Trade wars and deals

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NDPP

Stephen Harper Expected To Meet Trump's Top Economic Adviser in Washington Amid Trade Tensions

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/harper-travel-washington-larry-kudlow-1....

"Former prime minister Stephen Harper is poised to meet with two top Trump administration officials in Washington against a backdrop of fractious talk over tariffs, CBC News has confirmed. Harper is expected to travel to Washington on Monday, July 2, and has scheduled meetings with Larry Kudlow - the director of the National Economic Council and Trump's go-to economic adviser - and John Bolton, the president's national security adviser..."

Agent or provocateur?

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Kudlow will be a pushover. Bolton will not.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

The interesting question for me is, what will be Harper's agenda? I suspect he is going to coordinate with the Republicans on ways to defeat the Libs and elect the Cons in 2019.

Pondering

We may have another recession but Harley Davidson is only the beginning. The entire world is targeting Trump states. They may still support Trump now but once they start losing their jobs and losing medical insurance they will turn on him. 

Alternately Congress will overrule him as they have the power to pass trade agreements. They are going to want to protect industries in their constituencies. 

While Trump policies will do more damage to the Canadian economy than to the American economy it doesn't mean the impact on the American economy will be negligible. Harley Davidson moving some production to Europe is not something that will be easily reversed in the future. Not getting Canadian steel is hurting American companies and making housing more expensive. 

Because he is attacking everyone simultaneously everyone is looking to each other for salvation. No one has called the US the leader of the free world since Trump was elected. That isn't just going to come back when he goes away. America has lost the trust of the free world. Everyone is looking to reduce their dependence on the American market.  CETA and TPP just got a big boost. 

NDPP

Anyone who thinks CETA or TPP  good for Canada doesn't understand the true nature of these corporate rights agreements. As for Harper, or Trudeau or Freeland for that matter,  the fact Canadians have become accustomed to high level capitulation to powerful corporate agendas with treasonous behaviour on the part of their leaders and ex leaders doesn't change the fact of its perpetration. The level of ignorance or wilful blindness to these matters is profound hence the victimization by these official predators, sellout brokers and collaborators will only increase. Switching governments from Con coke to Liberal pepsi to NDP canada dry does not address this problem as elite interests can be pursued and realized  through any of them.

NDPP

BBC: Are We Heading For A Trade War? (and podcast)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswqtf

"The world's two biggest economies are on the brink of a costly standoff. The US has announced tariffs of 25% on a swathe of Chinese goods, starting July 6th. China has vowed to respond in kind. China's Commerce minister said, 'we shall fight to the end.'

President Trump is bullish, threatening further tariffs and tweeting: 'trade wars are good, and easy to win.' But the WTO has warned that a trade war would have a 'severe' impact on the global economy. We look at the forces driving the conflict and how each side might back down."

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Who cares? I am broke now, and I will be broke in a trade war. Why should I give a fuck? There is just no incentive to do anything any more. I can bust my ass and get insomnia for peanuts in a high stress job with idiot supervisors 1/3 my age, or I can sit at home and do nothing and get my sleep.

Why would I start up a business? Municipal taxes on a storefront in Montreal are $8000 a month. Every time I would invest in something, I only get 85.01 cents on the dollar of value because of GST/TVQ. Yeah, I might be able to get it back 4 months later, but that is not when I need it.

I think there may be a good cultural IDGAF Canada movement to do. And IDGAF Quebec, especially. Just a general strike on everything. Buy as little as possible. Move to a smaller place. Give up driving and flying. I stopped eating meat a while back. I am feeling great, and my food bill has gone down.

If I buy less, other people will have less work to do, and then they can join IDGAF Canada as well. IDGAF about corporate profits. They can rip someone else off. IDGAF about paying for 200 bureaucrats who will decide where one tree will be planted. Or $9,000 bicycles where $300 would do. If you get municipal taxes on 20 new condos, that is $8,000 a month, which will pay for one new bureaucrat who can decide where 0.5% of a tree should be planted. Or of course you can always hire more police and security guards. I noticed at the Montreal Jazz festival they had 4 people at each hotdog stand, where in Toronto one will do. Still no reason to move to IDGAF Toronto. And 4 security guards on each entrance telling people what to do. If they had no fences, and let people walk where they wanted to without official harassment, they would not have to hire any security guards. IDGAF about police, who use people like me as target practice, as we 'fit the description'.

IDGAF about business. IDGAF about government. IDGAF about work.

Maybe I can shake some people up a bit, and make them face reality. Bust through that fatcat Canadian complacency which always takes the moral high ground, when they are wearing no clothes. Fuck bourgeois civility! It is designed to paralyze us.

josh

On Sunday, Canada’s $16.6-billion worth of retaliatory tariffs on dozens of U.S. products are set to kick in — the country’s answer to the crushing steel and aluminum tariffs imposed by the Trump administration.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/06/29/from-ketchup-to-toilet-paper-canada-launching-retaliatory-tariff-broadside/

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Canada must always shoot itself in the foot in the interests of national pride. The only ones who will pay for the Canadian tariffs will be Canadians. 

josh

Maybe Canada should just dissolve as a political state and ask for admission to the U.S.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Sometimes sullen passive resistance is more effective than a high horse which is trying to compete with mini-guns mounted on Apache helicopters.

Canadians are very good at passive aggression. It is what we do to a T.

Not understanding economics at all will make people respond in certain ways. If Canada just said IDGAF about tariffs, the Canadian market would flood with goods, making the prices go down. Then, all of these foreign suppliers would be cursed with Canadian currency, which they would have to spend in Canada. Having lower producer prices in turn, Canadian producers could profitably sell at low prices.

However any idea which might give Canada an advantage over the US is completely unacceptable, right, josh?

iyraste1313

As Mr. Putin said already two years ago, the sanctions were the best thing that happened to Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. It forced the new Russia to reorganize her agricultural sector, as well as to rebuilding her defunct industrial arsenal and become a scientific vanguard – all of which has happened since 2000 under the leadership of President Putin. For the last three years, Russia has been the world’s largest wheat exporter and has one of the world’s most modern industrial parks – and cutting edge scientific learning and development institutions.......

the trade wars and tariffs are important moves towards a revolutionary green socialist Canada...waiting further collapse of the global financial system...when people no longer can survive with our present system of elite controlled governments and markets, only then will they look for alternatives...but who will offer it?

Sean in Ottawa

progressive17 wrote:

You didn't even bother to read my post, josh. You would rather make a knee-jerk reaction. This is why the left is losing all of the political arguments and all of the elections. They don't listen, and they don't read, and they don't comprehend. 

I stated quite clearly higher income taxes for rich people can go with low corporate taxes. But you would not read that. You would only read what you want to read, and label it what you want to label it. A system which works well in Scandinavia would work well for Canada. 

You can label me Conservative 17. How about I label you Someone Who Cannot Read 17?

It is also obvious that you cannot pull back on taxing corporations and tax rich only because tax is by geographical jurisdiction. Corporation do not only sell in the same jurisdiction in which their shareholders are taxed. The rich people behind many corporations in Canada are not subject to Canadian tax laws. Slashing corporate taxes allows for huge amounts of money to be made in Canada and taxed elsewhere -- if at all. It is a ridiculous and regressive idea that has been proven not to work.

But you are the one arguing about comprehension in one thread and against facts and logic in another and trolling different directions in a few more threads.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

I am willing to entertain any idea which will punish the US for what they are doing. Sometimes, you have to be counterintuitive. The thing is, josh, you are in the US. So how do we know you want to see Canada succeed? How do we know you are not some kind of American agent provocateur?

Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
But you are the one arguing about comprehension in one thread and against facts and logic in another and trolling different directions in a few more threads.

Yeah that. 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

If I were logical, I would be consistent, wouldn't I? If I am illogical, I can be logical and illogical, at any time, and at any place. It's just rhetoric, as you should well know. Eventually you call me a name, and I win, without personally attacking anyone myself. Some of them keep calling me names after that, and keep losing like the losing losers that they are!

If someone answers a statement with a question which has nothing to do with the statement, how could anyone resist? This is a situation which was just asking for it. Then, I show approximately infinite compassion by suggesting ways that such a disgraceful display is not repeated again. I was doing a public service. I am only doing all of this for the greater good. I only want what's best for you.

Pondering

P17, he's just letting you know he sees through you. So do others they just don't all post. Some of your posts are reasonable so I have responded to those. Many are mocking and suggest you think you are clever. If "winning" to you is getting people to call you names that is pretty much the definition of a troll. 

NDPP

Trudeau Calls Trump 2 Days Before Canadian Tariffs Take Effect To Say Canada 'Had No Choice' But To Act

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tariff-list-freeland-1.4727886

"Freeland vows to 'not backdown' as Ottawa reveals $2B in aid, new tariff targets..."

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Pondering wrote:

P17, he's just letting you know he sees through you. So do others they just don't all post. Some of your posts are reasonable so I have responded to those. Many are mocking and suggest you think you are clever. If "winning" to you is getting people to call you names that is pretty much the definition of a troll. 

If they did not call me names, they would not lose. That is their choice, and not mine. Because of complacency, the left is going to lose everything. So I want to shove some red hot pokers up that, Russian-style. So, they can continue to be complacent. Show the left is just empty words and no action. Show the left is less than useless for anything. 

When the Conservatives win everything, it will not be my fault. But it will be yours. Because you were complacent, and I was not. As I said, it is going to be ugly and disorienting at first, kind of like a vaccination, if you still think those kinds of things are good. If you can't stand my gentle prodding now, you are going to be literally atomized in the election.

It is only for the greater good. You must understand that.

Pondering

progressive17 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

P17, he's just letting you know he sees through you. So do others they just don't all post. Some of your posts are reasonable so I have responded to those. Many are mocking and suggest you think you are clever. If "winning" to you is getting people to call you names that is pretty much the definition of a troll. 

If they did not call me names, they would not lose. That is their choice, and not mine. Because of complacency, the left is going to lose everything. So I want to shove some red hot pokers up that, Russian-style. So, they can continue to be complacent. Show the left is just empty words and no action. Show the left is less than useless for anything. 

When the Conservatives win everything, it will not be my fault. But it will be yours. Because you were complacent, and I was not. As I said, it is going to be ugly and disorienting at first, kind of like a vaccination, if you still think those kinds of things are good. If you can't stand my gentle prodding now, you are going to be literally atomized in the election.

It is only for the greater good. You must understand that.

If anyone here is complacent it's you. 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

You can do better than that, Pondering! Pathetic.

NDPP

Free Trade vs Protectionism: Weapons of Mass Distraction

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/free-trade-vs-protectionism-weap...

"The struggle between free trade and protectionism is over which kind of capitalism will prevail. It is a struggle chiefly between capitalists. Struggles between advocates of free trade vs protectionism always were first and foremost struggles between industries who stood to gain more from one than the other..."

NDPP

Stephen Harper Spotted Leaving the White House's West Wing (and vid)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/harper-white-house-west-wing-1.4731144

"We've been very nice to Canada for many years and they've taken advantage of that, particularly advantage of our farmers,' White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said on Monday..."

iyraste1313

The struggle between free trade and protectionism is over which kind of capitalism will prevail......

...Not necessarily! A movement for protectionism in Canada could be from the left, from decentralist and autonomous movements, building on local self reliance and sustainable use of our resources...the direction is wide open in Canada, as there does not presently exist a soveriegntist and autonomy political movement...watch Mexico!

NDPP

Stop Trying To 'Play Nice' With Trump, Mexican ex-Congressman Tells Canada

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-trade-gomez-baruah-1.4732736

"Canada needs to understand that Canada is living in a new world where the friendship that bound it to its southern neighbour no longer is currency with the current administration in Washington.

We cannot be allies if we are not friends. And this is not the way to treat friends..."

NDPP

China: The US Has Started 'The Biggest Trade War' in History (and vid)

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/06/news/economy/us-china-trade-war-tariffs...

"China on Friday accused the US of starting 'the biggest trade war in economic history', as the two sides imposed steep new tariffs on tens of billions of each other's exports. The big question is how far the hostilities between Washington and Beijing will go..."

NDPP

Trump's Trade Wars 'Absurd, Dangerous, Stupid': Former OMB Director

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQo7XV4Z55w

"Trump doesn't know what he's doing..."

iyraste1313

. The big question is how far the hostilities between Washington and Beijing will go..."

The bigger question is if the inflationary aspect of the trade wars, globally...will spurt inflation, as the QE and Central Bank interest rate stimuli programs, globally are market forced to termination?

What with historic global government and corporate debt ratios and accelerating!.......Bubbles will burst, corporations will fail, as interest rates are forced to continue climbing...end times for the global capitalist system!

Misfit Misfit's picture

Sweden's Corporate Tax Rate

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/corporate-tax-rate

Their corporate tax rate is 22%. They dropped it down to that level from 28% percent about 5 years ago.

personal income tax is 61%

sales tax is 25%

Misfit Misfit's picture

Norway's Corporate Tax Rate

https://ieconomics.com/norway-corporate-tax-rate

Currently at 24%

2019 will be 26%

Misfit Misfit's picture

Don Orchard is a Liberal now.

NDPP

Scheer Demands 'Emergency' Summer Session of Parliament to Pass TPP Trade Deal

http://cbc.ca/news/politics/scheer-tpp-emergency-session-1.4753200

"There is no time to wait,' Scheer said in a statement..."

 

NAFTA Appears Headed Into Bilateral Talks With US Looking To Strike Quick Deal With Mexico - Experts

https://nationalpost.com/news/nafta-appears-headed-into-bilateral-talks-...

"The scenario might result in the States sparing Mexico further punitive tariffs on steel or possibly cars, as Canada remains in the vice, said one analyst..."

Never fear, our PM says Lyin Brian Mulroney has been 'extraordinarily helpful'. I'll bet...We're F***ED from both ends and Canadians are deep in sleep on these massive corporate depradations styled as 'trade deals'.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Governments generally do not tariff necessary foodstuffs, even in a trade war (or a military war). However on the non-necessary things you could have inflation on one hand, or you could have a depressed market for those items on another.

The history of trade wars tends to run in a "beggar-thy-neighbor" competition. This means that demand falls off because of restriction of export markets, and incomes fall as a result. There is less corresponding money in the internal economy, which can cause internal prices to fall. This in turn means that internal wages have to go down, or jobs have to be lost. Another thing that can occur is rationing, as whole markets are destroyed. This of course causes a black market to form, as governments are not good at determining future supply and demand.

It is a wretched cycle. The last time we were in one of those, we needed a World War where 65 million had to die. I hope it is not so bad this time. It is sort of like a slo-mo-Zomby version. The 2008 stock market crash was bailed out when Gordon Brown decided the buck was going to stop at his desk, and all the governments and central bankers fell into line behind him. They had to dump in trillions. Canada got off easy, because only one bank had bought the bad paper, and the others were able to bail it out for "only" $60 billion.

As I recall the trade wars were started after the stock market crash in the 1929 as a 'solution' to the credit contraction, and the Fed's failure to act as they would have today.

In my opinion Canada's best solution, when the rest of the world is in a trade war, is unilateral free trade. This of course will not be accepted in Canada.

Unilateral free trade will tend to keep tariffs against us low, and prices low at home. It will also keep producer prices low to enable our industry to compete as well as it can given bad trading conditions out there. Added to this you could have a number of economic policies you would normally find on the Left which would keep up demand, such as housing construction, highways, transit, etc.

We can take a "What me worry?" stance, and perhaps avoid the worst of the global trade war. Having our own dollar should work out quite well for us at this juncture.

There is absolutely no negative and aggressive stance that Canada can pose against the EU, the US, and China, which would do Canada any good at all. Any one of those three entities could squash Canada like a bug.

Unilateral free trade (plus the government spending) is the perfect passive-aggressive stance we should be taking.

The other issue is taxes. Trump is paying for the increased tariffs by cutting taxes. Canada, China, and the EU are not going to be willing to do that. However, we do not know when that strategy is going to run out. For now, he can say he is winning because he is getting the tariffs and 4% growth at the same time. You can bet that the big money is gaming Trump for every cent he has got.

SeekingAPolitic...

Well I totally opposed to free trade under capitalism, there is a good reason use protectionism nationaly it allowes industry policy.  I maybe be a leftist but I am leftist that lives in Canada I rather see people prosper.  

Lets do a thought experiment on Canada.

Canada has less than 40 million people, not enough to develop are broad based market to develop "national champions" without protectionism and industry policy.  

Canada without car plants export complexity would make Canada look like a 3rd world nation.  I give you 

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/can/

Lets get to meat of the subject unilaterial free trade.  WHY? 

1.  WHY would international captial invest in Canada.  Where are just to small to matter, market is small.  Our access to the US market is mimiced by Mexico with has the better access to South America and equal access to US.  Ohh they pay their atleast citizens 10 times less.  

2.WHY would international companies keep local production in Canada going.  No trade barrier, supply Canada from cheaper manufuctruing countries.  

Lets take about the nature of capitalsim.  Profit is all.  Situation>>> A Canadian nationalist business whats to use Canadian labour but another captitalist shift production to chaeper location and sell into Canada.  Thus destroying the nationlist becasue of the cheaper prodution base and jobs go bye bye.

***Many see socialism as dynamic force.  But captialism is even greater source of revoultionary effect, it breaks down links between the indivdual vs individual and links between the individual and the state.  Its pits neightbour vs neightbour*  its pits indivudaul vs the state.  It breaks these bonds because is profitble to do so. 

What does Canada have that the world need besides limited added value products.  And that the fate of Canada under unitateral trade, a producer of primary goods found in the ground or grown in the ground.

 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Even a communist country like china uses capitalist pricing signals and investment policies to manage its import and export markets.

A communist economic system would have difficulty in knowing where to allocate resources to stage any kind of competition in import and export markets. 

Unilateral free trade would need some kind of capitalist pricing system in order to function the most efficiently.

Our foreign competitors would care not what our internal economic system was. It would make no practical sense to make ideological decisions for their benefit.

Competition is the only name of the game in import and export markets. By definition, only capitalism is based on competition. How we spend the profits is a matter of public policy.

SeekingAPolitic...

Command economies win wars while lazzez ecomonies the peace.  Socialism is done a poor job of responsidng to the need to for customer goods.  When we experince the next socialist upturn I hope that the economic planners make consumers goods 1 priority.

Pondering

Social democracies can use a mixed economy. No need to go to extremes. It is obvious someone working for 15$ an hour can't compete with someone making 5$ an hour. 

We don't need 10$ t-shirts in Canada. That does not help the poor. What helps the poor is making t-shirts in Canada or some other form of semi-skilled work even if that means we pay more for some products. 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

If the person on $15 an hour has better machinery and can output more than 3 times the amount as someone on $5 an hour, the unit labour cost is still the same. This requires investment per worker. Investment per worker happens when the suppliers of the investment capital deduce that it is more profitable to hire the worker than collect 4% in a stock portfolio. Somebody has to invest in the worker's wages and equipment. For a while, Canada had an investment advantage over the United States. Now it has lost that.

Pondering

If they have a captive market, as in supply management, they invest. But I'm not anti-trade. I just think they should include more to protect workers and consumers and to limit the power of multi-national corporations. 

SeekingAPolitic...

progressive17 wrote:

If the person on $15 an hour has better machinery and can output more than 3 times the amount as someone on $5 an hour, the unit labour cost is still the same. This requires investment per worker. Investment per worker happens when the suppliers of the investment capital deduce that it is more profitable to hire the worker than collect 4% in a stock portfolio. Somebody has to invest in the worker's wages and equipment. For a while, Canada had an investment advantage over the United States. Now it has lost that.

Interesting your statement hints at a understanding of the orthodox marxist thought as to reason the capitilaist  invests into capex and therefore drive empolyment.  Marx is clear the capitalist will invest only if profit can be made.  Different from Kenysian which customer demand is the dirver of investment.  Marx orthodox thinkers share the idea that capitalist  crisis begins with a drop of profit.  Unless the profit rises than the capitalist goes on strike and stops investing.  General crisis starts soon after, no profit>>>no investment>>>no new job.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

progressive17 wrote:

If the person on $15 an hour has better machinery and can output more than 3 times the amount as someone on $5 an hour, the unit labour cost is still the same. This requires investment per worker. Investment per worker happens when the suppliers of the investment capital deduce that it is more profitable to hire the worker than collect 4% in a stock portfolio. Somebody has to invest in the worker's wages and equipment. For a while, Canada had an investment advantage over the United States. Now it has lost that.

Interesting your statement hints at a understanding of the orthodox marxist thought as to reason the capitilaist  invests into capex and therefore drive empolyment.  Marx is clear the capitalist will invest only if profit can be made.  Different from Kenysian which customer demand is the dirver of investment.  Marx orthodox thinkers share the idea that capitalist  crisis begins with a drop of profit.  Unless the profit rises than the capitalist goes on strike and stops investing.  General crisis starts soon after, no profit>>>no investment>>>no new job.

This is a very good point. As well as being the Marxist viewpoint, it is also somewhat the pensioner's viewpoint. What am I going to invest in? What is the risk and what is the dividend return? Small oil companies can pay over 10% but they often go out of business. Banks pay less than 4%. If the company goes out of business, I lose my income, which is like an employee there losing their job.

What many models do not include is the inevitable catastrophe which follows exponential growth. Exponential growth always leads to catastrophe. If you put bacteria in a petri dish, they will thrive until they get to the perimeter of the dish. Then they die.

The biggest companies now will probably not be in 50 years, and definitely not in 100 years. The world is always generating net profit, some $8-$9 billion a day. That will grow with the population. So the money cycles around. Companies die, and new ones form. Money seeks the highest return, like water is affected by gravity.

So I don't see the decline in profits. In all the time since Marx came up with that theory, profits have been fine. If you had put $40 into TD bank shares in 1970, you would have $1,000 now. The Royal Bank of Canada has been going since before Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. There have been countless wars and depressions and catastrophes since then, but the bank dividends have never gone down.

If you are going to end capitalism, you are going to have to do much better than the Communist Manifesto.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

Command economies win wars while lazzez ecomonies the peace.  Socialism is done a poor job of responsidng to the need to for customer goods.  When we experince the next socialist upturn I hope that the economic planners make consumers goods 1 priority.

How many planets worth of resources will that require. Consumerism is at the core of our problems it is not the solution. The reason these deals are called Free Trade stems from the fact that the corporate lawyers involved understood the power of New Speak. If they had called them corporate rights agreements then no one would have agreed to them. We need regulated trade but not at the expense of local control of the environment and economy. I would be happy if Canada withdrew from all the "Free" Trade agreements and reverted to following GATT rules.

We don't need the trade deals because the deals don't create the trade the marketplace does.

NDPP

ISDS As Corporate Dracula

https://twitter.com/PCGTW/status/1020385856396374017

"A Canadian mining company's $4.4 BILLION ISDS case against Romania led the government to withdraw a World Heritage Site application for a Transylvania site with historic archaeological value."

Canada as corporate dracula demands ISDS be included in trade agreements it negotiates. 

NDPP

How BRICS Plus Clashes With the US Economic War on Iran

http://www.atimes.com/article/how-brics-plus-clashes-with-the-us-economi...

"Rhetorical war has far-reaching consequences, including a potential economic slump via the disruption of global oil supplies. It it ever happened, an attack on Iran would be not only an attack on BRICS PLUS and BEAMS but on the whole Global South."

NDPP

US-China Trade War Intensifies

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/26/trad-s26.html

"Far from being an ill-advised and hasty policy decision emanating solely from Donald Trump's White House, this latest tariff round represents something much more dangerous and lasting: a true reset of economic and political relations between the US and China, and the beginning  of something that looks more like a cold war than a trade war."

NDPP

Here Comes the 30-Year Trade War  

http://www.atimes.com/article/here-comes-the-30-year-trade-war/

"Trade tensions between the US and China could drag on for decades..."

NDPP

Will Trump's Trade War Spur A Major Crash?

https://youtu.be/BnCLwDlKga8

Prof Richard Wolff on Trump's 'America First'.

NDPP

Warning Shot? China Sells US Treasury Bonds Amid Trade War

https://on.rt.com/9ge2

"China has sold $3 billion of sovereign dollar bonds. This is only the third such move by Beijing in the last 14 years, and the first involving bonds with a 30-year maturity. Beijing is the largest holder of US debt. As of July, China had $1.17 trillion invested in debt minted by the US Treasury. China has made the sale at a time when the yuan has depreciated 10 percent against the dollar amid an escalating trade war with the US..."

NDPP

Here's What the Trade War Has Cost the US and Canada So Far

https://www.macleans.ca/economy/heres-what-the-trade-war-has-cost-the-u-...

"The early results are in from the trade war the US and Canada are waging against each other, and so far, it's more or less a draw: each country is punching itself in the face with the same relative dunderheaded force..."

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Here's What the Trade War Has Cost the US and Canada So Far

https://www.macleans.ca/economy/heres-what-the-trade-war-has-cost-the-u-...

"The early results are in from the trade war the US and Canada are waging against each other, and so far, it's more or less a draw: each country is punching itself in the face with the same relative dunderheaded force..."

What a load of absolute bullshit.

Canada did not pick the fight. A response cannot be equated with an initiation.

The article is right about the US. For Canada the choice is and was to respond in order to try to get the US to back down or take the pain without giving a reason to the other side to stop inflicting it. Canada's response is not harmful to Canadians on balance becuase it gives hope that the US could back off. To not respond is to give them no reason to stop.

Let's complete the physical fight analogy. Canada is getting its knuckles bruised by fighting back but to do nothing means they will get their face pummeled and ask for more punishment.

The article if it were not political propaganda would be easily dismissed as stupid.

The truth is that the US has been bending. This is not becuase Trump and his regime woke up and decided to be nicer. It is becuase Canada inflicted some pain on them. If the article were to be honest it would acknowledge that presently Canada has no benefit from historical Canada-US friendship with the US administration. It only has the leverage of what it can do in response. Everyone gets hurt in conflict but to not participate when it is brought to you invites more rather than less aggression.

Canada should be firm. No need to compromise on the steel tarrifs before the election in  a few weeks. Let Trump face the damage he is doing at home until after the election and we can see what we are dealing with then.

Canada needs to ask its representatives to come home and stop engaging when the US makes demands for quotas internationally. They can negotiate quotas with respect to imports but they should never be allowed to set quotas for what Canada can export to other countries which is a tactic the US is trying out. If Canada is going to allow this it may as well stop having a government in Ottawa and have individual Provinces deal with "head office" in Washington.

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