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josh

The EU, from its common market predecessor, through Maastricht and the euro has been a neoliberal (right wing) project.  The free flow of capital, monetarist fiscal policy and restrictions on government economic interventions make that as clear as day.  They window dress it with some liberal social policy to try to make it seem otherwise.  But the project has been not only anti-socialist, but anti-Keynesian from day one.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the west is a neoliberal project and has been for a very long time. and things can get worse than being in the eu.

Ten Proposals to Beat the European Union

quote:

7. Implement radical tax reform.

Remove VAT on basic consumer goods and services, such as food, electricity, and water (up to a certain level of consumption per individual), as well as other basic utilities. On the other hand, increase VAT on luxury goods and services, etc. We also need to increase the taxes on corporate profits and incomes above a certain level — in other words, a progressive tax on income, wealth, and luxury residences. The reform of taxation must produce immediate effects: a very significant decrease in indirect and direct taxes for the majority of the population and a very significant increase for the wealthiest 10 percent and for major corporations. Also, strict new measures will be taken against fraud and tax evasion.

8. Deprivatize — “buy back” — privatized companies for a symbolic euro.

Paying no more than a symbolic euro to those who have benefited from privatizations would be an appropriate gesture and would strengthen and extend public services under citizen control.

9. Implement a broad emergency plan for creating socially useful jobs and for economic justice.

Reduce working hours with no reduction in wages. Repeal antisocial laws and adopt laws to remedy the situation of abusive morgage debt; countries such as Spain, Ireland, Greece, etc. are the most concerned. This could well be fixed by adopting adequate legislation, to avoid court actions (since many households have to face legal action requested by banks).

For example, a parliament could pass a law to cancel mortgage debts below €150,000 and thus bring such cases to an end. A vast program of public expenditure would be implemented in order to stimulate employment and socially useful activity by encouraging circuits of local production and distribution.

10. Initiate a genuine constituent process.

This does not imply constitutional changes within the framework of the existing parliamentary institutions. It involves dissolving the parliament and electing a constituent assembly by direct vote.

Sean in Ottawa

epaulo13 wrote:

..the west is a neoliberal project and has been for a very long time. and things can get worse than being in the eu.

Exactly. And many of the people who want to destroy it, in many cases, are people for whom it is not near right wing enough.

 The struggle for alternative voices exists both in an out of the EU.

josh

The West is a neoliberal project?  Not only does that evade the issue, I’m not even sure what it means

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

The West is a neoliberal project?  Not only does that evade the issue, I’m not even sure what it means

It means that the EU is no more a right wing project than the countries that formed it. In or out the same tendency is there and so is the struggle.

Now some countries have out right-winged the EU and those are the ones calling for its destruction as they believe they can go further to the right than the EU will let them. Now this right wing project can serve in part to protect against some of the more radical right wing movements presently out there.

The people who voted for Brexit are dominated by right wingers who want a more anti-immigrant policy. They are the same people who have been advocating austerity in Britain with social assistance rates frozen for 5 years, even as the cost of everything goes up. Brexit now looks to harm most the people most vulnerable in the UK.

Sure purity is nice when it comes to water and milk but when it comes to everyday well-being for the most vulnerable it is worth less than a loaf of bread.

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

The West is a neoliberal project?  Not only does that evade the issue, I’m not even sure what it means

It means that the EU is no more a right wing project than the countries that formed it. In or out the same tendency is there and so is the struggle.

Now some countries have out right-winged the EU and those are the ones calling for its destruction as they believe they can go further to the right than the EU will let them. Now this right wing project can serve in part to protect against some of the more radical right wing movements presently out there.

The people who voted for Brexit are dominated by right wingers who want a more anti-immigrant policy. They are the same people who have been advocating austerity in Britain with social assistance rates frozen for 5 years, even as the cost of everything goes up. Brexit now looks to harm most the people most vulnerable in the UK.

Sure purity is nice when it comes to water and milk but when it comes to everyday well-being for the most vulnerable it is worth less than a loaf of bread.

National governments are not inherently right or left.  Moreover, national governments and their policies can be changed.  The EU is inherently free market and can’t be changed.

As for the tiresome argument that Brexit is nothing but bigoted right wingers, that ignores the 30% of Labour voters who voted for Brexit.  It ignores the whole anti-EU tradition in the Labour Party.  Were the likes ofTony Benn, Barbara Castle, Peter Shore and Michael Foot anti-immigrant bigots.  Because Enoch Powell, who was an anti-immigrant bigot, opposed the common market as they did, did that make them anti-immigrant bigots?  To claim the same with Brexit is little more than lazy and uninformed thinking.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the world is dominated by neoliberalism. even china though to a lesser extent. do you really believe that if the uk left the eu tomorrow it would not be neoliberal?

josh

I suggest you read the first paragraph of my post.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

The West is a neoliberal project?  Not only does that evade the issue, I’m not even sure what it means

It means that the EU is no more a right wing project than the countries that formed it. In or out the same tendency is there and so is the struggle.

Now some countries have out right-winged the EU and those are the ones calling for its destruction as they believe they can go further to the right than the EU will let them. Now this right wing project can serve in part to protect against some of the more radical right wing movements presently out there.

The people who voted for Brexit are dominated by right wingers who want a more anti-immigrant policy. They are the same people who have been advocating austerity in Britain with social assistance rates frozen for 5 years, even as the cost of everything goes up. Brexit now looks to harm most the people most vulnerable in the UK.

Sure purity is nice when it comes to water and milk but when it comes to everyday well-being for the most vulnerable it is worth less than a loaf of bread.

National governments are not inherently right or left.  Moreover, national governments and their policies can be changed.  The EU is inherently free market and can’t be changed.

As for the tiresome argument that Brexit is nothing but bigoted right wingers, that ignores the 30% of Labour voters who voted for Brexit.  It ignores the whole anti-EU tradition in the Labour Party.  Were the likes ofTony Benn, Barbara Castle, Peter Shore and Michael Foot anti-immigrant bigots.  Because Enoch Powell, who was an anti-immigrant bigot, opposed the common market as they did, did that make them anti-immigrant bigots?  To claim the same with Brexit is little more than lazy and uninformed thinking.

The EU cannot be changed? That's a new one. A funny one, but a new one.

The so called tiresome argument comes from who is driving it, who is in the majority in that movement.

Here is a breakdown -- dominated more than 2-1 by the right. It is not lazy to observe facts.

NDPP

"Brexit is a mess because the establishment, the City and big business doesn't want it, they love the EU, if they didn't we would be out by now." 

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1111947788634546178

 

Reforming the Unreformable: The Left, the Crisis and the EU

https://t.co/eYBsrYgLSw

"The extent to which the dream of reforming the EU from within functions as a form of defeatism, rooted in a capitalist realism that beset sections of the left in the wake of the end of the Cold War is instructive."

josh

The EU can be changed?  You’re going to nullify the Maastricht treat on your own?  The bankers and bureaucrats in Brussels who control the EU would not tolerate that.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Watch the film Labour MPs didn’t want you to see

The official online debut of the new film WitchHunt has arrived, and you can watch the entire thing in the video above.

The film has faced severe censorship, including a bomb threat which successfully canceled one preview.

It tells a story about Israel’s alliance with the global far-right that Israel’s supporters would rather you not hear.

Acclaimed British directors Mike Leigh and Peter Kosminsky have praised WitchHunt.

Leigh said it “exposes with chilling accuracy the terrifying threat that now confronts democracy.”

Kosminsky said it “packs a powerful punch” and is “telling a story we just aren’t hearing at the moment.”

Last month, left-wing member of Parliament Chris Williamson was suspended as a Labour Party member – after a long campaign by Israel lobby groups against him.

Williamson had booked a room in Parliament on behalf of the group Jewish Voice for Labour so that WitchHunt could be screened.

But it was canceled after the Labour leadership came under severe pressure by right-wing and pro-Israel Labour MPs.

Unless Williamson’s Labour suspension is reversed before the next election, the move will make it hard for him to return as an MP.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

The EU can be changed?  You’re going to nullify the Maastricht treat on your own?  The bankers and bureaucrats in Brussels who control the EU would not tolerate that.

Many changes can and do happen in the EU.

Your focus is one aspect the inability to go too much into debt. First you can be in the EU and not in the Eurozone and second not going into debt to this degree is management not ideology.

The reason countries go into debt beyond their means is that they allow spending but are afraid to tax for it. You can produce a balance if you are willing to tax to pay for what you do and still produce left of centre policies.

Arguably, the left has a greater incentive to balance the books. The right likes to have a deficit to avoid spending.

The centrist deceptive governments that won't tax what they want to spend are a different matter.

It is right wing propaganda that suggests that socialist policies are unaffordable and revenues cannot be taxed to pay for them without high deficits.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

I suggest you read the first paragraph of my post.

..and i suggest that brexit doesn't take you out from under eu control.

JKR

Some people are saying that the UK should set up a randomly selected representative citizens’ assembly to figure out how to deal with Brexit and maybe some other issues. Sounds like a great idea to me.

josh

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

The EU can be changed?  You’re going to nullify the Maastricht treat on your own?  The bankers and bureaucrats in Brussels who control the EU would not tolerate that.

Many changes can and do happen in the EU.

Your focus is one aspect the inability to go too much into debt. First you can be in the EU and not in the Eurozone and second not going into debt to this degree is management not ideology.

The reason countries go into debt beyond their means is that they allow spending but are afraid to tax for it. You can produce a balance if you are willing to tax to pay for what you do and still produce left of centre policies.

Arguably, the left has a greater incentive to balance the books. The right likes to have a deficit to avoid spending.

The centrist deceptive governments that won't tax what they want to spend are a different matter.

It is right wing propaganda that suggests that socialist policies are unaffordable and revenues cannot be taxed to pay for them without high deficits.

 

That’s not the only aspect, as I pointed out.  And you concede that the EU rules prevent Keynesian economic solutions, but defend it as a good thing.  It may or not be that, but that’s not something that democratic governments should be prevented from choosing.  They shouldn’t be straightjacketed by Brusssles.  The people of each country, through their vote in elections, should have that course available to choose.  That’s called economic democracy.

JKR

Because the UK already has its own currency and controls its own budget within the EU, doesn’t it already have the ability to implement Keynesian solutions?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

I suppose you were against Quebecers having the chance to vote in a second referendum as well.

josh wrote:

Wasn’t there a vote on this?  Remainers next move will be to convince the public that a vote never took place.

If the vote had been for Quexit we would still be arguing over the terms of separation.

Sean in Ottawa

josh wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

josh wrote:

The EU can be changed?  You’re going to nullify the Maastricht treat on your own?  The bankers and bureaucrats in Brussels who control the EU would not tolerate that.

Many changes can and do happen in the EU.

Your focus is one aspect the inability to go too much into debt. First you can be in the EU and not in the Eurozone and second not going into debt to this degree is management not ideology.

The reason countries go into debt beyond their means is that they allow spending but are afraid to tax for it. You can produce a balance if you are willing to tax to pay for what you do and still produce left of centre policies.

Arguably, the left has a greater incentive to balance the books. The right likes to have a deficit to avoid spending.

The centrist deceptive governments that won't tax what they want to spend are a different matter.

It is right wing propaganda that suggests that socialist policies are unaffordable and revenues cannot be taxed to pay for them without high deficits.

 

That’s not the only aspect, as I pointed out.  And you concede that the EU rules prevent Keynesian economic solutions, but defend it as a good thing.  It may or not be that, but that’s not something that democratic governments should be prevented from choosing.  They shouldn’t be straightjacketed by Brusssles.  The people of each country, through their vote in elections, should have that course available to choose.  That’s called economic democracy.

No I did not concede this at all. Keynsian economics does not mean running so far in the red all the time such that you cannot run a reasonable deficit in bad years. The prohibition here was deep levels of debt (not deficits in bad years) in order to protect the common currency. A common currency means that you don't give everyone unlimited credit cards backed by that currency.

We have plenty of cases where right wing governments create more debt than left ones and of left wing governments with surpluses.

You need to be unafraid to tax wealth and high incomes.

josh

That’s not the issue.  The issue is being able to respond to an economic down turn by increasing spending and cutting taxes to some extent.  That can prevent a recession turning into a depression.  And of course the larger issue is democratic governments being free to make that determination.

NDPP

'The EU Is An Empire'

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/29/the-eu-is-an-empire/

"Why the EU is a deplorable institution we must leave..."

 

"Take a look at the history of the EU. It is not pretty."

https://twitter.com/kcIdav43/status/1112006747454099456

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Theresa May faces three options. Will a customs union be the least painful?

Today, MPs will continue the ‘indicative votes’ process, aiming to narrow down the options and find a consensus on Brexit – or at least something that can win a workable majority in the Commons. The motions tabled include ‘no deal’ options, customs union membership, Common Market 2.0 and another referendum. Apparently Labour is putting forward its Brexit plan again, but submitting late so it isn’t on the order paper yet.

Hold on, I hear you ask, aren’t those all the alternatives that were voted on last time? Pretty much, but it’s expected that Speaker Bercow will knock out most by selecting only the options that won the most support in the previous round. What are the chances of each? Common Market 2.0 advocates in the Conservative Party are annoyed with their whips for organising hard against the proposal (see tweets by Nick Boles and Ed Vaizey), while the group’s Labour campaigners are “hopeful” than last week. The real focus at this point is on Ken Clarke’s customs union motion, which only lost by eight votes on Wednesday, and Kyle/Wilson’s confirmatory public vote idea.

Labour’s most hardcore ‘people’s vote’ supporters and those most strongly opposed to a soft Brexit will likely vote against a customs union again, while the SNP and Lib Dems will probably abstain again. But if MPs do give Clarke’s motion a majority when they vote at 8pm tonight, the question is whether the government would accept that softening of its deal....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

U.K. in Crisis: Facing No Deal, Parliament Votes on Brexit After Rejecting May’s Plan for Third Time

quote:

PRIYA GOPAL: I think that it is important to remember that there is a European Parliament and there are elected MEPs, members of the European Parliament. So I think it’s quite possible to overstate the extent to which there is no contribution to decisions made by the EU. And what we know is that the EU’s worst policies, its more neoliberal policies, have in fact been contributed to by Britain.

It seems clear that the EU is a neoliberal, it is a capitalist, institution. It comes with many of the problems of contemporary capitalism and its institutions. But the question on the table, I think, is: What are the options? If you want to leave the EU, which is the sort of left, so-called Lexit, or left Brexit, position, then one would do so for something that is not neoliberal and that is not capitalist and that does allow for greater democratic say. But the options that Brexit has put forward are, I’m afraid, not that. It is a question, I think, of staying within the EU and actually being able to reform it from within, or returning to Britain, where Brexit is an extremely ideologically driven, deeply neoliberal, in some ways, free market, disaster-capitalist project.

So it seems to me that there are many problems with the EU, and nobody who’s progressive can deny that there are problems with the EU. But the question is: What is the alternative? And if you leave the EU, you’re not actually doing that for greater democracy or for greater social justice; you’re actually capitulating to what is what I would definitely describe as a far-right project, both economically and socially.

NDPP

Only One Option Remains With Brexit - Prorogue Parliament and Allow Us Out Of The EU With No Deal

https://t.co/m49oFsTGM6

"The legal and democratic principles of our constitution now point to one resolution of the EU withdrawal crisis: prorogation of Parliament..."

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Only One Option Remains With Brexit - Prorogue Parliament and Allow Us Out Of The EU With No Deal

https://t.co/m49oFsTGM6

"The legal and democratic principles of our constitution now point to one resolution of the EU withdrawal crisis: prorogation of Parliament..."

Shut down Parliament for the sake of democracy!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

NDPP

The Full Brexit Network - Left Brexit Tour (and vid)

https://braveneweurope.com/the-full-brexit-the-full-brexit-network

Let's Go WTO!

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..more from post #74

quote:

AMY GOODMAN: Where does Ireland fit into this picture, Professor Gopal?

PRIYA GOPAL: Well, Ireland is a key question. The Irish border, the soft border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, was a hard-won victory for the peace process. The pressure to in fact return to a hard border, from certain sections of the Brexiteering ideologues, I think, is extremely dangerous. And there are people who have pointed out—people in the Republic of Ireland who have pointed out that any return to a hard border in that region might well presage a return to something like the troubles of 30 years ago.

It seems to me that there is a real lightness with which that border is being treated and that all the—I guess, the maneuverings around the backstop and the rejection of the backstop and the whole question of removing the soft border, I think, there’s a real dereliction of historical understanding about how that border came into place and what has actually resulted in a successful peace process. And undermining the Good Friday Agreement is, I think, one of the more deleterious effects of a hard Brexit. And that is something that we should all be worrying about.

NDPP

The View From Ireland:

Anthony Coughlan at Irexit Galway

https://youtu.be/Z5V0x1fvK5o

Supranationalism and creeping EU Federalism

 

The Govt is Misleading Us on the Border With N Ireland

https://youtu.be/jyLMEW2QGrc

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

MPs reject all options again in latest Brexit indicative votes

Reflecting the same pattern as the votes held last week, the motion for another referendum received the most votes but the motion for customs union membership had the slimmest defeat, being rejected by just three votes.

Labour whipped MPs to vote for motions (C), (D) and (E) on a customs union, Common Market 2.0 and a confirmatory public vote respectively. The party issued a recommendation to abstain on the Cherry motion for extension or revocation of Article 50, though it was technically a free vote.

Responding at the despatch box tonight, Jeremy Corbyn described the results as “disappointing”, but pointed out that Theresa May’s deal had been heavily rejected three times whereas the customs union motion was only defeated by three votes.

“The margin of defeat for one of the options tonight was very narrow indeed and the Prime Minister’s deal has been rejected by very large majorities on three occasions,” the Labour leader said. “If it is good enough for the Prime Minister to have three chances at her deal then I suggest that possibly the House should have a chance to consider again the options that we had before us today.”

josh

Anything more than a customs union would run afoul of the results of the vote, imo.

swallow swallow's picture

A customs union seems like the obvious compromise. So that won't happen.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Only One Option Remains With Brexit - Prorogue Parliament and Allow Us Out Of The EU With No Deal

https://t.co/m49oFsTGM6

"The legal and democratic principles of our constitution now point to one resolution of the EU withdrawal crisis: prorogation of Parliament..."

The irony of a Canadian leftist calling for prorogation of a parliament totally escapes you, doesn't it?

NDPP

I posted it as a legitimate point of view of the present situation And no more ironic than a Canadian leftist supporting a  neoliberal supranational anti-democracy like the EU.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The Latest: EU Brexit official welcomes May's move

The Latest on Brexit (all times local):

10:10 p.m.

The European Parliament's chief Brexit official has welcomed British Prime Minister Theresa May's move to hold talks with the opposition Labour Party as "better late than never."

Guy Verhofstadt welcomed May's move and said it was "good" she was reaching out across party lines to find a compromise to break the Brexit deadlock.

Verhofstadt has long said that effective cross-party cooperation in the House of Commons was the best, and perhaps the only way, for Britain to emerge from the crisis. 

During several legislative sessions, he exhorted British lawmakers to put party politics behind them and become their political acumen to put country before party. 

———

9:15 p.m.

British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn says he is happy to sit down with Prime Minister Theresa May to work on a Brexit deal, even though "so far she hasn't shown much sign of compromise."

The leader of the left-of-center Labour Party says "we recognize that she has made a move" and is willing to hold talks with May.

He says British people need certainty that the country will not be "crashing out" of the EU without a deal.

Corbyn says Labour will present May with its conditions for Brexit, which include a close economic relationship with the bloc, maintaining high environmental standards and protecting workers' rights.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

"I found myself there, looking around the House of Commons, seeing that the party that was least willing to compromise... was my own. I guess that was when it snapped" Former Tory MP Nick Boles on his resignation after last night's votes

JKR

josh wrote:

Anything more than a customs union would run afoul of the results of the vote, imo.

It does seem like the consensus position in the UK is for a customs union or Norway style deal. I think that would be the best outcome. I think it would also be best if that kind of arrangement was ratified by a referendum.

NDPP

Corbyn Says He's 'Very Happy' To Meet May to Hammer Out Brexit Plan, Others Not So Sure

https://on.rt.com/9rdr

"UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said he would be 'very happy' to meet Prime Minister Theresa May after she suggested the two should set down to agree on a new plan to ensure a no deal brexit is avoided. Meanwhile former British foreign secretary Brexiteer Boris Johnson also weighed in saying May's new course of action would mean key law-making powers could end up being 'handed over to Brussels."

MPs Divided Over Softer Brexit Deal

https://youtu.be/n3X-2TdW8Ag

Former UK MP George Galloway analyzes latest developments

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

May’s offer: a Tory trap or the chance to pass Labour’s Brexit plan?

In a statement last night that followed a seven-hour cabinet meeting, the Prime Minister reached out and offered to meet with Jeremy Corbyn to find a way through the Brexit impasse. Unlike most of her previous televised statements at Downing Street, this is a game-changer. The focus is now on the Labour leader: will he stop Brexit or push for Labour’s alternative deal?

The first reaction of many Labour activists has been to question whether May’s offer of compromise is genuine. They are right to be wary of someone who has helped portray Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser and a danger to national security, and who has consistently prioritised party unity over anything else. It does seem unbelievable that she would concede on customs union membership when the ability to strike independent trade deals is the main point of Brexit for many Tories.

quote:

Corbyn has accepted the offer of talks. In his immediate response, which you can read in full here, he said Labour’s five demands for Brexit would be “on the table” in the negotiations today. There was no mention of another referendum. This is a crunch moment for Labour, and the bone of contention is where the party stands on the limitations of the ‘confirmatory public vote’ plan. In the indicative votes process, the leadership has whipped for amendments pledging to put “any” deal to a public vote – including, presumably, Labour’s alternative. But Corbyn’s spokesman told journalists last week that the party only supports a referendum on a “damaging Tory Brexit”. And on Radio 4 today, Rebecca Long-Bailey suggested that the ‘indicative’ motions were merely compromises.

Theresa May would far sooner accept Labour’s deal than agree to hold another public vote, and neither she nor the Labour leadership want a long extension (though that may be inevitable at this point). Will complying with Corbyn’s five demands be enough to win a Labour whip in favour of the deal? Or will he also demand a ‘confirmatory ballot’, to satisfy the wishes of many Labour MPs despite he and key allies personally disliking the idea?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

May’s bombshell means the Little English nationalist revolution is over

quote:

Labour’s proposed Brexit deal would sign Britain up to the customs union and enter a state of “dynamic alignment” with the rules of the single market. This is not the equivalent of a Norway-style deal, because it allows Britain to participate fully in the single market – with the obligation to accept freedom of movement – but to diverge over time by paying a price in lost market access.

If May can accept this to the letter, and is prepared to whip her MPs for it, splitting the Tory party for a generation, Corbyn should consider the offer. But I doubt she will do so. Indeed, I doubt she will retain a shred of authority once the Tory grassroots and backbenches understand the scale of the climbdown she has made.

In that case, we are in for a rapid knockout competition in parliament, the result of which will likely see either the customs union or a full Norway-style deal get a majority.

But what’s crucial now is that any deal done must be put to a second referendum, with remain as the other option.

For the past two years, it has been pro-remain progressives who advocated a second referendum. Now, all possible outcomes look so far away from the fantasies sold to leave voters that they need to be given the option to decide whether remain is better.

NDPP

Both Corbyn and May are searching for a way to maintain, even deepen British-EU linkage while not appearing to sabotage the clearly expressed desire of the largest majority vote in British history to leave the anti-democratic, neoliberalist monster that is the EU. 

josh

Customs Union period, is the only thing I can see passing.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..brexit was never going to mean a clean break with the eu. it was a big fucking lie told by the tories and others of the right to weaken the uk when it came to environment and rights plus. there has never been a clean break proposal on the table. even the no deal brexit maintained economic controls by the eu. 

..while those wanting to be rid of the eu neoliberal control brexit was never the vehical that would get them there. from post #74....

where Brexit is an extremely ideologically driven, deeply neoliberal, in some ways, free market, disaster-capitalist project.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

PMQs: Ahead of Brexit head-to-head, Corbyn attacks Tory austerity

quote:

Kicking off with an acknowledgement that the Brexit talks were imminent, Corbyn welcomed May’s “willingness to compromise to resolve the Brexit deadlock”. But he swiftly moved on to domestic issues, taking up the government on its record of rising cross-generational poverty, the disastrous roll-out of Universal Credit, food bank usage up, unhappy WASPI women and even free TV licences  . It may have seemed like small fry amid the Brexit chaos, but the Labour leader intends to campaign hard on these issues at the next election. And questions over customs union membership, dynamic alignment on workers’ rights, etc, were best kept for the afternoon head-to-head.

josh
NDPP

"The Brexit pile-up in parliament is unlike anything we've witnessed in modern times. MPs are refusing to implement the biggest political mandate in British political history. The consquences could be dire.."

https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1113335336220987397

"To defend these people is not to defend representative democracy, it is to defend fraud."

 

Those advocating for the neoliberalist EU and the faux-brexit fraud of both major British political parties should give their heads a shake and encounter some reality about just what it is they're supporting...

Lexit ReLoaded With Costas Lapavitsas

https://youtu.be/8IGP7qZefGU

JKR

 

josh wrote:

Customs Union period, is the only thing I can see passing.

With or without a referendum? Many in Labour are demanding that any deal be ratified by the people through a referendum.

josh

No referendum.  

NorthReport

So, is this factual? Why can't Corbyn and the rest of the Labour PMs come to consensus?

Well, Tony Blair will be happy. 

Jeesh!

Brexit: Labour heading for bust-up as top party figures demand Jeremy Corbyn secure referendum in talks with Theresa May

Exclusive: Eleven MPs including four frontbenchers have said it is ‘untenable’ that Labour does not make a public vote a fixed demand from the prime minister

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/may-corbyn-brexit-talks-labour-demand-referendum-a8853466.html

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Labour talks with PM progress – but pressure rises over public vote

quote:

The meeting today was attended by Jeremy Corbyn, his spokesman, Keir Starmer, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Nick Brown from Labour’s side; the Prime Minister, Steve Barclay, Julian Smith, Gavin Barwell and officials from the government.

It is understood that each side has agreed to appoint a negotiating team – Labour’s will be Starmer, Long-Bailey and Brown in terms of politicians – and to hold a planning meeting tonight in parliament. Tomorrow, technical discussions will be had throughout the day.

quote:

But frontbencher Emily Thornberry has emailed all Labour MPs calling for any deal agreed to be subject to a confirmatory public vote, The New Statesman revealed today.

A letter to Corbyn and the shadow cabinet was also sent from 12 Labour MPs of the ‘Love Socialism Hate Brexit’ parliamentary group, including Corbyn supporters Clive Lewis and Kate Osamor, saying a “public vote must be our bottom line”.

UNISON voted to endorse the idea at a meeting of its national executive committee today, joining GMB and other big trade unions in their support for another referendum. Unite, arguably the closest of the unions to the Labour leader, has not backed the policy.

quote:

The Labour leader added: “I also raised the option of a public vote to prevent crashing out or leaving on a bad deal.”

josh

Love Socialism, Hate Socialism, is what that group should be called.  Because the neo-liberal EU is the antithesis of socialism.  And they’re just as confused about holding another referendum when the 2016 referendum has not been implemented.  Corbyn has already given in too much to the referendum nullifiers in his party.  

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