Canada's left needs federal and provincial parties like Quebec Solidaire

Yes, I'd be very happy to pick up Jean-Martin Aussant and Véronique Hivon - Aussant was hesitating between the PQ and QS, and Hivon is simply far more forthright and not comfortable with red-baiting or nativism, as compared to Lisée. Yes, of course there are Marxists in QS; I'm a Marxist of sorts but as an ecosocialist, and socialist feminist, have many other historical influences that are just as important. In that sense, there were most certainly Marxists in the early PQ - as well as liberation theologists. Other than the wilful confusion of the ideas of Marx and Engels with Stalinist dictatorship, their baits also wilfully overlook the fact that there are more radical and more moderate elements in all parties of a certain importance. I'm sure there are La Meute types in the PQ and even farther right elements in the ranks of the CACA, of both the identitaire and Randian types, as well as outright fascists. And some very far-right elements in the Liberal party including angryphones as well as those committed to deepening social and economic inequalities.

Not even a deep and extended study of history, political science or social anthropology enables us to predict the future with any certainty; Marx did teach us that history is full of irony, twists and turns.  But I do consider the eventuality of QS joining the PQ most unlikely; I think the more leftwing elements still in the PQ would join or vote QS (though most of these are old trade unionists, and many of them retired) and the more rightwing the CAQ, except for a rump group that might form a new version of the Parti indépendantiste.

As for "not the NDP", isn't the most likely scenario a new version of the Waffle, as well as other, independent movements?

I keep hoping that a Red/Green party will arise but I am to old to lead a mass movement. In BC the NDP has been captured by the petroligarchy and the Greens have no class consciousness. We need a party that will fight for the planet and fight for our underclass of marginalized, both workers and those that are not able to. The BC NDP is going ahead with Site C and LFG development and it will phase in an increase in minimum wages that shows that they haven't a clue about poverty level wages. I would love to duct tape together a coalition.

I think it is great that they saw success in this election. I wouldn't assume there is any kind of magic formula though, in Quebec, or for anywhere else in the country. 

So yes, it should be an inspiration, but I don't see it a message that we have to to set up QS franchises, but rather to keep focused on the work many have been doing all along. If there really is a need for movements in other provinces to form other parties, I think that will be come clear in its own time too.

Here's what I wrote in Ken Burch's thread on replacing the NDP:

I would love to see a more QS type party emerge, either at the national or provincial level (my home province is BC).

The provincial level here in BC has greater prospects for the emergence of a QS type party at the moment. The provincial government is holding another referendum on proportional representation, this one by mail-in ballot, with ballots being mailed out later this month. If the referendum passes and we get proportional representation, opportunities to create a QS type party will increase.

Unfortunately, the BC NDP government has not been doing nearly enough to promote the referendum -- they wouldn't dare engage in the kinds of activist rallies and street theatre that could give it publicity -- and the corporate media has been completely ignoring it. Not to mention that much of the activist left that would form a natural support base for the Yes side in the referendum has been preoccupied with the upcoming municipal elections on October 20 -- working to elect candidates who will actually do something to alleviate the serious housing crisis in the Metro Vancouver part of the province.

Vancvouver's housing is crazy. That town has been mega gentrified.I think a tent attached to an outhouse will cost you a cool million in Vancouver's housing market. They have a major housing problem.

Montreal's housing situation isn't as bad but minimum wage jobs can't cut it. You're looking at 80% of your income just on rent. Never mind social assistance. Funny thing is there are a lot of  social housing units sitting vacant. Why they are not filled with a tenate (s) makes no sense to me. I think there's an idea of waitimg until all units are empty at any of these buildings to be sold to a private enterprise which will turn them into condos (that's my personal conspiracy theory)

What SHOULD happen in our major cities is a law that stipulates that for every 2 condos built 1 affordable housing unit has to be built,

How we can do it? Is by enticing appartment projects that the property taxes will rise on condos and the government will waive all property taxes for the affordable housing buildings. Then these rich real estate owners will get their precious profit.

That might get something done.

Pondering wrote:

QS has 16% so less than the NDP so I don't think being more like QS would deliver better results at the voting booth. 

Yes, people are getting a bit ahead of the game in talking about QS as a model for success. Relative to how they were doing before, they're now doing pretty well, and there is a certain psychological milestone in besting the PQ's seat count.

But the fact remains that they're a third-party,  with less support than the federal NDP got in 2015, and less popular-vote even than the now-widely mocked PQ.  They might be a model for other marignal parties seeking to leap ahead; not so much for parties that are already doing better than them.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

People are mistaken to think that housing on the West Coast is a Vancouver issue. It is a major issue in every coastal community.

In BC the NDP is going ahead with an LFG plant while the Greens complain the BC Liberals' are for it. The NDP can't pass a significant minimum wage increase because the Greens are more interested in protecting small business owners in the "green" sector and would vote with the BC Liberals.

I am hopeful that a if we get PR we can get a new party. However the NDP cabal at the Burnaby headquarters has always resisted PR even if they ran on it this time.

While it may be a crisis in BC, it is an issue across the country. The places where it is not leading to skyrocketing housing there are low wages so affordability is an issue (if not at Vancouver levels).

I have wondered if a cabon tax might be a good replacement for most property taxes. Having cities be sustained on effectively a tax on housing, an over priced essential, is not sensible. Many people do not realize how much property taxes are in residential rents.

I can imagine a better situation where property taxes for business are left in place; residential apartment buildings no longer taxed (only the business profit from them). Most long-term residential property tax is eliminated in favour of a carbon tax and a wealth tax and a short term rental tax (properties dedicated to air b&b type occupancy). The wealth tax, when it comes to property would be based on local rates so that a high Vancouver value property would not be taxed at the equivalent rate as a luxury estate in St. John NB. Flexability ought to be allowed to cities locally to produce their best tax systems to deal with their needs, but as beneficiaries of a carbon tax they would not be reliant on housing for the bulk of their revenues.

A modern city does not look like it did 150 years ago. Being taxed on the same basis as they were then is not sensible.

Another issue is the one dealing with transit -- but I have spoken on that a few times recently.

What the Quebec result shows is that a party of conviction can gain support...that it's not necessary for left-of-center parties to present themselves as bland and "respectable" to pull a respectable vote share, especially since those parties centering blandness and "respectability"-PQ in Quebec, the NDP federally and in most provincial sections-are stagnating if not slowly dying at the polls.

A left-of-center party can't be exactly like a social movement, but it can't prosper any more by simply presenting itself as the champion of slightly humanizing the status quo, so long as the slight humanization doesn't in any way annoy the wealthy.  If you've focused on appeasing Bay Street/Wall Street, you've given up on doing anything that makes any real difference, anything that represents any meaningful change, anything anyone will even NOTICE.  And if it's not even noticeable that you're leading a left-of-center government...what the hell is the point?  Why bother?  Nothing unnoticeable can be of any value.

Quote:

The 16% is relative...it's after only a handful of elections.

Something about it must be "relative", because it's almost exactly the same number that, in another thread, you call a "useless, hopeless ... dead zone of support".

It's great that QS got more support this election, and increased their seat count dramatically, but we can't just extrapolate that line.  Remember when the NDP made massive and unexpected gains in QC?

pietro_bcc wrote:

Pondering wrote:

QS has 16% so less than the NDP so I don't think being more like QS would deliver better results at the voting booth. 

A party can mix activism and politics, and remain true to its principles. Nevertheless they have to be one or the other first. 

QS more than doubled its vote share and seat count in the last election, while the federal NDP lost a third of its support in the last election and is currently polling around the levels that QS achieved. The NDP should emulate a left wing party that is growing rather than their current strategy that is delivering stagnation.

 QS formed in 2006, CAQ formed in 2011. We won't know for a very long time but QS most likely hit their ceiling

I don't think parties on the left should move right, or centre or more left or be more like any other  party. I think they need to think about things they can easily achieve within a four year mandate that the majority of people will support.

Example, sliding scale traffic tickets. Anyone making 150K or lower would be paying what they pay now or less. That would be the 99% and it would generate revenue. Not only does it cost nothing it could generate more revenues to fund other progressive programs and it's more fair. 

In Quebec the Arts are heavily funded and universities get lots of government money too. I would require that a portion of that funding go towards developing programs like Tout le Monde at 2 or 3 levels of French directed specifically at non-francophones to invite them into French culture. I would want a sit-com style show about interactions between culture groups. On a current reality show 5 people have a turn cooking for the others who then mark them. At the end of the week one of them wins 100$ or something like that. Maybe it's 500$. Maybe a show about games in different cultures. 

My point is don't think about the other parties and where everyone is on the spectrum and all the important social justice movements to develop a platform. Think about the next 4 years and what can be delivered within that time frame that is difficult to attack and addresses concerns of the 99%.

QS does support nationalization of some industries using Hydro Quebec as an example which is a great platform item but everyone knows that would be a complicated thing to deliver on and would possibly take more than 4 years. 

Neoliberals win elections based on unearned credit for economic success and promises to lower taxes without cutting services much. Then they get elected and do as they please. 

The problem with the NDP is that after they win elections they seem to move farther right to prove themselves economically responsible. Either that or they sell out after winning, or they sold out long ago. 

QS has the far left independence votes in Quebec. There may be some stragglers in the PQ but not many. They also have some far left federalists.