Doug Ford pulls the plug on green energy

12 posts / 0 new

Sun, 2018-07-22 16:57

WWWTT

I suspected something like this, but not such an aggresive attack on green energy!

First some background to bring everybody up to speed

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/07/13/tories-zap-758-green-...

Now on one of my houses near Peterborough Ontario, I have a 10KW solar panel system along with a 20 year microfit contract. 2017 was the last year for accepting new microfit contracts and I got it just in time. At first I was disappointed with the return, but after the snow melted on the roof during the colder months it looks like the system is producing the KW of electricity as predicted. I'm also still learning about this so I shouldn't jump to too many cunclusions prematurely.

I was really hoping that the ONDP was going to get elected in Ontario because I believe that Peter Tabuns would have continued a similar incentive for green energy but with an ONDP signiture!

Now when I build my next house, I was hoping to have a solar system installed on the roof. When talking with the engineers at the green energy company I dealt with, they wanted to participate in the design of the house (roof plan, pitch of roof and orientation of the house to maximize southern solar exposure). Also using electric forced air furnace with air source heat pump (reduces heating/cooling costs) and electric stove/oven/dryer (no gas appliances to reduce carbon footprint) All of these factors are used to help design the size and capacity of my next solar system.

But now it's all in jeopardy thanks to a bunch of redneck yahoos that don't care about the future!

Peter Tabuns is a little more diplomat than I so I'll sign off with his quote from the above link

NDP MPP Peter Tabuns (Toronto-Danforth) said Ford’s “war on science and the environment may be pleasing his friends in back rooms, and fulfilling promises he made to social conservatives that supported his election bid.”

“But for the rest of us, it’s going to mean lost jobs, billions of dollars wasted, and tangible environmental damage,” said Tabuns.

“We’re calling on Mr. Ford to put a pause on cancelling these contracts until we know just how much it’ll hurt.”

Sun, 2018-07-22 17:20

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
Rob Ford pulls the plug on green energy

Did you mean Doug?

Sun, 2018-07-22 17:22

WWWTT

Thanks Mr. Magoo! It's now corrected

Fri, 2018-08-17 16:59

WWWTT

Good old Doug Ford has got it in reverse and to the floor!

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/07/12/ontario-electric-car-rebate-can...

This guy and the opc are a bunch of yahoo jackasses that don't know shit from shineola!

Ontario is going to suffer!

Fri, 2018-08-17 17:02

WWWTT

The opc really deserves this lawsuit!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tesla-canada-sues-ontario-governm...

Fri, 2018-08-17 19:28

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
Some critics assailed the program as a subsidy for the rich

I'm sure that lots of working poor had to choose between a used 2003 Honda Accord and a brand new Tesla, and chose to save the planet. Where's their rebate?

I remember all the money *I* got for switching to re-useable shopping bags. I still haven't managed to spend all the money I get for drinking tap water instead of Dasani, and for sorting my garbage into green, blue and grey. And let's not forget the substantial incentive $$$ to buy and ride a bike, or to buy a transit pass, or to turn your thermostat down in winter.

Why should someone rolling their nickels and cashing in their bottles to buy a $45K car not get something from the public purse after everyone else who's doing what they can gets those fat cheques we all get??

Fri, 2018-08-17 20:33

WWWTT

OK fair enough Mr Magoo.

But it's well known that new tech is always expensive when it first comes out.

My 10K solar panel system cost after HST rebate around 30,ooo. About 7-8 years ago the same system would be around 70, ooo after the rebates. I've even heard higher!

Now if the government was really serious about green energy alternatives, they would look at other incentives for e bikes e scooters etc etc

I'm also under the impression that electric cars are actually way cheaper to produce. Far less moving parts and much more durrable long lasting.

I believe the future will see the internal combustion engine gone and replaced by electric motor vehicle. But Ontario will be slower to catch up thanks to Ford

Fri, 2018-08-17 21:43

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
I believe the future will see the internal combustion engine gone and replaced by electric motor vehicle. But Ontario will be slower to catch up thanks to Ford

Flat screen televisions and computer monitors beat down old CRTs in only a couple of years, solely because they were cheaper and better. They didn't need a dowry.

What's stopping eCars from doing the same? Geez. Early VCRs were, like, $1200, and people bought them because they were awesome. But if Doug Ford won't give someone a few thousand for spending tens of thousands, people don't want electric cars now?

Sat, 2018-08-18 08:41

WWWTT

Spending a grand on a gadget can't really be compared to buying a 10KW roof solar system for 35K or an E-car for 40-50K. That electric car has a much greater impact. There's a whole entire local and off shore economy to support that electric car and that electric car, in numbers will create a huge shift away from the oil industry.

A flat screen TV is just another electric gadget that replaced the tube TV, another electric gadget that plugs into any 120v outlet.

Obviously what you are suggesting isn't working. Or it would have already happened. E cars are competing with the oil industry that is already established decades ago. Small 10KW roof top solar power generation systems are competing with nuclear and gas multi billion projects (paid for with your tax dollars by the way!)

The provincial incentives are to make such small scale power generation projects available to more people. And make electric cars available to more people. People have a budget that they have to work with. And many of us are considering buying one, including me! And people like me are helping this country go green! Its called "putting your money where your mouth is!" Give us a fuckin break already for fucks sake!

Sat, 2018-08-18 17:05

#10

Mr. Magoo

I'm not really talking about solar panels. I might agree that they should be incentivized because they produce electricity, they don't just consume it.

Electric cars are really something if you know you're charging one with clean hydroelectric (or, though less likely, geothermal, solar or biomass). But if not, if your electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels, you're really just making sure they're burned elsewhere. What's more, the combined inefficiencies of generating the electricity, transporting it, and the car itself probably mean you're burning MORE fossil fuels than if you just burned them right in the car.

Anyway, I guess what's slightly frustrating is that if you're already financially comfortable enough to drop $40-50K on a new car, the government is supposed to reward you with some money for your choice to not burn dinosaur juice, but if you can't afford that car and so you bike everywhere or walk everywhere (which burns even less dinosaur juice) there's nothing for you.

It's kind of like when you've been a long-time customer of a bank or phone provider or cable provider and suddenly they have some great new thing to give to new customers -- three free months, or a tablet computer, or whatever -- but it only applies to "new" customers. The customers who've been paying their bills for years get zilch.

Sat, 2018-08-18 17:32

(Reply to #10) #11

cco

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Electric cars are really something if you know you're charging one with clean hydroelectric (or, though less likely, geothermal, solar or biomass). But if not, if your electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels, you're really just making sure they're burned elsewhere. What's more, the combined inefficiencies of generating the electricity, transporting it, and the car itself probably mean you're burning MORE fossil fuels than if you just burned them right in the car.

I raised this question with Stephen Guilbeault of Equiterre last year, and his response was that electric cars are so much more efficient at power conversion that even if your electricity comes from the dirtiest source (coal), you're still producing fewer emissions than driving a gasoline-powered car. I was skeptical, but data seem to back that up -- and of course, in Québec, the vast majority of our power comes from hydro.

As far as subsidies only going to people rich enough to buy new cars, there's another thread going about the need to subsidize fare-free transit.

Sun, 2018-08-19 09:23

#12

lagatta4

Yes, almost all our energy is clean hydro (though it did have a huge environmental impact on Northern Québec and its Indigenous peoples). We have a growing number of charging stations - there is one just around the corner from me, and others just south and just north of Jean-Talon Market. And there are usually cars charging.

But of course the main change needed is more investment in electrified public transport. Perhaps e-bikes too, though I prefer riding an old-fashioned push-bike. It would be different if I worked on my feet all day, but I need the daily exercise.

The CAQ wants to block plans for the Pink Line, though we dearly need relief lines as the eastern end of the u-shaped Orange line into downtown is terribly overburdened southbound into the city centre.

I wonder if Ottawa area electric car owners will be crossing into Gatineau for cheaper Québec electricity?