As to Tina Fontaine, one of the serious problems the prosecution had was they couldn't determine the cause of death. Usually when someone kills someone else, there are signs of what took place.
Now, I don't know what lengths the pathologist went to in the autopsy, but there would have been signs of violence if that was how Fontaine died. In any case, without a cause of death, convicting someone of murder is much more difficult.
Mansplaining is when a male person (often coincides with whiteness, although not always) confidently explains something to a female person who is in a position to understand what is being explained better than he does.
Not a difficult concept.
For reference - the woman who coined the term and the circumstances around it:
https://www.motherjones.com/media/2012/08/problem-men-explaining-things-...
Mansplaining is when a male person (often coincides with whiteness, although not always) confidently explains something to a female person who is in a position to understand what is being explained better than he does.
Thanks for that, it's close. But what it *really* means is...
Yeah...
Also, it's not hard to tell who's a white guy on here. Not necessarily obnoxious, but yer all waaaay more obvious than you think. Not holding it against anyone, just noting that it's detectable.
From TimeBandit:
Mansplaining is when a male person (often coincides with whiteness, although not always) confidently explains something to a female person who is in a position to understand what is being explained better than he does.
Not a difficult concept.
So if a woman confidently explained something to a male, when the male was in a position to better understand what is being explained, that would be, what? Femsplaining?
I'll just point out that on a discussion board such as this, where people are more or less anonymous, it's very difficult to know whether some other person knows more or less than yourself about any given topic. People are invited to offer their opinions and views, and do so without necessarily knowing what level of knowledge others on the board have.
I can understand that in a setting such as company meetings, where some junior engineer is constantly explaining to the female head of the engineering department what's what, that one could call that'mansplaining.
It's also important to remember that the phenomena is not limited to men explaining to women. There are women who are just as bad, and just as obnoxious..
From the above posted article by Rebecca Solnit:
I still don’t know why Sallie and I bothered to go to that party in the forest slope above Aspen. The people were all older than us and dull in a distinguished way, old enough that we, at 40ish, passed as the occasion’s young ladies.
Is this ageist? Sure looks like it to me.
The reverse scenario happens rarely enough that it is not likely an irritant to most men. That’s the point. It happens to accomplished women all the time.
From Timebandit:
The reverse scenario happens rarely enough that it is not likely an irritant to most men. That’s the point. It happens to accomplished women all the time.
Now that is classical femsplaining'. A woman (if you're not a woman, my apologies) explaining to a man how often men get 'explained' to.
Bite me.
“Femsplaining” exists the same way “reverse racism” does - in the imaginations of those who have difficulty with the idea that they might be part of a prejudiced culture.
Femsplaining isn't reverse anything. It is a word describing a situation where a women explains something to a man, when the man already better understands what is being explained.
For instance, when a woman tells a man how often the man gets 'explained' to.
Clearly you are right about us understanding this better, Rev. Men were warning about "despotism of the petticoat" 200 years ago. Maybe Adams was anticipating Ms. Wollstonecraft, and her pushy assertion that she knew our business better than we do. They just don't understand we have had to suffer with this burden for centuries.
Depend upon it, we know better than to repeal our masculine systems. Although they are in full force, you know they are little more than theory...We are obliged to go fair and softly, and, in practice, you know we are the subjects. We have only the name of masters, and rather than give up this, which would completely subject us to the despotism of the petticoat, I hope General Washington and all our brave heroes would fight.
https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/11/a-cultural-history-of-...
Anyway, this has been an interesting bit of drift, unless we want to draw this back on topic by pointing out how Indigenous women don't understand how hard police and the courts work, they are very technical fields, and they can't be expected to solve every one of these murders and disappearances.
From 6079_Smith_W:
Clearly you are right about us understanding this better, Rev.
And if that is what I had said, the rest of your post might have a point. I was very clear that no one other than myself can know how often I've been 'explained' to by women. According to Timebandit's definition of 'splaining', I was being 'splained' to.
I've also been clear that in a forum such as this, where people are more or less anonymous, it is inevitable that one may express an opinion on a subject which some other forum participant has greater knowledge. If each forum participant had to wait to find out the level of knowledge of all other posters before commenting, there wouldn't be many comments on this thread, or any other thread for that matter.
So bringing up 'splaining' is just a way of closing down debate when someone makes a point you don't like.
Now, to bring it back to Tina Fontaine, I would like someone to explain to me why I should care more about her than her birth parents did?
Before someone goes off on a rant, I do care. In fact I would say I care a lot. Tina Fontaine's life was short and tragic. As far as I'm concerned, no child should be forced to live such a life, but you, and others, appear to be blaming Child Protection for her untimely death. My question is, do not her parents have some level of responsibility for her welfare?
When I pointed that out to Pondering, I was told that I was disgusting because after all, Tina's mom was an alcoholic and therefore couldn't be responsible for anything (except having babies, I guess).
It is clear that the authorities did not have the right to confine Tina Fontaine. If they had, the police could have arrested her when she was found in an obviously criminal situation with an older man. And if they had, she would most likely be alive today. In my opinion, as bad as it is, it would have been better for her to have been in jail, than to have been found in the river.
As far as Cormier's trial, and acquttal, it was going to be difficult because they had no cause of death. For someone to commit a murder and leave no trace of the method used is almost impossible. Combine that with the paucity of circumstantial evidence the prosecution had, and it would have been a miscarriage of justice if Cormier had been convicted.
In fact it's quite possible Tina died from an alcohol overdose. Alcohol may have been given her by some other person, which would make them at least partially culpable, but finding such a person would be near impossible without some eyewitness. Sad as it is to say, if anyone was responsible for Tina Fontaine's death, they are very unlikely to be brought to justice.
That doesn't mean no one cares. It means the system of laws and justice we have operates on evidence, as it should.
Now, to bring it back to Tina Fontaine, I would like someone to explain to me why I should care more about her than her birth parents did?
Her father had been murdered and her mother did not have custody of her because she was unfit to do so. When she went to Winnipeg, she was under the legal guardianship of child protection services. She was a vulnerable teen in their care and it is well documented in this thread that there were several mis-steps along the way that contributed to her being murdered. I posted an interview with a young woman who survived the streets who described how she lost trust in the very people she turned to when she tried to reach out for help. Why don't you try reading that and getting back to us?
For someone to commit a murder and leave no trace of the method used is almost impossible. Combine that with the paucity of circumstantial evidence the prosecution had, and it would have been a miscarriage of justice if Cormier had been convicted.
Are you serious? Her body was found wrapped in a duvet in the river. Bodies don't wrap themselves up and throw themselves in the river. Someone had to have done that to her.
If they had, the police could have arrested her when she was found in an obviously criminal situation with an older man. And if they had, she would most likely be alive today. In my opinion, as bad as it is, it would have been better for her to have been in jail, than to have been found in the river.
Except that the police did have probable cause to detain her when they pulled her over and the officers involved were suspended because they failed to do so. One of them had such a downward spiral afterwards because of that that he tunred to a life of crime. The judge in that case told him that it was not only his mistake. If the officers didn't have probable cause, the judge would have said something along the lines of, "given what you knew then, you didn't have legal grounds to detain her, you couldn't have known what was going to happen, so don't beat yourself up about it."
A 24 hour youth drop in centre in Winnipeg is being forced to close overnight, as funding is runing out.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/west-end-24-hour-safe-space-fundi...
From Aristotleded24:
Are you serious? Her body was found wrapped in a duvet in the river. Bodies don't wrap themselves up and throw themselves in the river. Someone had to have done that to her.
You're quite right, but you're mistaking 'interfering with a body' for 'homicide'. I think it's quite plausible that Tina Fontaine died while in the company of some person who for their own reasons disposed of the body. The question is, what did she die from, and the answer is no one knows. As I said, killing someone without leaving traces of your murderous effort is near impossible. Yet the autopsy found no cause of death. I don't think Tina Fontaine was murdered.
Here is a story of what happened after the police saw Fontaine with the man in that vehicle:
Favel said social workers have told her that on the night of Aug. 8 — which would be a few hours after police came across Fontaine — the girl had passed out in an alley downtown and paramedics took her to a nearby hospital.
"They kept her there for about three or four hours until she sobered up a little bit and then (social workers) picked her up from the hospital."
That appears to have been the last time she was seen alive. Fontaine managed to run away again shortly after leaving the hospital, Favel said.
So even though the police failed to apprehend her, she still ended up back at the hotel. From where she ran away again.
If the police had taken her into custody at the traffic stop, precisely the same thing would have happened. She would have been referred to Child Services, they would have picked her up at the police station, and she would have run away again.
One of the solutions offered for this dismal situation is to turn over aboriginal child welfare to First Nations authority. I can say I am all in favour of that. They could hardly do worse.
Anishinaabe CFS has been around for several decades, as has Metis CFS. But the bulk of it, especially in the city, falls under general CFS. And the entire system is lacking in resources, and unfairly targets Indigenous people.
Anishinaabe CFS has been around for several decades, as has Metis CFS. But the bulk of it, especially in the city, falls under general CFS. And the entire system is lacking in resources, and unfairly targets Indigenous people.
I think, be they indigenous run or non-indigenous run, CFS systems will continue to be overwhelmed as long as social assistance continues to provide inadequate coverage.
I don't think Tina Fontaine was murdered.
Just, wow, what was that based on? I remember when her body as first pulled from the river and the police were very clear then that they were investigating the case of a homicide. Why would they have pushed the case to trial when there would have been several chances to rule that out, or at least conclude that "foul play was not suspected" given that that would have been the easiest thing for the police to do?
As I said, killing someone without leaving traces of your murderous effort is near impossible.
A jury has found Dellen Millard and Mark Smich guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Toronto woman Laura Babcock.
The Ontario Superior Court jury began deliberating Tuesday afternoon and returned their verdict Saturday.
The Crown argued during the trial that lasted seven weeks that Millard, 32, of Toronto, and Smich, 30, of Oakville, Ont., killed the 23-year-old Babcock and burned her body in an animal incinerator.
...
Babcock's body was never found, so there is no way to prove beyond reasonable doubt she is dead.
There was also a case in Brandon where a guy essentially murdered his girlfriend and disposed of her body without a trace. It was not for lack of effort on the part of Brandon police that they couldn't find anything to go on. The autopsy in that particular case didn't clearly identify a cause of death, but did rule out a few of them. The only reason he was caught is because the RCMP targetted him using a Mr Big sting where he told them where she was buried and he confessed to specific details only someone close to the killing would have known. If it wasn't for that, she would still be considered missing to this day.
From Aristotly24:
Babcock's body was never found, so there is no way to prove beyond reasonable doubt she is dead.
You're confusing two things here. Yes, it is possible to convict someone of murder even if the body of the victim is never found. In the case of Laura Babcock there was other evidence, including communications between Millard and Smich.
That is not the case with Tina Fontaine. Her body was found, and an autopsy was performed. Cause of death was not determined. Given the paucity of other evidence, and no cause of death, Cormier was not going to be convicted.
What I said was that it was difficult, if not impossible, to kill someone without leaving evidence of how it was done. Okay, I didn't say you could dispose of the body so that it would never be found. In fact, that is precisely why Millard and Smich did dispose of the body. They did not want to leave any evidence of their crime.
I assumed that because the body of Tina Fontaine was found, and an autopsy performed without finding a cause of death, that there is a chance that she was not murdered. Can we agree that finding the body, and being able to perform an autopsy will provide more information about the person's death than not having the body at all?
Given Fontaine's history with alcohol, it is not an unreasonable assumption that she died of alcohol poisoning.
There was also a case in Brandon where a guy essentially murdered his girlfriend and disposed of her body without a trace. It was not for lack of effort on the part of Brandon police that they couldn't find anything to go on. The autopsy in that particular case didn't clearly identify a cause of death, but did rule out a few of them.
You say he disposed of her body without a trace, then you mention an autopsy. Those would seem to be contradictory?
Anyhoo, Pesky is right. If the Fontaine autopsy couldn't find a cause of death, there's no cause of death to pin on any defendant. If lots and lots of other evidence is strong, like in the Babcock case, then a conviction might be possible, but if not, conviction would not be.
The Inquiry is starting its second phase, focusing on human rights, government services, racism, and policing:
http://www.mmiwg-ffada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/PartsIIandIII_NewsR...
Children's advocate issues report:
The report notes Fontaine came into contact with victim services in the wake of her father's death, the education system, mental health services and Child and Family Services.
The investigation found at times, particularly in the final months of her life, those services failed to provide the support and interventions Fontaine desperately needed.
“The event that changed Tina’s life was the violent and sudden death of her father,” said Penrose. “This was the experience that many people who knew Tina look to when they think back to when things started to change for her.”
The report found victim services didn’t follow through with providing counselling sessions to Fontaine after her father’s death and never met directly with her in the two and a half years in which they were involved with her family.
It found chronic absenteeism in school increased after her father died and there was no coordinated plan to help Fontaine at a time when it was evident her struggles were growing.
A Winnipeg jury has found Brett Overby guilty of second-degree murder in the 2016 death of Christine Wood.
Melinda Wood, the 21-year-old's mother, cried as the verdict was announced shortly before 2:30 p.m. Wednesday — just over two hours after the jury began deliberations.
Overby, 32, was charged with the crime in April 2017.
Wood, who was from Oxford House First Nation, was last seen by her parents in Winnipeg on Aug. 19, 2016. She met Overby that evening on the online dating website Plenty of Fish.
Hopefully he will spend the rest of his days behind bars without any of that parole crap that Corrections Canada sometimes does.
Finally.
Thompson RCMP ask for help in solving a year-old homicide:
Bobbie Lynn Moose, whose body was found in Thompson, Man., last October, may have known the person or people responsible for her death, police say....
The 29-year-old mother of two was dropped off by her sister at the Thompson Walmart on Oct. 1 and planned to stay with friends in the northern Manitoba city, about 650 kilometres north of Winnipeg, for three weeks.
Her body was found near Nelson Road on Oct. 17.
Investigators are looking for any information about what Moose was doing, where she was and who she was with between the time she was dropped off at Walmart and the day her body was found.
Police have not said how she died.
Thompson unfortunately seems to be a provincial hotspot when it comes to unsolved homicides. I also remember seeing a great many such posters at the train station when I passed through there last year.
Thompson is a hub so there are lots of people who are passing through that town (some for the day or a few, others for a few weeks at a time, and others for longer work terms) making it more of a challenge to solve crimes. And unlike other urban centres, there is no rough part of town to avoid since the majority of the town proper is kind of rough. I think there are some nice homes beyond the core town (where people involved with the mining company could afford to live).
Women depart Victoria for nationwide walk to honour missing, murdered Indigenous women
With the scent of sage drifting across the gentle breeze, Krista Fox read name after name after name of individuals and their families she will think of often as she walks across the country. They’re the names of missing and murdered people, shared with Fox by those who loved them – still love them.
The Saskatchewan woman embarked on a trek across the nation on Feb. 18 to raise awareness for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls (MMIWG). Standing at Mile Zero in Miqen (Beacon Hill Park), Fox started with: “Today and always I will honour you.”
The first name was Ashley Morin, 31, who went missing from North Battleford, Sask. in July 2018. Each year since, Fox has walked the 100 kilometres from North Battleford to Saskatoon in honour of the close family friend.
Last year, she met Lindsey Bishop there.
quote:
Fox initially planned to walk across the nation solo, but felt compelled to invite Bishop. So the pair found themselves at the start of the Trans-Canada Highway where Lekwungen drummers and myriad community members welcomed them and their team – laying a solid foundation for the walk to start. As is tradition, gifts were exchanged, and words of wisdom shared.
Fox, Bishop and a large group of supporters walked to the legislature before heading up Island. Supporters can help fund the walk at gofundme.com/f/vr84yd-kristas-kilometres-for-mmiw which aims to raise $100,000. TikTok users can watch for live updates at her handle @kristafox68 or find Krista’s Kilometres on Facebook for updates.
..nation walk update
feb 20 - We are up and ready for the day here in Nanaimo B.C just about to start walking to the ferry to head to Vancouver.
feb 22 - Good morning everyone, we are in Vancouver today and will be walking out of here. Our start time is 9am.
..nation walk update. feb 26
..nation walk update. tomorrow meaning today..mar 1st
quote:
We had a good rest day. We were invited to chawathil first nation this evening where they fed us, gave us gifts and made sure we were sent off in a good way. Tomorrow we pack up and head off leaving Hope behind to start walking to our next destination, spuzzum first nation.
..some pics posted 1 day ago.
..nation walk update. today.
So fog is thick today, and we are a couple days ahead of ourselves so we are going to stay in Kamloops today and try walk out tomorrow, so if you are near the Kamloops area stop in and say hi! Much love to you all
..nation walk update. from yesterday.
We have landed!!! We are at thehotel/casino in Morley,,,,AND man am I wiped!!! Lots of km today,,, thank you to Chief Tanya and crew and also Stephanie from Brocket ( she lost 2 daughters to murder within a year) she sang beautiful songs, blessed us with prayers. THAT I TELL YOU IS WHY WE ARE OUT HERE,, My heart breaks for you Stephanie, and we are walking for your girls ,much love sister.
..update from yesterday.
Well Red Deer thank you so the hospitality, over the next 5 to 6 days we will make our way to Edmonton ,,,see you soon
..update
..update. yesterday.
quote:
Well today we will walk out of North Battleford, 9 am from the museum. Thank you to the Battleford s, BATC, NORTHWEST COLLEGE AND EVERYONE ELSE who welcomed us home. Thank you to BATC, Poundmaker FN, the City and town for the generous donation you have helped lift our spirits and put spunk back in our step!!! I will always be proud to be from the BATTLEFORDS.
Washington creates first statewide alert system for missing Indigenous people
Washington Gov. Jay Inslee on Thursday signed into law a bill that creates a first-in-the-nation statewide alert system for missing Indigenous people, to help address a silent crisis that has plagued Indian Country in this state and nationwide.
The law sets up a system similar to Amber Alerts and so-called silver alerts, which are used respectively for missing children and vulnerable adults in many states. It was spearheaded by Democratic Rep. Debra Lekanoff, the only Native American lawmaker currently serving in the Washington state Legislature, and championed by Indigenous leaders statewide.
“I am proud to say that the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women’s and People’s Alert System came from the voices of our Native American leaders,” said Lekanoff, a member of the Tlingit tribe and the bill’s chief sponsor. “It’s not just an Indian issue, it’s not just an Indian responsibility. Our sisters, our aunties, our grandmothers are going missing every day ... and it’s been going on for far too long.”.....
Well we made it to Lumsden today, will be in Regina tomorrow,,,Wednesday we will be walking from Cree Land gas bar 9 am to the legislative come join us!
Today is #RedDressDay for #MMIWG. Inuit women experience violence at a rate 14x higher than the national average. Inuit women know the solutions to ending this tragedy + we must be at the forefront of implementing + monitoring progress on the MMIWG Inuit Action Plan.
..yesterday
Krista’s Kilometres for MMIW
We have made it to Winnipeg and with today being red dress day we are walking currently walking from the edge of the city to downtown. Where we will be joining the walk the river for mmiw event.
Krista’s Kilometres for MMIW
Hello everyone, it has been a bit of a stressful week. We did make our way out of Winnipeg and did make it to the centre of Canada. The RV however was acting up so at the end of our day of walking we decided to head back to Winnipeg for the night and get it looked at. It turned out to be a fairly major issue and we decided to find somewhere to store it until it can get worked on. The last dew days we have been working on a plan to get moving again. We are now just waiting for Krista's vehicle (the one we started our journey) to be brought to Winnipeg and we will be continuing on with the two SUVs.
MMIWG national inquiry lacked federal support from the beginning says former chief commissioner
There were indications the federal government was not taking the national inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls seriously, even before it had called its first witness according to the former chief commissioner.
“The federal government was not at all ready for the work that we had to do and to help us do it,” says Marion Buller on the latest episode of Face to Face.
Buller says when she started in her role as chief commissioner on Sept. 1, 2016, the commissioners were using their own cell phones and emails, there were no offices and no staff. It would take another nine months to get things up and running.
“It was an indication of the lack of high priority given to the national inquiry,” says Buller.
Over the next two and a half years, the MMIWG inquiry was faced with numerous resignations, including one of the commissioners, and delays.
Buller says the media, rather than focusing on the work being done, “turned our work into some sort of reality show of who was still left on the island.”
The national inquiry was originally given 28 months but Buller says nine months was lost due to a lack of resources at the beginning.
Commissioners, knowing the two-year timeline was too tight, requested a two-year extension. The federal government provided the national inquiry with an additional six months.
Buller feels much more could have been done with an additional two years, including looking into the impact of poverty, the incarceration of Indigenous women and girls, and more.
“The impact of man camps, for example on Indigenous women and girls and Two-Spirit people’s safety. Those are those large ATCO hut settlements that come up, sort of overnight, next to mines and other resource extraction projects,” she says.
“We just barely skim the surface of human trafficking and how that impacts the safety of Indigenous women and girls and Two-Spirit people. We needed to do a lot more work there and how that butts up against the sex industry, organized crime for example,
The final MMIWG report was released on June 3, 2019, and included 231 Calls to Justice. Buller is very proud of the work that was done and feels the voices of the survivors, families and other witnesses came through in the documents.
Buller says international courts, governments, and organizations from around the globe have shown interest in the final report. Buller believes there may have been more international interest than domestic.....
Krista’s Kilometres for MMIW
We made it to Kenora yesterday, today we took a day off to do some laundry, some sight seeing and relax a bit. Here are a few pictures of our travels over the past couple days. We found some rather cute places to stop for lunch and pictures. The doggos got some freaking adorable pup Sunday's.
