don't make light of domestic violence, despite wealth or social status.

No idea what the original thread title was, and I probably don't want to.

Now, I'm probably as much an expert on suicide as anyone on this board, and I can tell you that mental turmoil or depression knows no class bounderies.  It's about as democratic as the inevitability of death.

Another random observation, I came across an article not long ago about how apotex quashed some uncomfortable information about a drug trial being conducted as Sick Kids Hosp a number of years back.  When a Dr. running the trial felt obligated to tell families about potential health risks, they intentionally tried to destroy her reputation.  He's as much a cut throat businassman as anyone.  No idea how or if this is relevant.

This thread started as a discussion about media coverage, which I believe has been sketchy and confusing.  What we seem to have here is a thread operating in a bit of an information vacuum, and thus going off in a lot of strange directions.

 

 

Unionist

oldgoat wrote:

The point was raised about making light of domestic violence.  As I have not been following this I don't know if or where that comes into things, but I hope we all know we don't make light of domestic violence, despite wealth or social status.

Welcome as always, oldgoat!

No one in this thread has "made light of domestic violence". Nor have I seen one single hint of evidence, or even speculation, that these particular deaths had some connection with domestic violence. So your moderatorial reminder to not make light of domestic violence is appreciated, but misplaced and unnecessary.

This is simply a case where the media have gone splash-crazy because the story is still unknown, and the deceased are billionaires, Jews, pharma bigshots, etc. That's guaranteed clickbait for the MSM, and apparently now for babble as well.

My personal theory as to the inside story behind the deat

oldgoat

ok, didn't see it myself, but someone upthread mentioned it. 

 

edited to add:  Just re read unionists last sentence. (hopefully not the very last)  IT'S THE ILLUMINAT

 

 

WWWTT

Thanks for your input oldgoat. The media angle towards this story, I felt was more relevant the weekend when this occurred. Since then as like almost all stories it has evolved and changed around. I’m trying to keep any comments in this thread related to this topic. As far as domestic violence and mental health issues go, there was rumours of such but I have not found any evidence of previous history that would indicate or support this theory. There are a couple posters including myself that are sincerely trying to dig up the dealings of these characters involved to try and shed light as to what would cause the unnatural deaths of two people who have been proven to have benefited from manipulation. I posted a very powerful link (actually a couple) one about the lack of media attention that domestic violence gets and another about a very prominent qualified persons criticism of Sherman. This same person was also the victim of racism prejudice and bigotry. As a result of their pursuit for justice they brought a successful lawsuit against a proven racist sexist institutions! This is all fully related and sheds very important light into this mystery. 

To me it appears that there are posters here that are only interested in shutting this thread down. Please don’t shut this thread down sir!  I feel we are making some progress. Thank you

oldgoat

okee dokee. Doesn't entirely strike me as a thread that fully knows what it's about, or at least there is no unanimity on that point.

 

JKR

NDPP wrote:

My concern is with Zionist capture of Canadian foreign policy for Israel.  Zionist oligarchs such as Sherman and Bronfman have great power and influence over such matters, inside and outside government circles, as we see not only in Canada but in the penetration of the American political system as well. This is simply a fact, not a conspiracy theory, and the results are obvious and made manifest in the malevolent power that is the Jewish state of Israel, to stoke or foment regional wars, and viciously consume Palestine with impunity. It should be a developmental task of every Canadian progressive to arrest this process. Support for Israel, and from whatever quarter it comes, as was the case of Apartheid South Africa, must be stopped.

 

I think Canadian progressives see that antisemitism is unfortunately alive and well in Canada and throughout the world. I think many progressives also see that Israel has an essential role to play in safeguarding Jewish people throughout the world.

Unionist

JKR wrote:

I think Canadian progressives see that antisemitism is unfortunately alive and well in Canada and throughout the world.

Definitely, but one must add the caveat that there are extreme reactionary forces that try to vilify criticism of Israeli policy by calling it "anti-semitism".

Quote:
I think many progressives also see that Israel has an essential role to play in safeguarding Jewish people throughout the world.

You know, JKR, I know many people whom I'd call "progressive" who are supporters of Israel and its right to exist with the same recognition and legitimacy as any other state - although being progressive, they are of course also strongly opposed to Israel's occupation, acts of aggression and discrimination, etc.

But you raise an interesting point.

I cannot in all honesty think of a single progressive person, no matter how personally pro-Zionist they may be, who advocates that "Israel has an essential role to play in safeguarding Jewish people throughout the world". And trust me, I know lots of Jews, progressive and otherwise, and lots of progressives, Jewish or not.

So without diverting too widely from the theme of this salacious thread, perhaps you could grace me with just a few names of the "many progressives" that you allege hold this non-intuitive belief. Public figures, of course - unless you were just referring to personal acquaintances.

6079_Smith_W

Thanks Old Goat.

I don't know if it is a case of not knowing what it is about so much as throwing whatever is at hand against the wall to see what will stick.

Personally, my gut reaction to this is not defending the privileged, but rather considering how any family would feel dealing with a tragedy like this and not knowing, and having that made worse by uproven speculation by police and media who should know better.

As for the rest of it, the old maxim about not wishing this on my worst enemy springs to mind. But for those not so inclined I still have to question the logic of complaining about a media frenzy serving the rich, and yet continuing to feed that frenzy.

If that is your stated goal, are there not suffering people more worthy of our attention? Or is that just an excuse to carry on the snipe hunt of proving how bad these rich people were?

(edit)

And yes Unionist. I was wondering about that too. I know a lot of people use that trope, but the fact is whatever frictions existed between these communities only got a lot worse after the imperialists got involved.

6079_Smith_W

Speaking of the ignored, there was a young man killed here in Saskatchewan a little over a year ago. The media assumption in that case had less to do with the fact he was shot than the false assumption that he must have been there to steal, and that local farmers were concerned about crime. The cops made the same assumption when they barged into his mothers house to search the place, rather than inform her of her loss, as they probably would have done had the victim not been indigenous.

So while it is a bit different depending on whether one is rich or poor, there are assumptions and mistakes made in both cases.

JKR

Unionist wrote:

JKR wrote:

I think Canadian progressives see that antisemitism is unfortunately alive and well in Canada and throughout the world.

Definitely, but one must add the caveat that there are extreme reactionary forces that try to vilify criticism of Israeli policy by calling it "anti-semitism".

Quote:
I think many progressives also see that Israel has an essential role to play in safeguarding Jewish people throughout the world.

You know, JKR, I know many people whom I'd call "progressive" who are supporters of Israel and its right to exist with the same recognition and legitimacy as any other state - although being progressive, they are of course also strongly opposed to Israel's occupation, acts of aggression and discrimination, etc.

But you raise an interesting point.

I cannot in all honesty think of a single progressive person, no matter how personally pro-Zionist they may be, who advocates that "Israel has an essential role to play in safeguarding Jewish people throughout the world". And trust me, I know lots of Jews, progressive and otherwise, and lots of progressives, Jewish or not.

So without diverting too widely from the theme of this salacious thread, perhaps you could grace me with just a few names of the "many progressives" that you allege hold this non-intuitive belief. Public figures, of course - unless you were just referring to personal acquaintances.

 

I think Israel safeguards Jews throughout the world by allowing Jewish people who are persecuted in other countries to emigrate to Israel. I thought many other progressives would think likewise but I may be wrong about that. I'm not sure if a survey has ever been done asking people, progressive or otherwise, if they think Israel provides a refuge to Jews who want to leave their country. It seems to me that Israel was created as a consequence of the Holocaust so Israel's role as a safe haven for Jewish people is commonly accepted but I may be wrong about that.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think that given JKR's view on the reason for supporting Israel I suggest we all start demanding a homeland for the Roma to immigrate to. Maybe carve a nice territory out of two or three of the Eastern European countries where they have suffered for centuries in the same manner as Jewish people. Of course the Roma are not the Chosen so they can just go "f" themselves as far as "progressive" people are concerned.

lagatta4

Firstly, I agree with kropotkin about the Roma, who not only suffered persecution and pogroms just as the Jewish people did, but were also targeted for utter destruction by the Nazi regime, and many scholars now contend that their losses were proportional to those of the Jews. And the terrible thing is that discrimination and outright persecution of the Roma people is continuing nowadays in some Central European countries. (see Karl Nerenberg's documentary Never Come Back).

This is a coincidence, as just before I checked in to rabble, I got seasonal greetings from an old friend in Buenos Aires, who had managed to survive persecution by the dictatorship. He was a young radical leftist (not a Montanero), moreover he is of Polish-Jewish origin, and there have been even more revelations about the extent to which the junta were obsessed with a Jewish plot against the Argentine homeland ... and the complicity of a certain Henry Kissinger. My friend's family were from Warsaw, and every member of his extended family was murdered except for his mother and father.  Another friend did flee to Israel (he was of German-Jewish origin) but nowadays he is a firm supporter of the Palestinian cause. No, he doesn't want the Israelis "cast into the sea" and thinks there is practically no risk of that happening. My friends were certainly in a position to be terrified of persecution not only for political beliefs but because of the rabid antisemitism of the regime, but certainly have at least an ambiguous position about Israel as a place of refuge and certainly identify with the plight of the Palestinians, who were not responsible for the persecution or genocide of Jewish Europeans.

My friend had to go underground several times during the Dirty War... I couldn't help imagining how his parents felt back then.

6079_Smith_W

Though kropotkin's point might be that if everyone who suffered persecution did this, not only would it not solve the problem, it would be unworkable. Of course, that's not really the reason they established that state, even if it is the excuse.

 

Rev Pesky

Fromm WWWTT:

Hi Rev Pesky. Unless you can provide a link to support your beliefs here, I don’t really buy it.

I'm not sure what 'beliefs' I expressed. Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. That would at least allow me to respond.

WWWTT

You downplayed Amir Attaran’s comments about Apotex. And oddly cross reference a TS article that supports Attarans opinion?

Now we all have opinions but why did you use an article that went against your view?

Heres some of my view on this. I’m under the impression that Sherman has been using political donations to win favour in manipulating the industry in Canada/provinces to increase his profits. I also believe he’s been using charities universities and hospitals to also manipulate 

Feel free to disagree with me, but I believe many are familiar with this. If and or when I come across relevant info I’ll be sure to post!

6079_Smith_W

I know everyone loves a good conspiracy theory. Thing is, accusations like that - specifically about charities and universities - made without the relevant information aren't as simple as "your opinion".

They could be taken by some to be libellous, which affects not only you, but this site. Sherman may no longer be here, but his company sure is.

 

Unionist

JKR wrote:

I think Israel safeguards Jews throughout the world by allowing Jewish people who are persecuted in other countries to emigrate to Israel. I thought many other progressives would think likewise but I may be wrong about that. I'm not sure if a survey has ever been done asking people, progressive or otherwise, if they think Israel provides a refuge to Jews who want to leave their country. It seems to me that Israel was created as a consequence of the Holocaust so Israel's role as a safe haven for Jewish people is commonly accepted but I may be wrong about that.

Ok, since every sentence in that paragraph is false, I'll just take a breather before reminding you of the facts. Or maybe not bother, given that this conversation originated in a few babblers' breathy need to invent and repeat trash talk about the unnatural death of two individuals.

Rev Pesky

From WWWTT:

You downplayed Amir Attaran’s comments about Apotex. And oddly cross reference a TS article that supports Attarans opinion?

Now we all have opinions but why did you use an article that went against your view?

Pardon me, I didn't downplay Attaran's comments. I merely pointed out that he declared Sherman to be deplorable because he 'manipulated' drug pricing in this country, while at the same time declaring that it was the provinces that were the problem. I mean, you gotta make up your mind.

In fact it was the provinces that used a policy of across the board pricing (18% of brand name pricing) rather than tendering or negotiating with the manufacture.

Oh yes, and the article also pointed out that Canadidan consumers saved roughly $100 million by using those genereic drugs instead of brand name. 

I pointed out that at least some of the lawsuits Sherman engaged in were suits to allow him to manufacture generic equivalents of drugs, which ended up saving Canadians a lot of money. As I said, I believe he did that for his own purposes, but Canadians benefitted, nevertheless.

In any case, everything I said was fully supported by both articles in the Toronto Star. As opposed, say, to someone speculating, with no basis, that the provinces were steered in that direction by political donations.

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