Turkey says no to US, currency is down almost 15% in day

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SeekingAPolitic...
Turkey says no to US, currency is down almost 15% in day

https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/usd-try

Watch the graph above.

Erogand refuses US pressure, the lira collaspe.  Trump duoble steel and aluimum tariffs in tweet agaisnt Turkey.

WWWTT

Thanks for starting the thread!

This one has some history that's worthy of some research. And a bunch of different angles Kurdish peoples, NATO, European Union, Syria, Iran, Russia, Russian weapons, probably China, Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. And maybe another half dozen!

NDPP should be able to provide more?

NDPP

How Turkey's Currency Crisis Came To Pass

https://t.co/jLCvU0By7Z

"Here is a recap of how it came to this..."

NDPP

ECB Fears Contagion From Turkish Lira Collapse, Bank Stocks Plunge

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/ecb-fears-contagion-turkish-lira...

"Now even the ECB is beginning to fret about the political impact the plummeting Turkish lira may have on Eurozone banks that are heavily exposed to Turkey's economy via large amounts in loans - much of it in euros - through banks they acquired in Turkey. Given the plunge in the lira, companies have trouble servicing their euro loans and are beginning to default. And loans in local currency are plunging in value along with the currency. This is how the currency crisis in Turkey, which is turning into a debt crisis could set off contagion effects among banks in France, Spain and Italy - a risk we have been exposing for two years..."

iyraste1313

Thanks for this re the crisis in Turkey and contagion effects to Europe......

August 10 - Financial Times (Daniel Dombey): "Some analysts have long seen Turkey as a 'quantitative easing play' - a country that benefited from developed economies' huge asset purchase schemes. But as US and eurozone quantitative easing becomes history - at least for this economic cycle - the funds that Turkey needs are getting harder to come by. Those funds are far from negligible. An ABN Amro report on Thursday said investors were worried Turkey would not be able to finance its annual external financing requirement of about $218bn - which includes funds needed to maintain Turkish companies' foreign-denominated debt as well as the country's hefty current account deficit."

Unlike Greece and Argentina...Turkey will not bow to the dictates of the IMF to receive short term funding...

As I have been reporting in my other threads...the global financial system is coming apart...a 300 plus year year experiment is going bust.....debt globally is unserviceable....which means war.....

WWWTT

I found several links but this one gives a balanced (in my opinion) coverage info perspective

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/13/638162581/whats-the-deal-with-the-deepeni...

The US is definetely putting the boots to Turkey! I believe that Turkey is contemplating leaving NATO! And the EU isn't going to ever let Turkey join so why waste time with them? Another thing I have noticed is that Turkey has a high profile as a "dialogue partner" at the SCO and was invited to the last BRICS meeting in South Africa. According to Erdogan, BRICS are all for Turkey joining! But I can't see a NATO member in BRICS, but if Turkey parts ways with NATO???

https://www.rt.com/news/434685-turkey-join-brics-eu-nato/

NorthReport

The sooner President Erdoğan is gone the better. 

The Pastor will be released soon.

NorthReport

Turkey lira crisis: Six things you need to know

A breakdown of the events, causes and effects, as Turkey's currency collapses amid a diplomatic row with the US.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/08/turkey-lira-crisis-18081413260110...

NorthReport

Turkey lira: Ankara to boycott US electronic goods

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45179673

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Wow.  Turkey's currency has lost half of its value in only a year.

Maybe they should peg their currency to the Venezuelan "Sovereign Bolivar" if they want to prevent devaluation.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Erdrogan is clearly using Mugabenomics. If the Z$ can go from Z$10 to $1 to Z$10 trillion to$1, who cares if the Turkish Lira does the same? Lucky for Erdrogan, he is not on the Euro, or it would be like Greece on steroids. 

As far as all the bwankers are concerned in the cultural capitals of Europe, the ECB can just bail them out as usual.

On any given day the world system could swallow a $1 trillion loss and no one would notice. This is peanuts.

WWWTT

Looks like China is going to provide some kind of minor help for Turkey

https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/2159507/china-may-...

WWWTT

NorthReport wrote:

The sooner President Erdoğan is gone the better. 

The Pastor will be released soon.

From what I'm reading/hearing I wouldn't hold your breath. Turkey's president is very popular right now. The US is the perceived total bad guy.

As far as the Turkish charges of aiding a terror group against this religous figure, I don't know anything to make an opinion? But I do know that every country has their own laws and enforces as they see fit.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

progressive17 wrote:

As far as all the bwankers are concerned in the cultural capitals of Europe, the ECB can just bail them out as usual.

Well, I thought the word "bankster" as a combination of banker and gangster was clever. But, wow, next to the banker and wanker combo, it's dim indeed.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

WWWTT wrote:

The US is definetely putting the boots to Turkey! I believe that Turkey is contemplating leaving NATO! And the EU isn't going to ever let Turkey join so why waste time with them? Another thing I have noticed is that Turkey has a high profile as a "dialogue partner" at the SCO and was invited to the last BRICS meeting in South Africa. According to Erdogan, BRICS are all for Turkey joining! But I can't see a NATO member in BRICS, but if Turkey parts ways with NATO???

I think Turkey has a very real chance of leaving NATO and joining BRICS. Whether or not the CIA really did encourage the failed coup, Erdogan seems to believe that they did. He has spent the time since then purging the military, police, judiciary, press, and private sector of those he believes were against him. This puts him in a uniquely strong position to defy the U.S. and join an alternate power centre.

Of course, this is only happening because Trump is such an incompetent asshole that he forces Erdogan to consider other alternatives.

WWWTT

North Report posted a link upthread about the lira losing value. It touches on the Indian roopi dropping in value as well. After a bit of research, right now there's a number of emerging countries that are faced with there currencies devaluation.

Here's a list of them South Korea, Indonesia, Mexico, China, Russia, South Africa, Brazil, India, Venezuela, Turkey.

The main focus but not limited to is Asia.

Also apparently this has a lot to do with the strengthening US buck

WWWTT

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I think Turkey has a very real chance of leaving NATO and joining BRICS. Whether or not the CIA really did encourage the failed coup, Erdogan seems to believe that they did. He has spent the time since then purging the military, police, judiciary, press, and private sector of those he believes were against him. This puts him in a uniquely strong position to defy the U.S. and join an alternate power centre.

Of course, this is only happening because Trump is such an incompetent asshole that he forces Erdogan to consider other alternatives.

Looks like we agree on most of what's going on. But I still believe that Turkey is pretty much done with the European Union. And for a good 50 years I'm thinking. And that is the catalyst, not Trump (but who knows? I'll add more)

Here's a link (a little dated) simple and easy to read that pretty much puts the idea of Turkey membership in the coffin and 6' under

https://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-tu...

Now you mention Trump's jack ass incompetence. Not so sure about this? Lots of people around the globe seem pissed off at him, but the US economy isn't hurting? If anything the US buck is surging ahead along with the economy. Trump is clearly a businessman and using his cut throat skills and levereging at every countries economy that the US trades with. Perhaps he's just riding an upturn cycle in their economy that would be there regardless even if the US president was nothing more than a pine cone or a blow up doll?

And if this is indeed the case, then Trump is making a lot of enemies that will come knocking at the US door when the US economy starts the slip end of the cycle.

NorthReport

Don't forget Canada or the UK either.

WWWTT wrote:

North Report posted a link upthread about the lira losing value. It touches on the Indian roopi dropping in value as well. After a bit of research, right now there's a number of emerging countries that are faced with there currencies devaluation.

Here's a list of them South Korea, Indonesia, Mexico, China, Russia, South Africa, Brazil, India, Venezuela, Turkey.

The main focus but not limited to is Asia.

Also apparently this has a lot to do with the strengthening US buck

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Looks like we agree on most of what's going on. But I still believe that Turkey is pretty much done with the European Union. And for a good 50 years I'm thinking. And that is the catalyst, not Trump (but who knows? I'll add more)

Here's a link (a little dated) simple and easy to read that pretty much puts the idea of Turkey membership in the coffin and 6' under

I agree that the idea of Turkish membership in the EU is dead. The reason it didn't go through decades ago was, in my opinion, european white supremacist and anti-islamic sentiment.

WWWTT

I'm going to keep an open mind here MM. I have before in the past believed your view about the EU being racist and Islamaphobic towards Turkey and their admitance into the EU.

But really MM, issues like Brexit and Greece fiasco nearly ripped apart the EU! If a fiasco with one of the smaller nations like Greece can jeopardize the very existence of the European Union, then a much larger country like Turkey with much more risk/potential for upending would surely throw the EU and their relating markets and confidence in those markets into freefall chaos!

From my understanding, one of the EU mantra's has always been taking micro baby steps in progressing the unification process.

The EU can only expand in so many physical directions (meaning north south east west) It's already gone as far North (Iceland, Noreway?) and West. Going East has been where their expansion focus has been because of all the smaller former eastern block nations are smaller and more willing to bend to the will of the EU making them ideal candidates.

So far I can only believe that the cultural/political gap between the EU and North Africa and a big chunk if not the rest of the geography moving east is far too great/risky for the EU to seriously consider.

The emergence of BRICS and the SCO has some unique distinct alternative potentials that Turkey appears very interested in!

BRICS and the SCO are very much more diverse and do not mandate that all the members become as closely intertwined as the EU. Each nation keeps their autonomy.  But the chance for benefits are greatly less vs the EU

And currently there is no Muslim nation in BRICS. I believe that India will block/veto Bangladesh and Pakistan, but if they are open to Turkey, I can see Turkey joining! 

If Turkey joins and there is a rebound in the Turkish financial prospects/economy, for sure Indonesia will jump in! Followed by Iran, latter Pakistan Bangladesh? Then there's other countries as well that do not have Muslim majorities, not sure where Nigeria fits in this, but I'm sure Nigeria must be on the potential BRICS expansion list.

Keep in mind that the Trump attack on the Turkish economy comes after the clear signals from Turkey that they could be leaving NATO and joining BRICS and the SCO. Pretty much like saying "well if you're going to leave us then we're going to fuck you up as much as we can just to piss you off". Just like an ugly divorce or break up

NDPP

The Global Implications of the Turkish Lira Crisis

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/08/16/pers-a16.html

"...In fact, the very measures undertaken by the governments and central banks of the major capitalist countries in response to the meltdown have exacerbated them. This has set the stage for the eruption of another financial disaster, potentially even more significant than that of a decade ago..."

NDPP

Trump Just Triggered A New Financial Crisis. Here's Why

https://on.rt.com/9cku

"Trump's attack on the Turkish lira, combined with recent Federal Reserve moves to choke off dollar supply, is pushing the world towards a re-run of the 1997 currency crisis. This may well be the whole point. Turkey's currency was already struggling, but these new sanctions are the straw that broke the camel's back. The effects are already being felt far beyond Turkey's borders..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The Global Implications of the Turkish Lira Crisis

Turkey isn't really a domino.  But if your Christmas cake recipe calls for dates, buy them now before they're 50 cents more expensive.

WWWTT

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
The Global Implications of the Turkish Lira Crisis

Turkey isn't really a domino.  But if your Christmas cake recipe calls for dates, buy them now before they're 50 cents more expensive.

Hi Mr Magoo, I got a question that's off topic. But how many beers have you had so far tonight?

NDPP

Fisk: A US Trade War With Turkey Over A Little Pastor? Don't Believe A Word of It.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50052.htm

"So you can see how things are lining up in the Middle East right now..." 

WWWTT

Thanks for the link NDPP! This link is really good because it summarizes the bizzare growing estranged relationship Turkey has with Syria Russia and the Kurdish peoples. 

I believe something else is going on here. I'm going to do some speculation.

I think BRICS has the US (possibly EU) by the nuts. Not so sure about Brazil though? But definetely China Russia and India! And the US sanctions against Iran was the trigger shot. I think the sanctions on Iran pissed off BRICS so much so that India and China may have threatened the US with some kind of economic retaliation that scared the fuck out of them. So they may have made some kind of deal so that everyone saves face (the US sanctions on Iran could have seriously pissed of the EU, Japan and South Korea as well).

I suspect that BRICS has finally drew a line. And is preparing a huge economic retaliation on the US. Since the US GDP is all debt, the US will be the big loser in all this so the huge mysteries web of red herrings is created that so much confusion abounds, no one really knows what's really going on. The US has already begged BRICS for mercy on their sorry asses and Turkey will be departing NATO then joining BRICS as punishment to US imperialism! (Balkanization of the western nations. Here's a link to emphasize the irony! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization)

As a concession, BRICS will compell Iran to pull out of Yemen and turn down the religous tone. Saudia Arabia will put their puppet government in Yemen.

Here's another powerful link that will flip your world up-side-down NDPP!

https://geopolitics.co/2017/04/21/saudi-arabia-switching-to-brics-allian...

It is very very possible that Freelands (ya you heard me right!) comments on Saudia Arabia may be evn part of this huge red herring web!

NDPP

We'll see...

WWWTT

Ya it's going to be real hard to see anything. There's a lot of things that need to happen before Turkey can pull out of NATO. Such as the US nuclear weapons and that NATO base in Turkey. From what I have read, the NATO forces at that base are scaling back, not so clear on the nukes there and I'm sure that is info we will never find out. It's very possible that the nukes are already pulled out? If so then that would be a for sign that Turkey is leaving NATO.

And really NDPP, Turkey may very well leave NATO and we may still never know for sure? The only real strong indicator I see is Turkey joining BRICS and the SCO. I have already posted links that clearly show that Turkey may very well be the strongest candidate for the next member of BRICS.

It's still early. I say give it till November December 2018 for more clear indicators to surface. Anything sooner could scare the shit out of too many markets, and nobody wants that!

NDPP

An overview of the regional 'work in progress' offers clues and possibilities...

Escobar: So What Will The Sanctioned Supergroup Do?

http://www.atimes.com/article/so-what-will-the-sanctioned-supergroup-do/

"...Erdogan knows very well how Turkey is the quintessential East-meets-West strategic connector across Eurasia. And he knows what he's really 'guilty' of: buying the S-400s, ditching the 'Assad must go' obsession, advancing the Turkish Stream and insisting Turkey will continue to buy Iranian oil.

Erdogan is doing the math on how a New Silk Roads partnership among equals, in tandem with a close relationship with the AIIB and the EAEU may be way more profitable than a toxic cocktail of oversized NATO, no EU and IMF neoliberal austerity.

The Black Sea, for all practical purposes, is being configured as a Russo-Turk-Mediterranean Sea - much as the Caspian is now configured as a Central Asian, non-NATO, Mediterranean Sea..."

iyraste1313

Trump Just Triggered A New Financial Crisis. Here's Why...

The financial crisis in Turkey has little to do with the machinations of  Trump policy...suggesting of course that if only he could be removed.....

It is systemic, the problems being the multi trillions controlled by the mega banks and shadow banking system...the hedge funds, derivative trades...ad nauseum, due to Central Bank policy of Quantitative Easing and zero interest rates....

And the demands that the Emerging Market countries borrow their funds for military escapades and development and of course corruption in US dollars, which has skyrocketed most recently partly due to the fact that US interest rates were the first to start going up and because of its traditional safe haven status. In reality the global systemic bubble burst in February.....the process is just working its way down to total collapse of the financial system, and corporate survival. Turkey, Argentina. Brazil, Malaysia, Eastern Europe, Venezuala....

The contagion effects of these first victims  now is hitting the European banking system...the Italians, the Germans!

As they were forced to make their profits on the backs of these emergency market debtors, what with the zero interest rates in the core countries; Western Europe, Japan and North America.

It's a systemic collapse we are witnessing!

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Hi Mr Magoo, I got a question that's off topic. But how many beers have you had so far tonight?

Sorry to be abstract.  I was just suggesting that I don't really think Turkey's economy is so big, so important or so interconnected with every other economy that this is going to cause some kind of munnee meltdown.  Lots of other countries went through or are going through worse devaluations without bringing down the whole house of cards.

But I think I did make one mistake -- if the Lira is devaluing that will make Turkish exports less expensive, not more.  Whoops.

NDPP

Will Turkey's Debt Crisis Go Viral (and vid)

https://youtu.be/JzErkE_mblk

"Professor Richard Wolff joins Thom Hartmann to explain how Turkey's debt could lead to a global economic meltdown and what this says about capitalism."

NorthReport

 

How many times have you cried wolf over basically the same thing which is probably not gonna happen?

Yes we live in a capitalistic system  but we have been for a long, long time, and nothing has much changed. The stock market is booming, real estate is booming, jobs are booming. What's not to like!   

iyraste1313 wrote:

Trump Just Triggered A New Financial Crisis. Here's Why...

The financial crisis in Turkey has little to do with the machinations of  Trump policy...suggesting of course that if only he could be removed.....

It is systemic, the problems being the multi trillions controlled by the mega banks and shadow banking system...the hedge funds, derivative trades...ad nauseum, due to Central Bank policy of Quantitative Easing and zero interest rates....

And the demands that the Emerging Market countries borrow their funds for military escapades and development and of course corruption in US dollars, which has skyrocketed most recently partly due to the fact that US interest rates were the first to start going up and because of its traditional safe haven status. In reality the global systemic bubble burst in February.....the process is just working its way down to total collapse of the financial system, and corporate survival. Turkey, Argentina. Brazil, Malaysia, Eastern Europe, Venezuala....

The contagion effects of these first victims  now is hitting the European banking system...the Italians, the Germans!

As they were forced to make their profits on the backs of these emergency market debtors, what with the zero interest rates in the core countries; Western Europe, Japan and North America.

It's a systemic collapse we are witnessing!

iyraste1313

Not about crying wolf...as the global finance asset bubble has burst....so it's just about watching the structures all come down...We are now into the collapse!!

Real Rout Returns As Brazil's Leftist Workers' Party Dominates Polls .....from zerohedge

How long do you imagine the bounty of financial assets in North America and Western Europe will continue...when its base of profit...the emerging markets at high capital returns...is going bankrupt?

Watch the bank stocks....which inevitably will pull down the DOW which is just a glorified finanical market now.......Italian banks, German banks...they are now!! in trouble....

wake up!!

NDPP

How Turkey's Crisis Might Fracture NATO

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/08/turkeys-crisis-might-fracture-na...

"...Even if Ankara's banking crisis does not trigger a global financial meltdown in the same manner in which, say, the Thai baht devaluation kicked off the 1997 Asian financial crisis, it may well fracture NATO's foundations..."

iyraste1313

The collapse of 2019 from W. Engdahl in Global Research...provides a good summary of the threat of increasing US Dollar valuation due to US Fed increasing interest rate hikes and flight to safety of the global private funds...

what is not emphasized is the effects of the contagion to the USA (and Canada), what with so much of international capital first mass investing in the Emerging Market countries, now fleeing.....

I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory laid out behind the growing crisis...rather an effect of the international system breaking down due to overburdoned debt...

whatever..... we must watch for the effects of the contagion...here at the core of the system

NDPP

Turkey's Erdogan Calls on Global Trading Partners To Smash US Dollar's 'Monopoly'

https://on.rt.com/9dk9

"Turkey will pursue non-dollar transactions in trade and investment with other countries, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in response to US santions. He compared the US behavior towards his country to 'wild wolves'.

'We need to gradually end the monopoly of the dollar once and for all by using local and national currency among us,' Erdogan said at a business forum in Kyrgyzstan. Turkey is currently struggling with a severe currency crisis triggered by escalating US sanctions..."