Our Food Industry Which Includes Our Dairy Industry is Killing Us

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NorthReport
Our Food Industry Which Includes Our Dairy Industry is Killing Us

1.5 billion overweight

o.5 billion obese 

NorthReport
NorthReport

The WHO was about to release a report on the unhealthiness of sugar but the USA Health Minister flew to Geneva to lobby on behalf of the sugar industry and threatened to withdraw $450 million annual support and as a result the WHI report was never released

NorthReport

Food content too fat No problem for food industry just reduce the fat and add sugar

 

NorthReport
NorthReport

dp

NorthReport
NorthReport

Basically the food industry’s approach is patterned after the tobacco industry’s methods and our politicians do their bidding

NorthReport
LB Cultured Thought

I can never tell if these threads are intended to be parody...

Misfit Misfit's picture

I think it is disturbingly short sighted. We are right now on the cusp of selling our dairy farmers down the drain and dismantling our own national dairy industry in the NAFTA renegotiations and I don't think it is funny.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I really don't know what the intent of this thread is. I have no personal ties to the dairy industry. 

I firmly believe that the majority of  Canadians are the only people on the entire globe who do not understand the importance of protecting the viability of their own national food producers.

If Canada negotiates away supply-side management of our dairy production which the United States expects us to do with the NAFTA negotiation which are going on right now, we lose our entire national dairy industry. Then we are at the mercy of foreign nations to supply us with our dairy products. 

If we kill our national dairy industry then we also lose control over our own national safety standards of the dairy products we consume.

And what if a country then decided to blackmail Canada into endorsing international disputes that the Canadian government would not normally want to involve itself with because the exporting country could then threaten to cut off all dairy trade with Canada unless our government capitulated and did what the exporting country wanted it to do.

So consumers who think short-sightedly and only of  themselves maintain that our supply-side dairy production costs them pennies on the litre which could be saved if Canada abandoned its supply-side management system. Let the market decide so they adamantly argue. Then I can buy cheese and milk more cheaply.

These people are not looking at the full cost in the long term.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Basically the food industry’s approach is patterned after the tobacco industry’s methods and our politicians do their bidding

Of course.  Bought and paid for.

Really, they're doing ours.  The public doesn't want "Mama Michelina's" banned, any more than they ever wanted McDonald's banned.  The people with the strongest opinions magically manage to not eat either.

I'm fine with taking Coke machines out of schools, or requiring labelling of ingredients and nutrients, and at this point I don't even care about (some) restaurants publishing calorie, salt and sugar values.   But at a certain point it becomes pretty difficult to force individuals to eat healthier than they wish to.  Banning convenience foods would be like banning beer -- rationally a great idea, and practically, an impossibility.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Misfit wrote:

I really don't know what the intent of this thread is. I have no personal ties to the dairy industry. 

I firmly believe that the majority of  Canadians are the only people on the entire globe who do not understand the importance of protecting the viability of their own national food producers.

If Canada negotiates away supply-side management of our dairy production which the United States expects us to do with the NAFTA negotiation which are going on right now, we lose our entire national dairy industry. Then we are at the mercy of foreign nations to supply us with our dairy products. 

If we kill our national dairy industry then we also lose control over our own national safety standards of the dairy products we consume.

And what if a country then decided to blackmail Canada into endorsing international disputes that the Canadian government would not normally want to involve itself with because the exporting country could then threaten to cut off all dairy trade with Canada unless our government capitulated and did what the exporting country wanted it to do.

So consumers who think short-sightedly and only of  themselves maintain that our supply-side dairy production costs them pennies on the litre which could be saved if Canada abandoned its supply-side management system. Let the market decide so they adamantly argue. Then I can buy cheese and milk more cheaply.

These people are not looking at the full cost in the long term.

THIS

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
If we kill our national dairy industry then we also lose control over our own national safety standards of the dairy products we consume.

Wouldn't they be replaced by our standards for what dairy products we will import?

The EU seems to have problems with importing GMO products, for example.  Couldn't Canada expect similar standards?  Or does a trade agreement mean we all HAVE TO drink the greenish milk?

Quote:
And what if a country then decided to blackmail Canada into endorsing international disputes that the Canadian government would not normally want to involve itself with because the exporting country could then threaten to cut off all dairy trade with Canada unless our government capitulated and did what the exporting country wanted it to do.

Then some other dairy exporting country could say "hurrah!"  and sell us dairy with no political obligations.  Or, our own dairy would fill that void.  They're not going to wither away unless, somehow, there's more dairy product available on the market than can be sold.

NorthReport

Most dairy products are not that good for us and humans will not be able to survive raising cows and cattle as they require too many space to raise them It is no longer just Canada we need to think about as the planet is heading towards catastrophe We have to seriously think globally while acting locally

NorthReport

I know this is heresy here but government support of the dairy industry is like government support of the gasoline and automobile industry both of which are wrong as they are both slowly killing humans and the rate of death is only going to accelerate

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I think someone just read some vegan book.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Ok Magoo,

1. You claimed that we could just import dairy from the EU. WHO PROTECT THEIR OWN DAIRY FARMERS unlike  Canadians who are eager to throw their own dairy farmers under the bus in order to save a nickel.

2. Really??? Import milk and other quickly perishable products from EU just to save a nickel today? What an EXPENSIVE proposition. Shipping dairy products from Europe to Canada sounds very expensive indeed. I can see consumers enjoying their cheaper dairy products as we speak.

2. And you think that we would have control over our dairy standards when our import options are very limited. so if say American standards are lower than ours and we gleefully killed our own dairy industry just to save a nickel, I do not think that Canada would be in a position to tell the Americans what standards we expect from our agricultural imports. We shot ourselves in the foot by killing our own industry just to save a nickel.

And remember, Canadians complain consistently about the cost of bread and they blame our grain farmers. Yet the cost of flour, eggs, and milk that went into the one loaf of bread amounts to about 15 cents. It is the wholesalers and the retailers who are driving up the cost of bread.

the same holds true with the dairy producers. They receive a small percentage  of what you pay at the store for your dairy products. The wholesalers and retailers jack up the prices exorbitantly to make their own profits.

if you kill the supply management system and allow the Americans to dump their dairy products into Canada willy-nilly without any quotas or severe limitations you force the Canadian dairy farmers to produce their milk at a price that is well below the cost of production. They will lose money by staying in business and will drop out of the production market entirely.

AND!!!! Since it is the retailers and the wholesalers who are cranking up the prices, you the consumer will unlikely see any cost savings at all.

All you will have accomplished is to throw away your own national dairy industry and increase the unemployment line.

This is something to be very proud of!

Misfit Misfit's picture

And Magoo,

before you start shootings your fingers off typing, please read up on what supply management really is about. They produce milk and set production quotas at a price that covers their cost of doing business and which provides a manageable consistent supply for consumers and avoids the mass dumping of dairy products on the market which forces dairy producers to sell at a loss. THIS IS WHY MANY COUNTRIES WISELY HAVE SUPPLY-MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS IN PLACE!!!

Misfit Misfit's picture

Yes, I can  really see people in Vancouver and Victoria enjoying their huge shipments of ever so fresh milk, yogurt, butter milk, sour cream, and cottage cheese all nice and fresh and cheap  all being shipped in from Europe. Mmm- Yum!

Pondering

I haven't noticed any consumer groups or or public outcry against supply management. In Quebec and Ontario it would be political suicide. It isn't on the table. 

I think most Canadians try to buy local produce when possible. Farmer's markets are very popular. I'd say Canadians appreciate our farmers. We are also a big food exporter. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

36 Million Canadians dependent on either Donald Trump or Europe or Siberia to supply us with all our dairy needs and with consistent stability.

Magoo, once the dairy farmers are gone they are gone. They will not come back. And there is no way of bringing them back once they are gone. Their economic ecosystem is extremely fragile. That is why they need strong regulation.

Canadian dairy farmers cannot survive the American demands. And they will go out of business much faster than you seem to understand.

An attack on our dairy industry is an attack on our very sovereignty as a nation. Unfortunately, far too few understand or seem to care.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You claimed that we could just import dairy from the EU

I don't believe I said any such thing.

Quote:
And remember, Canadians complain consistently about the cost of bread and they blame our grain farmers. Yet the cost of flour, eggs, and milk that went into the one loaf of bread amounts to about 15 cents.

Umm... eggs and milk?  In bread?  Are you thinking of cake??

Not sure what you're wrapped around the axle about here.  Is your dad a struggling dairy farmer or something?  Because you're losing it.

All I suggested was that if we can enforce standards on domestic production (which we do) we can enforce them on imports (which we do).  I assume that's literally what's got you freaking out.

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Mr. Magoo,

I very clearly wrote in post #12 that I have no ties to the Canadian dairy industry. 

You wrote:

"Then some other dairy exporting country could say "hurrah!"  and sell us dairy with no political obligations.  Or, our own dairy would fill that void.  They're not going to wither away unless, somehow, there's more dairy product available on the market than can be sold."

The "hurrah" other country would be whom do you think? India? Pakistan? China? New Zealand? Brazil? Djibouti? 

And remember, we are talking about very  fresh milk here and other highly perishable items for 36 million people on a daily basis. Aside from the United States, I'd really like to know what our options are to step up to the plate and supply very fresh dairy for 36 million people living in the second largest country in the world geographically and people widely dispersed.

And for your "unless there is more dairy on the market that can be sold" Well, that is exactly what the United States wants to do when renegotiating our NAFTA. Supply Management regulates very carefully and effectively the proper amount of dairy products that are to be on the market at any given time and to prevent oversupply.

That is what supply management is all about.

And forget the notion that some Canadian dairy producers will still be around to fill in the void. There will be no more dairy producers in Canada. Period. 

Misfit Misfit's picture
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The "hurrah" other country would be whom do you think? India? Pakistan? China? New Zealand? Brazil? Djibouti?

Beats me.  I was only responding to your fanciful suggestion that some single country is going to hold us hostage to their political whims because we're dependent on them for cottage cheese.

Quote:
And yes, milk and eggs in bread.

You can also put raisins in bread.  Lots of things, really.

Misfit Misfit's picture

This is so sad.

an Ontario woman was killed on the highway when driving her tractor across Canada to promote awareness about our dairy industry.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2018/07/09/ontario-woman-dies-in-a-car-crash-while-touring-to-promote-canadas-dairy-industry.html

I passed she and her husband on the highway last Friday and gave them a honk in support of what they were doing. It is so sad that this tragedy happened.

if Canadians had proper respect for their national dairy industry, they would not have had to promote awareness by driving across Canada and this wouldn't have happened.

I guess they had to promote awareness because the future of our dairy farmers is so lofty. Anyway, I guess that this is what some people think. Canadian producers will always be around to pick up on whatever slack our importers cannot handle.

Misfit Misfit's picture

The Reality and Efficiency of Supply Management in Canada!

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/bruce-muirhead/dairy-farmers_b_3691203.html

According to this article:

1. Canadian dairy products are much cheaper than American dairy products. Read the article. It is true. Supply Management gives Canadians the most cost effective and cheapest dairy products.

2. The American government subsidizes their dairy farmers for 40% of all their costs of production. Canadian dairy producers receive absolutely no government subsidies. Americans have to pay that 40% extra through their tax dollars. What they think they save in the grocery store they pay more than we do because of that 40% extra in taxes.

3. For a glass of milk in the restaurant, only about 12.5% of that cost goes to the dairy farmer. 87.5% is retail markup. But people, of course, blame the dairy farmers.

4. Countries around the world that have abandoned their supply management and let the market dictate have either killed their dairy industry or made dairy prohibitively expensive to consumers.

5. Many American dairy producers in the south keep their costs lower by hiring cheap migrant labour coming in from Mexico. The article claims that if these producers had to pay proper wages, their milk would be enormously more expensive.

6. Anytime when the market price drops for the dairy farmer, the consumer never sees the benefit of that. Retailers do not drop the prices for dairy at the store. They keep that spread for themselves.

We have the best and most efficient system going. Let us not throw it away glibly and learn to appreciate what we have.

Cheaper dairy products in Canada without supply management is a myth.

 

LB Cultured Thought

I see the thread has moved forward and ignored the absolute madness North Report put forth to start. Fair enough...onto the new madness

Misfit wrote:

If we kill our national dairy industry then we also lose control over our own national safety standards of the dairy products we consume.

As Magoo already noted, this isn’t linked at all; we already set our own standards. Try again.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

 

The EU seems to have problems with importing GMO products, for example.  Couldn't Canada expect similar standards?  Or does a trade agreement mean we all HAVE TO drink the greenish milk?

The EU has no problems importing GMO products. They are only banned from production, because they hate their farmers or something. Also, no GMO dairy products in existence (as far as I know).

Misfit wrote:

THIS IS WHY MANY COUNTRIES WISELY HAVE SUPPLY-MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS IN PLACE!!!

Such as? I’m honestly not sure who else has a similar system in place.

Misfit wrote:

Yes, I can  really see people in Vancouver and Victoria enjoying their huge shipments of ever so fresh milk, yogurt, butter milk, sour cream, and cottage cheese all nice and fresh and cheap  all being shipped in from Europe. Mmm- Yum!

When I was working in Calgary, I used to love happy hour at this place that brought in fresh oysters each day. They used this new-fangled invention called an “aircraft” to overcome the fact that Calgary isn’t near any coast. Really cutting edge stuff.

Pondering wrote:

I haven't noticed any consumer groups or or public outcry against supply management. In Quebec and Ontario it would be political suicide. It isn't on the table.  

 

Other than…every single consumer group outside of the Quebec/Toronto bubble? Hell, the conservatives almost selected a leader that ran on abolishing this madness before Sheer signed up every dairy farmer to suddenly become a conservative for the day.

Misfit wrote:

The Reality and Efficiency of Supply Management in Canada!

https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/bruce-muirhead/dairy-farmers_b_3691203.html

According to this article:

1. Canadian dairy products are much cheaper than American dairy products. Read the article. It is true. Supply Management gives Canadians the most cost effective and cheapest dairy products.

It may be helpful to quote a professor who actually understands economics in the future (why is a history prof writing about this?). For your reference, dairy is MUCH cheaper in the states than in Canada. I have lived in both countries.

I suppose if supply management is as great as you think, Misfit, we should supply manage EVERY industry. Let's start with whatever you work in, What might that be? I'm sure we can ensure that there is no more excess of supply...though this may mean you no longer have any work, naturally.

JKR

When I have gone grocery shopping in the States it has often occurred to me that for lower income Americans dairy and poultry items are more affordable considering that lower income Americans pay very little of the income taxes that subsidizes U.S. agriculture. It seems to me the money Americans save from cheap dairy and poultry is more than the money they spend in taxes to subsidize those industries, but I could be wrong since I haven't crunched the numbers. Also, under NAFTA I think Canada would be able to set up tariffs on U.S. agriculture that is subsidized. Also, maybe Canadians with lower incomes should receive subsidies for our relatively expensive dairy and poultry?

Misfit Misfit's picture

JKR,

It is true that dairy products are cheaper in the grocery stores in the United States than in Canada. The article says that. The American government subsidizes 40% of dairy production and that results in cheaper product prices in the grocery stores.

BUT, Americans also pay the 40%  subsidization so when those subsidization totals are factored in, American dairy products are more expensive to produce than Canadian dairy products.

Canadians pay 100% of production costs at the grocery store. Americans pay for cheaper goods at the grocery store plus they pay again through their tax dollars more than we do for the same goods. We see a higher price at the store. They pay more overall for their dairy because they pay subsidies to their dairy farmers that we do not do in Canada.

Low income Americans may pay less in income tax but they also pay twice like everyone else for their dairy products. They pay at the grocery store and they pay for their dairy subsidies in their income tax. When the costs are added up, Americans pay more than we do.

Pondering

LB Cultured Thought wrote:
Other than…every single consumer group outside of the Quebec/Toronto bubble? Hell, the conservatives almost selected a leader that ran on abolishing this madness before Sheer signed up every dairy farmer to suddenly become a conservative for the day.

Quebec and Ontario represents 61% of Canadians. New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI also have supply management and defend it. 

It seems the "bubble" is in the West. I think provincially you can give up dairy management if you like but the rest of us are keeping it. 

Harper was able to get rid of the wheat board because it was a western thing. If Harper could have gotten rid of dairy management he would have. He couldn't. Trudeau knows he can't do it either. Eastern provinces won't sign on to a trade deal that hurts Canadian dairy. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

LBCT wrote:

"As Magoo already noted, this isn’t linked at all; we already set our own standards. Try again."

Yes, we have our own standards. But if we lose our dairy farmers and become exclusively importers of dairy products and the nations that we import from have lower standards than we have we are no longer in a position to demand that they raise their standards to our levels. Our only options are to accept their standards or do without. 

So you can try again.

LCBT wrote:

"Such as? I’m honestly not sure who else has a similar system in place."

Europe did for many years. It was called the Common Agricultural Policy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy

They used production quotas, price guarantees and fixed market prices, import quotas, subsidies. 

They have tried to deregulate the last few years and are now overproducing and exporting more products internationally in order to survive.

The UK, Australia, and New Zealand had very strongly regulated industries like Canada does but have all been forced by their governments to deregulate and survive with stiff market fluctuations. 

Australian dairy farmers have suffered due to market uncertainty. New Zealand farmers had to radically expand production and export most of their dairy products in order to survive. They apparently are struggling as well.

Australian Dairy crisis: Understanding why the bubble burst and what it means for milk in supermarkets

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-01-27/understanding-the-dairy-crisis/8184510

Lessons for Canada from New Zealand's Dairy Industry Neht

https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/lessons-for-canada-from-new-zealands-dairy-industry

"The Dairy Farmers of Canada declined an interview for this story. A spokesperson said in an email, “New Zealand dairy ended their quota system and ever since dairy farmers have a very hard time making ends meet. New Zealand is not an example the Canadian dairy industry wants to follow.”

LBCT wrote:

"When I was working in Calgary, I used to love happy hour at this place that brought in fresh oysters each day. They used this new-fangled invention called an “aircraft” to overcome the fact that Calgary isn’t near any coast. Really cutting edge stuff."

Really??? You want to destroy supply management because you want to lower the costs of dairy products. The cost of your fucking oysters in Calgary are much higher than they are in Vancouver because you are paying the shipping charges to deliver your oysters from Vancouver to Calgary by air.

This changes the entire complexion of your oysters from a routine purchase in Vancouver to an expensive item in Calgary. Just like the price of beef up in Tuktoyaktuk is much higher than your beef is in Calgary.

So you think nothing of destroying our Canadian dairy industry to supposedly lower prices so that you can pay Tuktoyaktuk prices for dairy by having it flown in from international locations.

I call this stupidity. You call it "really cutting edge."

LCBT wrote:

"It may be helpful to quote a professor who actually understands economics in the future (why is a history prof writing about this?)."

Counterpoint: Ending supply management didn’t help Australians and it won’t help Canadians

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/counterpoint-ending-supply-management-didnt-help-australians-and-it-wont-help-canadians

"Bruce Muirhead, Ph.D, is associate vice president of external research and a professor of history at the University of Waterloo, where he holds the Egg Farmers of Canada chair in public policy."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Muirhead

"...he teaches Canadian History, the American impact on Canada, and Canada's foreign economic policy "

6079_Smith_W

Pondering wrote:

Harper was able to get rid of the wheat board because it was a western thing. If Harper could have gotten rid of dairy management he would have.

Harper got rid of the Wheat Board because of his corporate and pro-American ideology and the fact he had a majority in parliament.  And that destroying single desk was one of his stated goals. As for some supposed "western bubble", four out of five representatives elected to the board in 2008 supported maintaining the monopoly.

Problem is, Harper knew those ridings were safe on other issues. The situation is not the same down east.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Pondering,

The majority of grain farmers supported the Canadian Wheat Board and its monopoly because it was the best and safest way of marketing grain internationally. It was the big agribusiness companies like Cargil, Monsanto, Archer Daniels Midland, Bunge who wanted the Canadian Wheat Board eliminated. Not the majority of farmers.

Smith is telling it correctly.

Pondering

Misfit and Smith, LB said the following:

LB Cultured Thought wrote:

Other than…every single consumer group outside of the Quebec/Toronto bubble? Hell, the conservatives almost selected a leader that ran on abolishing this madness before Sheer signed up every dairy farmer to suddenly become a conservative for the day.

I responded. 

Quebec and Ontario represents 61% of Canadians. New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and PEI also have supply management and defend it. 

It seems the "bubble" is in the West. I think provincially you can give up dairy management if you like but the rest of us are keeping it. 

Notice the air quotes around "bubble".  My point is that Quebec/Toronto is not a "bubble" it represents the  majority of Canadians. Furthermore the eastern provinces also use supply management. Maybe out west there is some movement against supply management but in central and eastern Canada supply management is supported. 

I am positive Harper would have loved to get rid of dairy supply management for the same reasons he got rid of the wheat board. He couldn't do it then and neither can Trudeau now. 

I don't know why Westerners allowed Harper to get away with dismantling the Wheat Board but they did. We won't do the same in Quebec or the Maritimes. In my opinion we support our farmers and local production of milk. That sentiment will only strengthen now that we  have seen what a president can do.

I consider it a matter of food security. US dumping would give us cheap dairy for awhile because they subsidize their farmers. Once our industry was gone we would be at their mercy. 

I don't resent dairy farmers for making a good living. They work hard for it. Dairy is a 7 days a week job. Cows have to be milked every day. No weekends off. No sick days. No lateness either because tank trucks pick it up on a schedule. A 4 million dollar evaluation is not high for net worth for a farmer. It isn't cash on hand. They have to own the farm to do business. Their equipment must cost a small fortune. I don't begrudge them a decent living. 

"Free trade" may drive down prices but it also drives down wages. 

6079_Smith_W

Pondering wrote:

I don't know why Westerners allowed Harper to get away with dismantling the Wheat Board but they did.

Really?

We have 56 seats in our three provinces. You have 72 in Quebec and there are 121 in Ontario. Nothing happens in this country without the support of your provinces. We couldn't have stopped it if we tried, which we did.

Might I suggest a short primer on how parliament works, because that is how he did it. It even got to the point where he had to force closure in the House, and the Senate, for those who might not recall.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/conservatives-to-invoke-cl...

Misfit Misfit's picture

Pondering,

i don't know where you get this notion that western Canadians are eager to lose supply management? 

Maxine Bernier is from Quebec. Martha Hall Findlay is from Toronto. This isn't a western Canadian phenomenon. It is an entire Canadian threat coming from all over.

BTW, I am happy to know about your support of Canadian dairy farmers.

And, I doubt that they are the very wealthy people that you think they are. They aren't rolling in moola like you seem to portray them as being. I am not speaking as an authority on this but farming enterprises are very capital intensive. they are very expensive multimillion dollar operations to run. I assume that they generate a lot of revenue. They also incur a lot of expenses to run their operations. I also am confident that they have had to incur a lot of debt financing in order to keep up with the changes in technology. It is a very hard way of life that is not meant for everyone.

 

Pondering

Misfit wrote:

Pondering,

i don't know where you get this notion that western Canadians are eager to lose supply management? 

Maxine Bernier is from Quebec. Martha Hall Findlay is from Toronto. This isn't a western Canadian phenomenon. It is an entire Canadian threat coming from all over.

BTW, I am happy to know about your support of Canadian dairy farmers.

And, I doubt that they are the very wealthy people that you think they are. They aren't rolling in moola like you seem to portray them as being. I am not speaking as an authority on this but farming enterprises are very capital intensive. they are very expensive multimillion dollar operations to run. I assume that they generate a lot of revenue. They also incur a lot of expenses to run their operations. I also am confident that they have had to incur a lot of debt financing in order to keep up with the changes in technology. It is a very hard way of life that is not meant for everyone.

I didn't say they were very wealthy people. I said the opposite. You are repeating my view back to me as though you thought of it. 

I don't resent dairy farmers for making a good living. They work hard for it. Dairy is a 7 days a week job. Cows have to be milked every day. No weekends off. No sick days. No lateness either because tank trucks pick it up on a schedule. A 4 million dollar evaluation is not high for net worth for a farmer. It isn't cash on hand. They have to own the farm to do business. Their equipment must cost a small fortune. I don't begrudge them a decent living. 

Does that sound like I think they are wealthy? 

Some of Harper's MPs who support his agenda are from the East but free traders are stronger in the West, particularly Alberta. That isn't an attack. 

Even with a majority Harper did not touch dairy supply management. Why do you think that is?

6079_Smith_W

Because it would have hit harder in a region where his support was not as solid, and from where he could not afford to lose it.

The only place in the prairies where there was significant opposition to the CWB was in southern Alberta. Most supported it. So your claim that "Westerners allowed Harper get away with it" is completely false.

And the results of that shutdown are still being felt - from the fact Churchill is cut off by a privatized and broken railway, to farmers not being able to get train cars to move their grain, to the closure of the Japanese and South Korean markets to Canadian wheat because no one is bothering to look after standards adequately.

So trying to pin the blame on those who are suffering the consequence just because some believe Harper's claim prairie farmers wanted this is kind of galling.

Wheat producers did not want this, and they fought it every step of the way.

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I'm sorry Pondering, I misunderstood. I strongly respect your support of Canadian Dairy producers.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Federal Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz acknowledged that only 10% of grain farmers wanted to end the Canadian Wheat Board.

8 of 10 farmer elected Board of Directors were supportive of the Wheat Board. So Harper appointed 5 more Board of Directors in order to dilute the strong support base the farmers had in the Board of Directors. That ploy proved to be unsuccessful.

The Canadian Wheat Board had a rule in their act that the Canadian Wheat Board could not dissolve unless it held a plebiscite vote and the majority of grain farmers wanted to end the CWB. So when he was elected with a majority government, he ovwr-ruled the Canadian Wheat Board Act and forced a vote in parliament to dismantle the Canadian Wheat Board.

Only 2% of the voters in western Canada were grain farmers. The election of Conservative MPs from the prairie provinces did not constitute a mandate by the grain farmers to end the CWB.

The entire process was dirty and corrupt.

http://www.cwbafacts.ca/war_on_the_wheat_board/

"Minister Ritz has acknowledged that only 10% of farmers want to end the Wheat Board. Given the very small membership acknowledged by the Western Barley Growers Association, the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association collapse, and the financial life-line provided to them by Government and private industry, it is fair to ask what value they bring to any debate around the Wheat Board,” said Gehl."

 

Pondering

Sorry Smith. I did know there was controversy but I assumed opinions were split enough for him to do it. After reading your links I see that was not the case. 

Thanks Misfit. I don't begrudge people making a good living, not even doctors or the average lawyer. They are not the people walking away with the lion's share. Certainly not farmers. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Pondering,

i think that you and I are on the same page with this. Again, I am sorry for misreading your post.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Smith wrote:

"...to the closure of the Japanese and South Korean markets to Canadian wheat because no one is bothering to look after standards adequately."

Under the Canadian Wheat Board, western Canadians had the highest grain standards and sold the cleanest wheat in the world. Our international reputation was impeccable, second to none.

The system in place now is a pathetic disgrace!!!

6079_Smith_W

No worries, Pondering. There was a lot of propaganda playing up the false idea that farmers supported this. Even here, a lot of people believed it.

 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Now I found this article on our inspection

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2858952system

Buyers of Canadian wheat say quality lower than during board's monopoly

"Problems have grown since 2012, when Ottawa stripped the Canadian Wheat Board of its centralized role in marketing wheat, said Sliworsky, who used to work for the wheat board. The following year, Ottawa cut one-third of the workforce of the Canadian Grain Commission, the agency responsible for quality."

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Misfit wrote:

This is so sad.

an Ontario woman was killed on the highway when driving her tractor across Canada to promote awareness about our dairy industry.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2018/07/09/ontario-woman-dies-in-a-car-crash-while-touring-to-promote-canadas-dairy-industry.html

I passed she and her husband on the highway last Friday and gave them a honk in support of what they were doing. It is so sad that this tragedy happened.

if Canadians had proper respect for their national dairy industry, they would not have had to promote awareness by driving across Canada and this wouldn't have happened.

I guess they had to promote awareness because the future of our dairy farmers is so lofty. Anyway, I guess that this is what some people think. Canadian producers will always be around to pick up on whatever slack our importers cannot handle.

Damn, that is awful. I am so sorry to hear that.

I recently had a conversation with someone who has working knowledge of the agricultural sector having produced programming and documentaries on the topic and he was trying to convince me that most dairy farmers are part of huge industrial farming conglomerates and not your family-run dairy farm. I had no idea how to react. My memories from the 70s were of visiting and spending time on Quebec family farms.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I recently had a conversation with someone who has working knowledge of the agricultural sector having produced programming and documentaries on the topic and he was trying to convince me that most dairy farmers are part of huge industrial farming conglomerates and not your family-run dairy farm. I had no idea how to react. My memories from the 70s were of visiting and spending time on Quebec family farms.

So, from what you're saying, it was his working knowledge of the agri sector versus your childhood memories.

What's your take now?  Do you think most dairy farms still consist of Mom and Pop, milking Daisy by hand while sitting on a three-legged stool?

Pondering

laine lowe wrote:

Misfit wrote:

This is so sad.

an Ontario woman was killed on the highway when driving her tractor across Canada to promote awareness about our dairy industry.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/canada/2018/07/09/ontario-woman-dies-in-a-car-crash-while-touring-to-promote-canadas-dairy-industry.html

I passed she and her husband on the highway last Friday and gave them a honk in support of what they were doing. It is so sad that this tragedy happened.

if Canadians had proper respect for their national dairy industry, they would not have had to promote awareness by driving across Canada and this wouldn't have happened.

I guess they had to promote awareness because the future of our dairy farmers is so lofty. Anyway, I guess that this is what some people think. Canadian producers will always be around to pick up on whatever slack our importers cannot handle.

Damn, that is awful. I am so sorry to hear that.

I recently had a conversation with someone who has working knowledge of the agricultural sector having produced programming and documentaries on the topic and he was trying to convince me that most dairy farmers are part of huge industrial farming conglomerates and not your family-run dairy farm. I had no idea how to react. My memories from the 70s were of visiting and spending time on Quebec family farms.

They may have banded together for purchasing power or equipment sharing or any number of other issues I know nothing about because I am not a farmer. 

conglomerate-a number of different things or parts that are put or grouped together to form a whole but remain distinct entities.

Even if they are corporate I still want our dairy cattle in Canada. I would not want to be at the mercy of the US.

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