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Maclean's declares Trudeau premiership over-My question: Why does JWR want an Andrew Scheer premiership?

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Sun, 2019-02-24 17:54

#1

Rob8305

Maclean's declares Trudeau premiership over-My question: Why does JWR want an Andrew Scheer premiership?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/jody-wilson-raybould-has-trudeau-i...

Take out the question that the PM is obviously a criminal. Even I can't deny that based on all the facts and shifting stories on SNC-Lavalin.

This thread is meant to be about why JWR decided that this was the hill to die on and force a Scheer majority government over?

Why is she so willing to hurt so many people who can't afford to be hurt by an Andrew Scheer government. Surely, she knows that what she is doing has one and only one inoxerable conclusion: A Scheer (Harper-lite) majority government, perhaps for a decade or more? Is she the obvious frontrunner for the Liberal leadership once she forces Trudeau out? Is that her game as the final paragraphs in the article discuss? Additionally, can she justify 10 years or more of lost progress on climate change, et al, to eventually attain her ultimate goal, which I assume is ideological purity? Furthermore, is she confident that she can withstand PM Scheer's conservative attack ad machine, something Dion, Ignatieff, and even Trudeau, for a time, all withered on the vine, due to.

If so, she has mounted a brilliant coup d'e'tat, the likes of which is rarely seen. The question is if it will be Scheer or her that take the reigns of power. How can she be so sure she will win that bet?

Perhaps she is simply Canada's version of Jill Stein, electing Trump because Clinton was more unpalatable to her than Trump was.

Lastly, it's extraordinary to have a PM that broke the law and will have to resign within hours or days, in his first term no less! Breathtaking. Perhaps, in the end, like Bill Clinton gave Ken Starr the rope to hang him on, perhaps JT simply gave JWR the rope on which to execute him with and she intends to do just that.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:30

#2

bekayne

Rob8305 wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/jody-wilson-raybould-has-trudeau-i...

Keep in mind that the guy who wrote that worked for Harper.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:34

#3

wage zombie

Don't believe everything you read.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:42

#4

blairz

blairz's picture

What, you don't think Liz May can pull this off?

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:50

#5

cco

Rob8305 wrote:

This thread is meant to be about why JWR decided that this was the hill to die on and force a Scheer majority government over?

Why is she so willing to hurt so many people who can't afford to be hurt by an Andrew Scheer government. Surely, she knows that what she is doing has one and only one inoxerable conclusion: A Scheer (Harper-lite) majority government, perhaps for a decade or more?

...Perhaps she is simply Canada's version of Jill Stein, electing Trump because Clinton was more unpalatable to her than Trump was.

It takes a staggering amount of contempt for not only the voters but the concept of democracy itself to essentially say that Jody Wilson-Raybould was under an obligation to cover up and go along with Trudeau's corruption because, once it was exposed, the only alternative was a Scheer government. Trudeau could've either refused the illegal donations or taken the money and then accepted not giving SNC-Lavalin a get-out-of-prosecution-free card (or at least not fired JWR for refusing it). He also could've kept his promise on electoral reform, which would've dramatically reduced the likelihood of a majority Tory government. Why aren't you blaming Trudeau?

Oh, that's right: Because the Liberal brand identity begins and ends, much like the Clinton brand did, with being The Only Non-Conservatives. You have no choice! Vote for us or the world ends! You'll take what we give you and you'll like it, or else you're complicit in forcing the far right on people!

If Andrew Scheer's the next prime minister after October, Trudeau can find the culprit in the mirror. None of us – cabinet ministers, privy council clerks, or just ordinary voters – are obligated to help maintain the Trudeau narrative simply because the Tories are repulsive. That attitude of entitlement's what kept the Liberals out of power from 2006 to 2015, not Canadians who simply refused to see that their only choice was to vote Liberal.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:51

#6

Rob8305

JWR is unfathomably selfish. There were ways to deal with this illegality other than running to Bob Fife, who anyone who follows his work as closely as I have, knows is the biggest Conservative hack therever was in Canada.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:52

#7

NorthReport

More importantly don’t believe anything Liberals say as very little or none of it ever materializes.

Remember the real reason Liberals and Conservatives get into politics is that they are just fronting for all these corporations. To these right-wingers being in government is about one thing only and that is who gets the next government contract Do you think for one second Stephan Harper cares about the abortion issue? Similarily do you think Justin Trudeau cares one iota about ethics? It’s all about making their rich friends richer. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:01

(Reply to #7) #8

Rob8305

cco wrote:
Rob8305 wrote:

This thread is meant to be about why JWR decided that this was the hill to die on and force a Scheer majority government over?

Why is she so willing to hurt so many people who can't afford to be hurt by an Andrew Scheer government. Surely, she knows that what she is doing has one and only one inoxerable conclusion: A Scheer (Harper-lite) majority government, perhaps for a decade or more?

...Perhaps she is simply Canada's version of Jill Stein, electing Trump because Clinton was more unpalatable to her than Trump was.

It takes a staggering amount of contempt for not only the voters but the concept of democracy itself to essentially say that Jody Wilson-Raybould was under an obligation to cover up and go along with Trudeau's corruption because, once it was exposed, the only alternative was a Scheer government. Trudeau could've either refused the illegal donations or taken the money and then accepted not giving SNC-Lavalin a get-out-of-prosecution-free card (or at least not fired JWR for refusing it). He also could've kept his promise on electoral reform, which would've dramatically reduced the likelihood of a majority Tory government. Why aren't you blaming Trudeau?

Oh, that's right: Because the Liberal brand identity begins and ends, much like the Clinton brand did, with being The Only Non-Conservatives. You have no choice! Vote for us or the world ends! You'll take what we give you and you'll like it, or else you're complicit in forcing the far right on people!

If Andrew Scheer's the next prime minister after October, Trudeau can find the culprit in the mirror. None of us – cabinet ministers, privy council clerks, or just ordinary voters – are obligated to help maintain the Trudeau narrative simply because the Tories are repulsive. That attitude of entitlement's what kept the Liberals out of power from 2006 to 2015, not Canadians who simply refused to see that their only choice was to vote Liberal.

What about JWR's obligation to me to ensure that her moves do not directly negatively impact my life through vicious Sheer neo-con policies. Do I not count? Do others like me not count?

The opinions expressed in this post are precisely why we had 8 years of a Bush presidency and 4 years (or more?) of a Trump presidency.

Question: Do you see any difference in the way that Hillary Clinton and Al Gore would have run their administrations versus Donald Trump and George W. Bush? Any difference between a re-elected Paul Martin in 2006 and Stephen Harper?

My contempt is for people who live in Ivory towers who have no concept or understanding whatsoever at how damaging Conservative policies are for the least fortunate amongst us, not to mention the middle class, and the entire planet via climate change. Evidently, SNC-Lavalin is worth withdrawing from the Paris Climate accord for, etc?

Lastly, you have every right to the opinions expressed above but any criticsm that you may level at the coming Scheer regime will seem hollow in light of this post. If the far left is so unhappy, it's time for them to field candidates that are competent and can win the support of a broad array of Canadian voters. Bernie Sanders is the first politician who I've ever seen from the far left who seems to have this potential. Present to me a Canadian Bernie Sanders with his level of appeal and then perhaps I'll be less fearful, and less supportive of Trudeau, who I support merely because the alternative is unfathomable.

Sun, 2019-02-24 18:56

(Reply to #8) #9

bekayne

cco wrote:

Trudeau could've either refused the illegal donations or taken the money and then accepted not giving SNC-Lavalin a get-out-of-prosecution-free card (or at least not fired JWR for refusing it).

Are you talking about the ones that happened before he became leader? Or are these some new ones we haven't heard about.

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:00

(Reply to #9) #10

cco

Rob8305 wrote:

The opinions expressed in this post are precisely why we had 8 years of a Bush presidency and 4 years (or more?) of a Trump presidency.

No. People who voted for Bush and Trump are.

Rob8305 wrote:

Question: Do you see any difference in the way that Hillary Clinton and Al Gore would have run their administrations versus Donald Trump and George W. Bush? Any difference between a re-elected Paul Martin in 2006 and Stephen Harper?

Yep. I also see even more difference in the way Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, or Jack Layton and Paul Martin, would have run their administrations. [i]I will not be blackmailed into voting for anyone.[/i] If the average Liberal voter adopted that attitude, the choice wouldn't be between bad and worse. Just imagine a world where politicians earned votes instead of threatening voters.

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:04

(Reply to #10) #11

Rob8305

cco wrote:
Rob8305 wrote:

The opinions expressed in this post are precisely why we had 8 years of a Bush presidency and 4 years (or more?) of a Trump presidency.

No. People who voted for Bush and Trump are.

Rob8305 wrote:

Question: Do you see any difference in the way that Hillary Clinton and Al Gore would have run their administrations versus Donald Trump and George W. Bush? Any difference between a re-elected Paul Martin in 2006 and Stephen Harper?

Yep. I also see even more difference in the way Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, or Jack Layton and Paul Martin, would have run their administrations. [i]I will not be blackmailed into voting for anyone.[/i] If the average Liberal voter adopted that attitude, the choice wouldn't be between bad and worse. Just imagine a world where politicians earned votes instead of threatening voters.

Jack Layton captured my heart and I truly thought he could lead a minority government. The results on May 2, 2011, were staggering to me. They showed me that even someone like Jack Layton wasn't considered centrist enough amongst the general public to be worthy of their votes. If even the late Great Jack Layton is intolerable to the centrist Ontarian, pray tell what kind of further left candidate would be!

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:06

(Reply to #11) #12

cco

Rob8305 wrote:

My contempt is for people who live in Ivory towers who have no concept or understanding whatsoever at how damaging Conservative policies are for the least fortunate amongst us, not to mention the middle class, and the entire planet via climate change. Evidently, SNC-Lavalin is worth withdrawing from the Paris Climate accord for, etc?

If I lived in an ivory tower, I might be more comfortable with voting for a millionaire like Trudeau. I don't, and I'm not. I vote for politicians who will actually support me, not ones who will pretend to and then threaten me with the Tory boogeyman when I call them on their conduct.

Rob8305 wrote:

Lastly, you have every right to the opinions expressed above but any criticsm that you may level at the coming Scheer regime will seem hollow in light of this post. If the far left is so unhappy, it's time for them to field candidates that are competent and can win the support of a broad array of Canadian voters. Bernie Sanders is the first politician who I've ever seen from the far left who seems to have this potential. Present to me a Canadian Bernie Sanders with his level of appeal and then perhaps I'll be less fearful, and less supportive of Trudeau, who I support merely because the alternative is unfathomable.

It's really disgusting to blame only the left for when the center-right loses to the far right, instead of [i]the people who voted for the far right[/i]. My vote isn't "up for grabs", as opposed to the unshakeable Liberal and Conservative voters. If Trudeau wants votes from the left, he should consider doing something that appeals to left-wing voters.

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:09

wage zombie

I refuse to have a conversation about how life is going to be after 10 years of a Scheer administration. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.

Sun, 2019-02-24 19:34

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
What about JWR's obligation to me to ensure that her moves do not directly negatively impact my life through vicious Sheer neo-con policies. Do I not count? Do others like me not count?

First of all, she's under no such obligation to you or others like you. Her obligations were to good and honest governance, and it would appear she upheld that obligation, even at a cost to herself.

But even if the Liberal government is reduced to one seat, and even if Scheer seems to be gaining in the polls, nobody is somehow obligated to structure their behaviour around your apparent belief that a Con majority would somehow be inevitable. If you detest the Cons, and you can't support Trudeau, you and others like you can always vote NDP or Green. So can everybody. Maybe they won't! But because they chose not to, not because they can't.

Sun, 2019-02-24 23:48

quizzical

i call bs on who started this thread. who calls Prime Minister the Premiership?

not from this country imv.

Mon, 2019-02-25 01:23

(Reply to #15) #16

voice of the damned

quizzical wrote:

i call bs on who started this thread. who calls Prime Minister the Premiership?

not from this country imv.

This thread seems like it was started by someone trying to make Liberals look like demented cultists who believe their leader should be held above the law no matter what.

Mon, 2019-02-25 12:35

Martin N.

“I learned that he that will be a hero will barely be a man; that he that will be nothing but a doer of his work is sure of his manhood.” –George MacDonald

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything" - unknown

This is the primary concern with Trudeau and his government. He has not overcome the narcissism of childhood to stand as a man. (Wo)Men stand upright, they are not held upright by others.

Mon, 2019-02-25 15:28

(Reply to #17) #18

Ken Burch

Martin N. wrote:

“I learned that he that will be a hero will barely be a man; that he that will be nothing but a doer of his work is sure of his manhood.” –George MacDonald

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything" - unknown

This is the primary concern with Trudeau and his government. He has not overcome the narcissism of childhood to stand as a man. (Wo)Men stand upright, they are not held upright by others.

It follows, then, that the non-binary hold up everybody ELSE.

Mon, 2019-02-25 15:32

Ken Burch

Also, it's silly to argue that JWR wants an Andrew Scheer government. She simply wanted Justin and Co. held accountable on all of this, and there was no way to get such accountability without going public.

Mon, 2019-02-25 17:33

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

alan smithee's picture

As usual New Democrats are wringing their hands and cheering foir the Conservatives. It's pathetic. BTW, Maclean's leans solidly to the right, the fact that they are writing off the Liberals is more based in masturbatory partisanship.

Nobody knows exactly what this 'scandal' will do to the Liberal brand and calling Trudeau a criminal is laughably absurd. SNC Lavalin has been corrupt for as long as I can remember but much like Bombardier,Make no mistake,Scheer would be in the same position if he were PM. SNC Lavalin and Bombardier are ALWAYS protected.

And speaking about Scheer and the CONservatives , this reminds me of the trashing the Ontario and Quebec Liberals got here and in our right wing media. There were a lot of good things Wynne was going to do before people (especially here) cheerleaded for Ford. And all those good policy proposals by the OLP disappeared into history. How are you all liking your new Premier?

The LPC has promised criminal justice reform which started with the legalization of cannabis and building thousands of new social housing units. All of that is TOAST with Scheer's fascists..uh I mean CONservatives.

A right wing Ontario,a right wing Quebec,the alreadsy right wing Prairies now a far right CONservativer government and a Neo-nazi party in the US...This helps progressives exactly how? This is why you're all a bunch of jokers.