Since North Report's thread means something else, this will be for NAFTA discussions and the future viability of our dairy industry
The future of our dairy industry in Canada and Supply Management
Sat, 2018-07-14 21:15
#1
Misfit
The future of our dairy industry in Canada and Supply Management
Mon, 2018-07-23 17:41
#2
Misfit
Bump
Mon, 2018-07-23 18:45
#3
Misfit
Pogo wrote:
"I think you are thinking of a business model that didn't exist. Nine families of Aunts and Uncles farmed all over Saskatchewan. I think I have one cousin now who owns a large farm which was subsidized by a government job (governemnt jobs and the oil rigs kept many farms afloat). It is now an industry with monstor tractors pulling impliments in a perfect pattern down to the inch (thanks to GPS technology). Volume and low cost operations are the key. Commodity farmers are no longer workers, they are COO of a corporation.
I just don't know if we need to worry about farm owners (farm employees - sure). "
"A business model that didn't exist."
Excuse me???? What Pondering talked about IS the business model that has always existed and still exists today.
So you have had aunts and uncles and cousins that farmed in Saskatchewan and that qualifies you to speak authoritatively on agricultural economics in commodity farming.
Ok. Let's get things straight here. Grain farmers have always used big machinery. This is not a new phenomenon. Today they do have GPS. However they have ALWAYS farmed in straight lines with an inch overlap. They don't need GPS to do that.
when I cultivated my dad allowed me three inches overlap because I was a girl and naturally inferior to males. My harrowing was impeccable with less than an inch overlap and NO GPS!
"Commodity farmers are no longer workers." WTF??? My family farms and they all work 50 times harder than you ever have. Do not redefine the living realities that farmers face. You don't know.
"I just don't know if we need to worry about farm owners (farm employees - sure)." This is he kind of backward bullshit that grain farmers in western Canada have always had to put up with from the ROC and especially urbanite armchair "experts" on how the grain industry works.
my all time ignorant asshole opinion that I could never shake from armchair experts was that Wheat Board cheques were not welfare cheques. It was so fucking pathetic and out to lunch that urbanites figured that the Wheat Board cheques were coming from their tax dollars so that they felt they had a legitimate right to try and meddle and interfere. Wheat board cheques were revenue payments for grain sales and nothing more.
Pogo, you talk about your cousin having to work for the government to make ends meat. Yes, people had to work off the farm to bring in the money to help keep the farm afloat. But you then explicitly say that we don't need to care about the farm owners, just their employees. Fuck those god damned farmers, eh?
Oh yes, and "Volume and low cost operations are the key."
God! Farmers are so stupid. They worked in government jobs and in the oil patch to make extra money to keep the farms going so that they could keep farming their high cost operations. All they had to do was make their operations low cost. Eureka! Farmers were just too stupid to figure that one out.
It doesn't matter what size the farm is, they are all high cost operations.
Mon, 2018-07-23 18:55
#4
Misfit
Progressive-17 wrote in the other thread:
"Making the poor pay more hurts them, no matter how hard you try to weasel out of it. They are doing badly enough for all the reasons you listed, and you want to punish them more."
if you drop supply side management, you will kill the Canadian dairy industry and you will not save much money by doing so. We will lose our dairy sovereignty and all the people working in the industry will be unemployed.
people should not be destitute in Canada. People deserve a proper standard of living. That is not the fault of our dairy farmers. Our governments are right wing and are absconding their responsibility of providing the proper social services and living standards that we need. Don't hurt the dairy farmers. They are not your enemy.
Mon, 2018-07-23 19:04
#5
Misfit
Sorry, I did not notice that Pondering responded to your post. She explained it very well.
Mon, 2018-07-23 19:53
#6
Today they do have GPS. However they have ALWAYS farmed in straight lines with an inch overlap. They don't need GPS to do that.
Then what's the GPS for now?
So they don't accidentally end up cultivating a field in Utah?
Mon, 2018-07-23 21:07
#7
Misfit
Cultivating a field in Utah would be bad.
GPS allows you to program and record how you seeded or sprayed or whatever. Then the next year, you can line say the sprayer up to where you want it to spray and it will remember what you did the last time and it will do it all automatically without you having to operate the machine.
but if you sprayed in a dry year and this year is a wet one, if you have it do it by GPS, the sprayer will drive right into a slough or big mud puddle and get really really really stuck and cost lots and lots and lots of money.
Mon, 2018-07-23 21:45
#8
Misfit
GPS is beneficial because with the massively large implements in use today you cannot see your edges clearly so you need GPS to map out your boundaries for you.
The chemicals they put on crops today are so powerful that you cannot overlap when you spray or you will kill all your crop that you overlapped. GPS allows you to not overlap.
The automatic steering on GPS reduces farmer fatigue. The farmer has to constantly look back to check whatever they have just done like if cultivating checking the shovel depth and checking for no breakage in any part of the implement the farmer is using. GPS reduces the fatigue and stain of steering ahead and constantly looking back.
and yes, while farmers can steer steaight, GPS can steer straighter and prevent overlaps and misses.
Farmers can farm without GPS. They always have been able to. With bigger machinery, farmers benefit from it more.
Tue, 2018-07-24 00:08
#9
Could Canada's supply-side management be maintained while allowing unlimited imports, especially from Europe? As it is, our market for cheese is inferior to Europe's, as the quality, quantity, and price there are better than ours. It seems to me that with a captive market there is not as much pressure on our producers to remain competitive with the world's leading cheese producers.
Tue, 2018-07-24 12:12
#10
Misfit
I have always been able to buy European cheese in the grocery store when recipes have called for it. The only difference is that those cheeses had an import tariff which made them more expensive to purchase.
Because the EU quit supply management of their dairy industry, their farmers have to excessively overproduce and dump their products on other markets in order to survive.
australia and New Zealand have also forced their farmers to compete on the international market in order to survive. Australian dairy farmers are struggling and New Zealand farmers overproduce and dump excessive quantities on the international market. They too are stressed out and struggling. These farmers live a very unstable existence and are under extreme pressure due to the economic uncertainty and volatility of the global market.
so European dairy farmers need to have markets for their excessive production. That means dumping dairy products on African nations. Local dairy farmers in many African countries cannot compete with the cheaper dairy coming in from Europe. This is most likely going to drive the indigenous dairy farmers out of business and these countries will be totally dependent on foreign sources for their dairy. And what if the EU imposes an economic embargo on a country that is now dependent on them for their dairy?
in my posts on the other thread, I included an article which shows that Canadian dairy is actually cheaper than American dairy. The only difference is that Canadians pay the full price at the grocery store and Americans pay less at the grocery store but way more through subsidies with their tax dollars.
Dairy farmers are not responsible for the high prices at the grocery store. The dairy processors, the wholesalers and the retailers are responsible for the higher prices.
the state of Wisconsin alone can produce enough dairy to take over the enire Canadian market.
If we want to get rid of supply management we need to also ask if we want a Canadian dairy industry at all. The United States can jump right on and take over.
Tue, 2018-07-24 12:18
#11
progressive17
Progressive-17 wrote in the other thread:
"Making the poor pay more hurts them, no matter how hard you try to weasel out of it. They are doing badly enough for all the reasons you listed, and you want to punish them more."
if you drop supply side management, you will kill the Canadian dairy industry and you will not save much money by doing so. We will lose our dairy sovereignty and all the people working in the industry will be unemployed.
people should not be destitute in Canada. People deserve a proper standard of living. That is not the fault of our dairy farmers. Our governments are right wing and are absconding their responsibility of providing the proper social services and living standards that we need. Don't hurt the dairy farmers. They are not your enemy.
As I am poor, everyone is my enemy.
Sun, 2018-09-09 14:58
#12
Misfit
Bump
Sun, 2018-09-09 15:02
#13
Misfit
The Maxime Bernier thread is about Maxime Bernier. One of his policies is to dismantle supply side management in Canada but his thread has morphed into a thread about supply side management of dairy.
I feel that discussions about dairy belong in this thread.