The demonization of China

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NDPP

"Yellow Peril as an idea is the cement that holds western civilization together..."

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267

Unionist

NDPP wrote:

"Yellow Peril as an idea is the cement that holds western civilization together..."

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267

I fixed your link, NDPP. You're welcome!

https://twitter.com/Liuyongfu2/status/1116816838267215873

 

NDPP

Thnx!

swallow swallow's picture

Paul Evans has been shilling for Asian dictatorships, including Suharto’s in Indonesia, for years. He is as establishment as they come. 

But sure, give his opinion more weight than the union representing university teachers, and call that union “sinophobic” for good measure. 

swallow swallow's picture

WWWTT wrote:

swallow wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Thanks for the link Unionist! The slogan on Ontario lisense plates "Your's to discover" is going to be changed to "Open for business" apparently (probably worth it's own thread title).

That was the rumour, but it’s not accurate. 

Really hey? I guess Queens park is a rumor to hey?

https://globalnews.ca/news/5157537/ontario-budget-licence-plate-yours-to-grow/

Yeah, the slogan (as Magoo said) will be “a place to grow,” not as claimed “open for business.” 

Unionist

swallow wrote:

Paul Evans has been shilling for Asian dictatorships, including Suharto’s in Indonesia, for years. He is as establishment as they come. 

Good to know. Is he right about the Confucius Institute, or wrong? Do you have an opinion about it, as opposed to just an opinion about Paul Evans?

Quote:

But sure, give his opinion more weight than the union representing university teachers, and call that union “sinophobic” for good measure. 

I haven't the foggiest clue what you're talking about. If you want to refer to the opinion of the union, would you mind very much taking a moment to provide me with a reference? And if I called that union "sinophobic", it must have been in a moment of delirious sleep-talking. I have no clue who that union is, never mind how much or little they fear China.

 

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

Is he right about the Confucius Institute, or wrong? Do you have an opinion about it, as opposed to just an opinion about Paul Evans?

At least in the stuff quoted in the post, Evans doesn't really provide any hard details about why we should think the Confucius Institutes are a good thing. He just states his opinion that they're run by good people, and are basically benign. Presumably we're to take his authority as an Asia-focused academic on that.

Which I may very well be prepared to do, since he obviously knows more about the Confucius Institutes than I do. However, if, as Swallow states, he had previously gone to bat for Suharto, that's gonna call into question his criteria for judging "good people". Because I do know a little bit about Suharto, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't fit my definition of "a good person".

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

I prefer my Chinese history to have high production values like these two great series. I always look to see how accurate the history is in historical drama's and these follow the recorded facts very well.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160597

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160391

 

NDPP

But CIJA's bs on 'a land without a people for a people without a land' or the Ukrainian Canadian Congress' propaganda on Holodomor is freely allowed into our school system with official blessings.

Yellow Peril...

WWWTT

Swallow wrote

Yeah, the slogan (as Magoo said) will be “a place to grow,” not as claimed “open for business.” 

Sorry for the thread drift but I’ll clarify. Personal vehicle plates will be “place to grow”.  Commercial vehicle plates will be “open for business” It’s in the link I provided. 

Probably a subject worthy it’s own thread, so I’m not discussing it here any longer. 

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

That's a truly gratuitous comment. Confucius Institute is primarily about teaching Mandarin and Chinese culture. The "critiques", as I understand them, is that they don't draw students' attention to how totalitarian the Chinese regime is.

Should we condemn the Canadian government for funding English and French instruction in our school system - without mentioning every 15 minutes that Canada is an imperialist dictatorship of the big bourgeoisie which suppresses workers, women, Indigenous people, etc.? Maybe we should. But we're not shutting down our school system till that's fixed.

That's a more appropriate comparison than your "oil industry" thought experiment.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Actually the oil industry funds math and science programs and doesn't mention the climate. Yes I agree the Chinese program seems less problematic but both are teaching useful things while ignoring other things.

Industry involvement in public education is not new. As early as the 1940s, the industry's largest and most powerful lobby group targeted K through 12 schools as a key element of its fledgling marketing strategy. By the 1960s, the American Petroleum Institute was looking to shake its reputation as a "monopoly which reaped excessive profits" and set out to cultivate a network of "thought leaders" that included educators, journalists, politicians and even clergy, according to an organizational history copyrighted by API in 1990.

...

"I was a little bit concerned the first time because I thought I was going to be influencing my kids one way or the other," Anderson says.

But she says the program is "a non-biased curriculum – it's informational."

Also, once Anderson and other teachers complete the energy education training, the board pays for field trips — as long as the destination is focused on oil.

"The kids get so excited to shout all the information they know that they've learned from all the activities," she says.

The program offers another bonus: A heavy plastic tub stuffed with $1,200 worth of supplies and lab equipment. That's prized material in one of the most cash-strapped school systems in the country.

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/11/535653913/heres-what-the-oil-industry-is-...

 

swallow swallow's picture

I’ve linked a critique above. They relate to attempted interference in class content, attempted control of class content by an agency of the Chinese government, and restrictions on the free speech and religious practices of employees. This is why the Canadian Association of University Teachers recommends that Confucius Instiutes not be welcomed into Canadian universities, and why several universities have refused them or removed them. 

No other foreign government attempts to establish permanent organizations within Canadian educational institutions, so far as I know. This is the reason Confucius institutes are singled out for criticism. 

CJIA attempts to infiltrate educational institutions are despicable and should be both condemned and resisted, too. 

Some links

https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2013/03/mcmaster-university-severs-ties-with-confucius-institute

https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2014/01/canadian-campuses-urged-to-end-ties-with-confucius-institutes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/07/24/debate-renews-over-confucius-institutes

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-school-board-votes-to-sever-ties-to-confucius-institute/article21376636/

 

WWWTT

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I think the Chinese government funding programs about its culture and history is as beign as our oil industry providing free educational material to public classrooms. It should also get the same amount of condemnation in our MSM as the oil and gas industry's propaganda. 

I prefer my Chinese history to have high production values like these two great series. I always look to see how accurate the history is in historical drama's and these follow the recorded facts very well.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160597

https://www.netflix.com/title/80160391

 

For some reason these historical movies/programs/tv series are very popular in China. Including Taiwa and Hong Kong. 

I believe Mao wouldn’t be s big fan.  I am not a fan of these film programs centred around privileged people, played by attractive actresses and actors. 

They’re more like soap operas I find. I only watch them for Chinese language listening skill enhancement. 

voice of the damned

I believe Mao wouldn’t be s big fan.

No, probably not. Mind you, I don't think he'd be a big fan of the Confucius Institutes, either. At least not under that name.

http://tinyurl.com/ydxofgbc

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

No other foreign government attempts to establish permanent organizations within Canadian educational institutions, so far as I know. This is the reason Confucius institutes are singled out for criticism.

But the article you link to does not say it is a government agency, only that it gets its funding from the government. I presume you do know that NGO's are used as Trojan horses by the West in many areas of the world in education as well as other areas.

Confucius Institutes worldwide are run by the Chinese National Office for Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language, a non-government agency affiliated with the Chinese Ministry of Education. The institute at McMaster — like the hundreds around the world that operate out of established post-secondary and secondary institutions — is staffed by instructors hired in China.

Canada provides monetary support for Ukrainian educational opportunities that seem far more political. We are arrogant enough to believe we should export our corrupt political system and its NATO imperialism. Here is a link to the Canada Ukraine Parliamentary Program, which appears to be a non-government agency affliated with the House of Commons.

A cycle of three Conferences to develop a Model Ukraine or Model for Ukraine as envisioned by the Alumni of the CUPP Program who have completed an internship in the Canadian Parliament of from one year to 3 months, have earned a graduate Degree at a Western University and who may currently be working in the West.

The First Conference will take place in Washington DC and will focus on the individual, identity, rights and responsibilities in a Model Ukraine.

The Second Conference will take place in Ottawa, Ontario on October, 2010 and will focus on the State, its electoral system, its integration into the Euro-Atlantic Community and its relations with the EU, Russia and the USA. The Third Conference will take place in Kyiv in November 2011 and will focus on combining the deliberations of the first two conferences to create a Model.

Our government does direct educational training in many NATO outposts as well. Here is the Ukrainian example.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2018/01/canadi...

Our universities in the last 20 years have developed an incestuous relationship with corporate boardrooms and that to me is far more worrisome than the Chinese using this institute for propagating propaganda. We have spent two decades allowing our boardrooms to fund institutes that have churned out thousands of brainwashed MBA students all indoctrinated in the Chicago School of Economics cult. Arguably the most destructive evil ideology ever let lose on the planet.

 

 

Unionist

The "China experts" and academics are stepping up their attacks, now coupled with demands that Canada show China who's in charge. This one is by a "Senior Fellow, Institute of Science, Society & Policy, University of Ottawa; Senior Fellow, China Institute, University of Alberta; and Distinguished Fellow, Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada." I'm impressed - how about you?

Canada must take stronger action against China to free our 'detainees'

Quote:

We call them “detainees,” and that term sounds fairly innocuous: they’re being “detained” and can’t return to their homes or jobs for an interim period. But that does not begin to capture the hell that they are now living through. They were both kidnapped suddenly, less than a day apart – Michael Kovrig off the street, and Michael Spavor at the airport. This was just days after Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou was arrested in Vancouver on a U.S. extradition warrant.

[emphasis added]

Got that? China kidnaps. Canada arrests, and then only on someone else's request. Because we're proverbially sorry. But it's time now for Canada to "man up":

Quote:

Former ambassador to China Guy Saint-Jacques has recommended that Canada “take the white gloves off” and pursue stronger measures to have our Canadians released, including: expelling Chinese athletes who are training in Canada for the 2022 Winter Olympics; restricting the movements of Chinese officials in Canada; mobilizing stronger support from the U.S. as well as our Asian allies; and making a formal protest to the UN Security Council on China’s treatment of our Canadians, including our diplomat currently on leave.

He is absolutely right. China will only listen to Canada when bigger factors are at stake. The lives of our fellow Canadians now hang in the balance.

I guess the pre-emptive bombing of mid-size Chinese cities would be part of the next escalation?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Sean in Ottawa

I think the funding of Chinese language and even much about culture by the Chinese government can be a good thing. I am very, very wary about governments funding history without safeguards to make it balanced.

I went to a University of Ottawa talk called "The Myth of the Chinese Dragon" some years ago. I was expecting something interesting regarding Chinese Dragons -- (dragon is very different in Chinese culture than European). I was very enthusiastic about a chance to hear more about Chinese culture and mythology.

Instead it was the ambassador giving a stream of government propaganda, without anything cultural at all. He did this with his political minder in the room taking notes to keep him "on track," (I was with a Chinese friend who was a visiting professor from Nanjing and very knowledgable about how this works).

The audience was almost all University students who were genuinely interested in Chinese culture and not interested in politics. They were stunned into silence.

I think the Chinese government is often incompetent in these matters. The political propaganda was counter-productive and left people more hostile to the Chinese government than they were before. A real focus on Chinese culture woudl ahve had the opposite effect.

I think there are a great deal of negative impressions about China, Chinese culture and even the quality based on issues with the "made in China" brand. (BTW China always did produce amazing quality in many areas, but due to the brand problems would be pressed by North americans to produce cheaper and cheaper for export here.)

I have long believed that China would could do more for its relationship with other countries focusing on language and culture rather than preaching politics in the clumsy way it often does. Warm feelings on language and culture would leave people more open to the political statemnts of the country than direct promotion anyway.

Where politically neutral, I am happy when any country wants to share in other countries its language and culture. Here in Ottawa there are coutnries that have done this extremely well: Japan, Korea, France, Italy among them. In the last decade, it seems that the Chinese government has been learning and is now taking opportunities to share language and culture without loading them with political propaganda. They are present in the international parts of festivals more than they were before and not trying to deliver more than a bit of goodwill and Chinese culture.

I think cultural/human connections between countries helps world peace and embrace any cultural sharing of countries devoid of propaganda and power plays. I do not get offended if the purpose is economic and political provide the content of the exchange is not.

ETA: By safeguards in the opening of this post, I do not mean provided by other countries -- but provided by professional educators free of political intervention with a focus on the culture rather than a political message the governments are trying to send. Yes, I understand, not easy to do.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sean why do you hate the idea of government driven policy so much? I liked your story about the lecture but what made you think an Ambassador for a foreign government was going to be talking about mythical creatures?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201242144540509844.html

https://gomedici.com/rise-of-chinese-dragon-an-inside-look-at-factors-af...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2018/11/26/stirring-dra...

http://www.capewineacademy.co.za/dissertations/Rise-of-the-Dragon-The-Ch...

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean why do you hate the idea of government driven policy so much? I liked your story about the lecture but what made you think an Ambassador for a foreign government was going to be talking about mythical creatures?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/04/201242144540509844.html

https://gomedici.com/rise-of-chinese-dragon-an-inside-look-at-factors-af...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2018/11/26/stirring-dra...

http://www.capewineacademy.co.za/dissertations/Rise-of-the-Dragon-The-Ch...

How the Hell could I know why I hate government driven policy when you made that up? Why don't you tell me? Since it is completely untrue, I could not produce as interesting an answer. Besides you like telling people what they are thinking and what motivations you have decided they have.

The Chinese could host discussions about culture rather than politics. They said nothing about politics in the announcement and advertised only history and culture. The person who suggested I go was himself connected to the Chinese government and he thought it was cultural as well as just about everyone there including another person that came with me. So while you criticize me for not being as wise as we all know you would have been -- every other person there was in the same position. When it came time for questions -- all were trying to get him to move to culture and history away from politics. His speaking went down badly becuase nobody there expected the topic. There may have been people interested in politics, but nobody there wanted to engage -- perhaps becuase the few who may have had an inerest were with people who were not interested. It was misadvertised. There were a number of Chinese sudents there openly upset as well. Many young Chinese people have an absolute allergy to discussing politics, One said in Chinese to my friend that they never talked politics in front of authorities ever. Another referred to him as 同志 which means "Comrade" and carries a double meaning -- one perjorative -- in the young generation.

ETA: I looked at your links and was delighted that you have a search engine that can help you find "Dragon" in a title. Congrats. How about you find some links that have the title I said it was: "the myth of the Chinese dragon" and nothing else?

WWWTT

同志 pronouced tong (rising tone or second tone) zhi (falling tone or fourth tone). Means comrade, other use is as a slang term for homosexual.  

WWWTT

The US and other western countries have been proclaiming HuaWei is a security risk. But when China detained 2 Canadians on security grounds, according to the Canadian western ICM, these two Canadians did absolutely nothing wrong and China was acting like a big suck/sore loser. 

It looks like China is going to start treating western companies the same way the west treats Chinese companies 

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-06/01/c_138108776.htm

NDPP

The US and China on Collision Course

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/06/03/pers-j03.html

"In a series of provocative actions, the United States is making clear it is prepared to fight a war to block Beijing's rise as an economic and geostrategic competitor. The 'cold war' between the US and China took a major step toward becoming a 'hot'war over the weekend at the annual Shangri-La defense summit in Singapore. The Financial Times, not known for hyperbole, wrote that the growing dispute between the US and China on trade and technology is increasing the risk of military conflict or outright war..."

NDPP

Four Uyghur Fighters Describe Dismay After Joining Anti-Assad Fight in Syria

https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1135591442682961920

"...In fact 5K Uyghurs are fighting along-side Al Qaeda in Syria - recruited in Turkey under the promise their participation would be rewarded with Al Qaeda sponsorship of Uyghur separatism..."

WWWTT

I wonder what would happen if Indigenous people’s from Canada went to Syria to fight for the promise of bringing support for their cause of independence from Canada?

Rikardo

Minister Freiland is again showing China what a chump Canada is by demanding figures from an uprising 30 years ago.  Was it she who said to arrest Meng, #2 in Huawei or was it Wilson-R ?

NDPP

"Sssshhh. Don't mention the genocide. You'll embarass us in front of China." - Canada -

https://twitter.com/TheEagleist/status/1136397268486098951

NDPP

Angry China To Hit Tourism For Billions

https://youtu.be/GGwlL3rPv_c

"After Sec State Pompeo 'smeared' China as neither open nor tolerant, China's foreign ministry responded by issuing travel warnings for Chinese residents considering US as a travel destination..."

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

WWWTT wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Indigenous people’s from Canada went to Syria to fight for the promise of bringing support for their cause of independence from Canada?

I think it is time you read "Unsettling Canada" by Arthur Manuel and Ronald Derrickson. It is the best book to get a real grasp on what indigenous activists have been fighting for, it is not independence from Canada.  UNDRIP was driven by activists like Manuel so please read his stuff to get a handle on their struggle.

NDPP

The rest of the family aren't too shabby on the topic either...

"Meanwhile in Canada Trudeau conspiring to push Trans Mountain pipelines through without making it look like Genocide!"

https://twitter.com/KanahusFreedom/status/1136853526250844160

WWWTT

kropotkin1951 wrote:

WWWTT wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Indigenous people’s from Canada went to Syria to fight for the promise of bringing support for their cause of independence from Canada?

I think it is time you read "Unsettling Canada" by Arthur Manuel and Ronald Derrickson. It is the best book to get a real grasp on what indigenous activists have been fighting for, it is not independence from Canada.  UNDRIP was driven by activists like Manuel so please read his stuff to get a handle on their struggle.

ok thanks kropotkin I’ll put it on the list. Thank you. 

I was trying to make a comparison of sorts to expose a hypocrisy. Looks like I failed. 

NorthReport
Pondering

NorthReport wrote:

Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/09/vast-protest-in-hong-kong-against-extradition-law-china

Demonizing China again!  They are just trying to be nice by enforcing the rule of law for Hong Kong citizens. 

Martin N.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Spare a moment to consider the effects of sharing your opinions in China itself. Your sanctimonious moaning about Canada as the Eeevil Empire misses the salient fact that you can moan here to your heart's content without the threat of joining a million odd Uyghers in a 're-education' camp.

You use all the benefits of Western civilisation to bemoan its perceived failure. China weaponises globalisation in order to extend its totalitarian reach and you support it.

NDPP

Nobody 'weaponises globalisation to extend its totalitarian reach,' like the West. As for the exploitation of Uyghur separatism for Western agit-prop purposes against China, we must remember similar campaigns such as Reagan's support/ funding  for mujahideen Taleban in Afghanistan, Ukrainian ultranationalism in aid of a US coup d'etat, Western jihadi proxies in Syria  or the current regime change attempts to liberate 'the oppressed people of Venezuela' [and their oil] by the Maduro 'dictatorship.' As with the Uyghurs and China, always remember there is probably another side of things you won't read about in the Globe, NYT or the Guardian.

The 18,000 Al Qaeda Uyghurs in Syria

https://www.voltairenet.org/article202535.html

"...These Uyghurs claim to be al Qaeda. They refuse to return to China (where they would be judged) and Turkey now refuses to host them. The presence of this sizeable Chinese colony disrupts the liberation plans for the region."

 

The Fight Against Terrorism, Extremism and Human Rights Protection in Xinjiang

https://www.voltairenet.org/article205709.html

"For some time, Xinjiang, under the combined influence of separatists, religious extremists and terrorists, has seen frequent incidents of terrorist attacks, which have been detrimental to the life and property of people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang and have trampled on people's dignity. In the face of these real threats, Xinjiang has taken resolute action to fight terrorism and extremism in accordance with the law, effectively curbing the frequent occurrence of terrorist activities and ensuring to the maximum extent, the rights to life and development of people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang..."

WWWTT

Pondering wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/09/vast-protest-in-hong-kong-against-extradition-law-china

Demonizing China again!  They are just trying to be nice by enforcing the rule of law for Hong Kong citizens. 

I'm going to start with a couple things I know are facts.

Chinese mainlanders 中国人, have been migrating to Hong Kong香港 in large numbers and working for lower wages to the benefit of the 1%. Hong Kongers 香港人 are super pissed off at this! 

I'm not intirely sure if they're pissed off at the corporations or the people. But I suspect they're more pissed at the mainlanders immigrating in.

This article you linked is probably 90% BS. I can't see people in Hong Kong protesting like this from what the article suggests.

WWWTT

Martin N. wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Spare a moment to consider the effects of sharing your opinions in China itself. Your sanctimonious moaning about Canada as the Eeevil Empire misses the salient fact that you can moan here to your heart's content without the threat of joining a million odd Uyghers in a 're-education' camp.

You use all the benefits of Western civilisation to bemoan its perceived failure. China weaponises globalisation in order to extend its totalitarian reach and you support it.

Pure ignorant comment! Straight back to spreading BS about communist China to prop up the imperialist western regimes.

 

Martin N.

WWWTT wrote:

Martin N. wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

And to think this is the same country that is just waiting to pay us above market rates for tar sands gunk, go figure.

Spare a moment to consider the effects of sharing your opinions in China itself. Your sanctimonious moaning about Canada as the Eeevil Empire misses the salient fact that you can moan here to your heart's content without the threat of joining a million odd Uyghers in a 're-education' camp.

You use all the benefits of Western civilisation to bemoan its perceived failure. China weaponises globalisation in order to extend its totalitarian reach and you support it.

Pure ignorant comment! Straight back to spreading BS about communist China to prop up the imperialist western regimes.

 

You must be one of those Imperialist China tools that condemn any criticism of  The Party or its insidious weaponisation of globalisation. Are you the obnoxious Chinese ambassador by chance?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Pure ignorant comment! Straight back to spreading BS about communist China to prop up the imperialist western regimes.

You may not like Martin's comment, but it's not particularly inaccurate.  You can't even post a picture of Winnie the Pooh in China without running afoul of the state.

Our PM just declared our treatment of Indigenous women to be a genocide, and Canadians are free to publicly discuss and debate this.  What happens in China if someone brings up Tiananmen Square, on this the 30th anniversary?

voice of the damned

Voltairenet wrote:

"For some time, Xinjiang, under the combined influence of separatists, religious extremists and terrorists, has seen frequent incidents of terrorist attacks

Glad to hear that armed Muslim activists can all just be dismissed as "separatists, religious extremists, and terrorists". I'll keep that in mind next time similar groups attack a western country, and someone on here tries to argue that it has to be understood as a reaction against interference and repression by imperial powers.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

They hate the Chinese for their freedoms.

WWWTT

@ Martin N and Mr Magoo 

What makes you guys think Chinese peoples are not allowed to voice their opinions? If the Chinese people’s do not voice their concerns about any random issue does not mean that they are being suppressed, it means that such an issue is probably not much of a concern for most. 

The other point is that the icm overrates overvalues freedom of speech in the west by making the false claim that freedom of speech is not allowed in some countries. But other rights such as the right to work and the right to rest is conveniently pried  right of the picture. 

NorthReport

It's estimated over 150,000 people took part

It's estimated over 150,000 people took part ( Getty Images )

WWWTT wrote:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/hong-kong-protests-incredible-pictures-show-thousands-line-the-streets-of-hong-kong-in-protest-over-a4163086.html

Pondering wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/09/vast-protest-in-hong-kong-against-extradition-law-china

Demonizing China again!  They are just trying to be nice by enforcing the rule of law for Hong Kong citizens. 

I'm going to start with a couple things I know are facts.

Chinese mainlanders 中国人, have been migrating to Hong Kong香港 in large numbers and working for lower wages to the benefit of the 1%. Hong Kongers 香港人 are super pissed off at this! 

I'm not intirely sure if they're pissed off at the corporations or the people. But I suspect they're more pissed at the mainlanders immigrating in.

This article you linked is probably 90% BS. I can't see people in Hong Kong protesting like this from what the article suggests.

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

Voltairenet wrote:

"For some time, Xinjiang, under the combined influence of separatists, religious extremists and terrorists, has seen frequent incidents of terrorist attacks

Glad to hear that armed Muslim activists can all just be dismissed as "separatists, religious extremists, and terrorists". I'll keep that in mind next time similar groups attack a western country, and someone on here tries to argue that it has to be understood as a reaction against interference and repression by imperial powers.

Why wait? Why don’t you do some research and dig up some examples?  

China is an atheist country. How about u go find some examples where atheists resorted to violence. That way you’re talking it should be easy enough. 

By the way, Muslim people’s are allowed to be in China 

WWWTT

@North Report

I’m not doubting there was a protest in Kooloon. Or how many people were there. I’m questioning the icm as to why these people were in the streets

NorthReport
NorthReport
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
What makes you guys think Chinese peoples are not allowed to voice their opinions?

The fact that the Chinese government routinely scrubs social media of any references to things they don't like people to talk about, including Tiananmen Square, or Winnie the Pooh.

Is this honestly the first you've heard of this??

Do you have a WeChat account?  Log in and call Xi a "Side Show Circus Freak" and let us know if anything comes of it.

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

Voltairenet wrote:

"For some time, Xinjiang, under the combined influence of separatists, religious extremists and terrorists, has seen frequent incidents of terrorist attacks

Glad to hear that armed Muslim activists can all just be dismissed as "separatists, religious extremists, and terrorists". I'll keep that in mind next time similar groups attack a western country, and someone on here tries to argue that it has to be understood as a reaction against interference and repression by imperial powers.

Why wait? Why don’t you do some research and dig up some examples?  

China is an atheist country. How about u go find some examples where atheists resorted to violence. That way you’re talking it should be easy enough. 

By the way, Muslim people’s are allowed to be in China 

I'm not sure what your point is. I wasn't talking about whether atheists are more or less violent than believers, or even about atheists at all.

I'm saying that when people dismiss, say, the Charlie Hebdo killers as just a bunch of wild-eyed religious fanatics, the response from many on the left is "Oh, that's such a gross oversimplification, they're obviously acting in retaliation against western attacks on their homelands and fellow Muslims." In other words, the attacks are political resistance, not religious craziness.

But when similar attacks occur in China, well, apparently no analysis beyond calling them a bunch of religious nuts, is required.

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