Okay so the British PM quit over brexit. I care less. Still surprised though that babblers find interest in a country guilty of some of the worst imperialist corporate colonialism in the history of the human species???
United Kingdom 2
Fri, 2019-05-24 20:41
#202
Fri, 2019-05-24 21:38
#203
5 Conservative leaders, Macmillan, Major, Thatcher, Cameron, and now May have bit the dust over their British superior to European's mentality. Isn't that a small achievement in itself?
How Europe became the funeral pyre for Tory leaders
Fri, 2019-05-24 21:35
#204
We need one of these for Johnson, eh!
Fri, 2019-05-24 21:30
#205
Heath? Heath? There was no PM more pro-Europe than he. He took the country into the common market.
Fri, 2019-05-24 21:38
#206
Major! John Major!
Heath? Heath? There was no PM more pro-Europe than he. He took the country into the common market.
Fri, 2019-05-24 21:59
#207
John Cleese is beautiful and hilarious!
23% trust the press in the UK
"You're John Cleese so we have to talk about comedy..." - "We ARE talking about comedy! 23% (trust in the UK media)"! Priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULfqhCNHQPA
Last, 4 years in a row!
Sun, 2019-06-09 03:28
#208
Jeremy Corbyn well on his way to winning
next election - here’s how
Mon, 2019-06-10 16:42
#209
Former Corbyn supporters are rebelling against his “leadership”
Mon, 2019-06-10 17:18
#210
Pompeo pledges to try to prevent Corbyn from becoming PM. No word if he coordinated this with the EU Guardian, the Murdoch press, or Blairites within the PLP.
Tue, 2019-06-11 02:20
#211
More...
Mike Pompeo Suggests US Could Block Jeremy Corbyn From No 10
https://twitter.com/DanielleRyan/status/1138088917406769152
"Can you imagine how ballistic the media would go it Putin had been caught in a leaked recording promising to do his 'level best' to prevent a certain candidate from becoming British PM?"
Tue, 2019-06-11 05:03
#212
The PLP were never "Corbyn supporters". They've been trying to dump him as leader since he got the job. And clearly Corbyn has done everything he possibly could to address the antisemitism canard-he doesn't have to eeveryone who is accused of antisemitism or to fully impose the IHRA "guidelines"-guidelines which essentially equate ANY public criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians to antisemitism, even though virtually no public criticism of Israel is ever grounded in prejudice against Jews-in order to do that.Former Corbyn supporters are rebelling against his “leadership”
And if the EU issue wasn't here, nicky, you'd find some other excuse to vilify Corbyn. You just hate the fact that the Labour Party is led by an actual socialist, by someone who doesn't see activists as the enemy and personal decency as a sign of weakness.
The plain and simple truth is this: none of Corbyn's opponents in the leadership race would have handled the EU issue and better or any differently-in the Labour Party, no leader ever has the power to rewrite party policy on the fly, to say "fuck what the party conference decided-I'm just going to have the policy be what I say it will be". In other words, neither Corbyn nor any other possible replacement has the power to singlehandedly center the fight for a second referendum.
And the plain and single truth is that you can't assume it would make a difference in any parliamentary vote on a second referendum FOR Corbyn or any other possible leader to whip the PLP to vote "yes" on a second referendum. Every single Labour MP who has been voting against a second referendum would keep doing so-they would all risk disciplinary action from the party to keep doing so, because they know that to change would mean they would lose their seats to the Brexit Party at the next election.
Therefore, Corbyn would not have any possible way to cause the approval of a second referendum even if there was any good reason to keep fighting for one.
And once again, there was nothing Corbyn could have done in the referendum campaign in '15 that could have changed the result, nothing he could have said or done that could singlehandedly changed a Leave victory to a Remain victory-and he clearly wanted a Remain victory on anti-xenophobia grounds. It wasn't Corbyn's fault that no effective arguments for Remain existed, and he had no intellectually honest choice but to admit that a lot of people had valid grievances with the EU and its collaboration in the Tory/Blairite abandonment of the North and Northeast of England. What would you have had the man do-tell ringing, passionate lies about that? Demand that working-class Northerners "know their place" and do what their "betters" told them to do at the polls?
Do you not see the inherent contradiction in the two parts of your argument here-your assertion that Corbyn is a singular failure as leader, on the one hand, and your insistence that Corbyn could have singlehanded won the day for Remain back in '15, but simply refused to do so?
Tue, 2019-06-11 07:26
#213
You may be right Ken, that Corbyn is so ineffectual that even his whole-hearted opposition to Leave may not have made a difference.
but at least he could have unleashed the Labour machine for Remain and that may have erased the small Leave margin.
i must say, I find it bizarre to think that, apart from Corbyn’s 20 or so acolytes in the PLP, that every other Labour MP is some kind of reactionary, Zionist, or CIA mole, as you you quaintly maintain.
Surely at least one or two of them sincerely have the best interests of the Labour Party at heart and are concerned that Corbyn is dooming the party to oblivion. Yesterday even a number of Corbyn’s closest allies in the PLP were roundly critical of his leadership on a broad range of issues - Brexit, tolerance of anti-Semitism and sexual harassment, purging those, unlike you,who do not think the sun shines out of his bum.
history will show Corbyn to be the worst leader Labour has ever had. The blind sycophany of his dwindling band of supporters does not disguise that glaring truth.
Tue, 2019-06-11 19:33
#214
You may be right Ken, that Corbyn is so ineffectual that even his whole-hearted opposition to Leave may not have made a difference.
but at least he could have unleashed the Labour machine for Remain and that may have erased the small Leave margin.
i must say, I find it bizarre to think that, apart from Corbyn’s 20 or so acolytes in the PLP, that every other Labour MP is some kind of reactionary, Zionist, or CIA mole, as you you quaintly maintain.
Surely at least one or two of them sincerely have the best interests of the Labour Party at heart and are concerned that Corbyn is dooming the party to oblivion. Yesterday even a number of Corbyn’s closest allies in the PLP were roundly critical of his leadership on a broad range of issues - Brexit, tolerance of anti-Semitism and sexual harassment, purging those, unlike you,who do not think the sun shines out of his bum.
history will show Corbyn to be the worst leader Labour has ever had. The blind sycophany of his dwindling band of supporters does not disguise that glaring truth.
The pro-Corbyn MPs are the only people in the PLP who support what the vast majority of Labour members and supporters want-a complete and permanent break with the Third Way and Blue Labour. most of the PLP were only renominated in 2017 because sitting MPs are guaranteed automatic re-selection as Labour candidates by Tony Blair's party rules. They are guaranteed re-selection even though, in the vast majority of cases, their constituency parties never wanted them as candidates, and they hold seats any Labour candidate could automatically count on winning.
Corbyn has done everything he could do to address the barely-existent issue of antisemitism in the party. It's never antisemitism to criticize what Israel does to the Palestinians, and everyone convicted of antisemitism by the party's disciplinary bodies has been expelled. What else would you have him do?
He has never shown any tolerance for sexism. None.
Corbyn made more speeches for Remain than any other Labour figure in the referendum-a fact which proves he was never a closet Leave backer. He never LEASHED the"Labour machine" on Remain-Corbyn places no restrictions on any part of the party in campaigning for Remain. He didn't block or even limit Labour politician from campaigning for Remain, or forbid Labour figures from campaigning for Remain in any part of the UK. The simple reality of the matter is that there wasn't anything anyone COULD have said which would have turned any Leave-leaning voters, especially in the North or Northeast of England where voting Leave became the only means voters had of voting against the way the Thatcherites, the Blairites and the EU had left every depressed community in the region to rot.
In the face of that depth of feeling, in the face of the fact that no one at all in the Remain campaign had had any impact with that group of voters, what could anybody have said or done that would have made any real difference? None of the other 2015 Labour leadership candidates made any effective difference in the referendum outcome, and neither did Owen Smith, the Pfizer lobbyist who challenged Corbyn from the Blairite far right in 2016,
Why can you not accept that the Leave victory simply could not have been prevented? And that Corbyn was not responsible for the fact that the overall Remain campaign, run mainly by the Tories and the Blairites, was incompetent.
And it is not in the party's best interest to replace Corbyn with anyone the PLP would accept, because the vast majority of the PLP has made it clear they will accept nothing other than a permanent Blairite restoration-a result which would drive all non-millionaires and everybody under 40 away from the party for good. The anti-Corbynites don't care about the poor-only those who are anti-austerity do. They don't care anout the NHS-only those who are against all the part-privatizations of the NHS do. They don't care about the young and the future-if they did they would oppose war and fight for green values.
And if they cared about winning the next election, they wouldn't keep trying to bring down their own leader and replace him with a bland, passionless soundbite machine in an Armani suit who will guarantee that neither Blair nor any of the rest go on trial for war crimes-which is still what matters to the majority of the PLP more than anything else.
And you've got me wrong: I don't worship Corbyn. I just don't want the changes in the last four years in the party erased and the dead old days brought back.
Tue, 2019-06-11 19:57
#215
And you've got me wrong: I don't worship Corbyn. I just don't want the changes in the last four years in the party erased and the dead old days brought back.
nicky knows that perfectly well. He is a disingenuous asshole, who is ashamed to own up to his neoliberal beliefs, thus attacks lefties on personal grounds. A sad case.
Wed, 2019-06-12 00:00
#216
And you've got me wrong: I don't worship Corbyn. I just don't want the changes in the last four years in the party erased and the dead old days brought back.
nicky knows that perfectly well. He is a disingenuous asshole, who is ashamed to own up to his neoliberal beliefs, thus attacks lefties on personal grounds. A sad case.
And, of course, there is still the contradiction he has never been able to explain or justify in his opinions on Corbyn and Mulcair-the fact that he regards a leader put under perpetual, unjustified, and savage public attack by his own MPs, yet who led his party to large unexpected gains and deprived the government his party opposes of a majority as the worst leader in that party's history-yet insists that a leader who led his party to a disastrous. humiliating collapse, taking it from second place down to third place;who then spent over a year hanging on indefinitely as interim leader after being decisively voted out by his party at it's national convention, in so doing making it impossible for anyone who could possibly have succeeded that leader to have any real chance of pulling the party back together and getting it into competitive shape before the next election; who, years after finally doing the decent thing and accepting that he HAD to actually stand down from the leadership he was no longer entitled by any standard to cling to; who can be held directly responsible for the NDP's devastating loss in the Nanaimo-Ladysmith byelection due to his indefensible refusal to accept as a possible NDP candidate a man whose father was a giant of NDP politics and who himself was guilty of no other crimes but public empathy for the people of Palestine and asking his father's party to stand up for his father when he was unjustifiably put under arrest by the IDF for riding on the Mavi Marmara in its voyage to bring humanitarian aid to Gaza-is a figure who would, somehow(to paraphrase nicky's phrase, since I can't recall it precisely)be standing astride politics "like a Colussus" were he still in the job his party wisely and solidly voted him out of.
I've repeatedly asked how he can hold these two figures to such wildly disparate standards. Nicky has repeatedly refused to explain this in the slightest, responding only with derision and personal abuse.
I sometimes wonder if Nicky IS Tom Mulcair; when you get right down to it, that would explain a lot.
Wed, 2019-06-12 10:49
#217
Exactly!
As those current polls showing Labour with a lead are meaningless as the Conservatives are leaderless.
Ignore Boris Johnson’s bluster about Brexit. He wants a general election
He knows a better Brexit deal isn’t possible, and that no deal could be blocked. He’s playing a different game entirely
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/12/boris-johnson-brexit-general-election
Wed, 2019-06-12 11:39
#218
Galloway: Pompeo Declares War (Again). This Time on Her Majesty's Opposition
"...Yet as the president plighted his troth before the Queen in Buckingham Palace last week his secretary of state Mike Pompeo was secretly pledging to US 'Jewish leaders' that he planned actions to stop the leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition Jeremy Corbyn MP ever coming to power. A blatant, brazen and wholly illegal intention to subvert British democracy. It doesn't get much bigger than that.
The recording leaked to Washington Post shows that this declaration of war against the British Labour Party was received with prolonged and strong applause. The Labour Party's response was [too] mild indeed...and it would appear the United States - simply refused to accept Mr Corbyn's YES for an answer.
But ironically the most offensive thing about Pompeo's secret speech is the cynical weaponization of Britain's Jewish community to defeat the Labour Party. Nothing could be more hazardous for a religious minority of just 250,000 than that. In fact you could say it is anti-Semitic to try it." *
* Beware also Canada should your own politicians ever stray from their present path of unequivocal support 'for the Zionist movement in the Land of Israel.'
'I came here to thank you for your support for Israel. Canada supports us also because of you and their relations with you and because of your ability to make the case for the Zionist movement in the Land of Israel.' - President of Israel, Reuven Rivlin: A Special Message to Toronto's Jewish Community, April 2, 2019
Wed, 2019-06-12 13:28
#219
Wed, 2019-06-12 13:40
#220
The political dysfunction in the UK seems to know no bounds. They May have to finally give up their fantasies of Empire.
Thu, 2019-06-13 14:15
#221
Jonathan Pie: The Race to Number 10
Fri, 2019-06-14 08:03
#222
No Ken, I am not TOM Mulcair. My real name is Cassandra.
it is interesting how you and your fellow ostriches constantly deflect any focus on Corbyn’s insuperable faults by yelling “TOM MULCAIR” , as if that justifies your myopia.
you bray that Mulcair lost 1/3 of the NDP support and therefore it was inconceivable he should continue as leader.
You neglect the uncomfortable fact that he compared well with where Corbyn now stands. If you applied the same yardstick you would be calling for Corbyn to step down.
Consider:
1. Under Corbyn Labour lost 2/3 of the vote in the EU election that it received in 2017
2. It lost half its vote in the recent local elections
3. It lost 70% of its raw vote, and 1/3 of its percentage vote in the Peterborough by-election.
4. Corbyn’s approval was recently -58/ + 17%. When Mulcair stepped down from the leadership he had roughly a 3 to 2 positive approval ratinh.
5. Incidentally, today YouGov poll has Brexit 26%, Lib Dem 22%, Lab 18%, Con 17%, Green 8%.
just another inconvenient fact for you to ignore.
Fri, 2019-06-14 10:17
#223
USAGate: Election Meddling w Sec Pompeo
https://twitter.com/Katya_Compass/status/1139456100309327872
"It could be that Mr Corbyn manages to run the gauntlet and get elected. It's possible. You should know we won't wait for him to do those things to begin to push back.' How do Brits feel about USA running the UK? No, not Russia, but the USA..."
Fri, 2019-06-14 17:12
#224
Fri, 2019-06-14 20:45
#225
No Ken, I am not TOM Mulcair. My real name is Cassandra.
it is interesting how you and your fellow ostriches constantly deflect any focus on Corbyn’s insuperable faults by yelling “TOM MULCAIR” , as if that justifies your myopia.
you bray that Mulcair lost 1/3 of the NDP support and therefore it was inconceivable he should continue as leader.
You neglect the uncomfortable fact that he compared well with where Corbyn now stands. If you applied the same yardstick you would be calling for Corbyn to step down.
Consider:
1. Under Corbyn Labour lost 2/3 of the vote in the EU election that it received in 2017
2. It lost half its vote in the recent local elections
3. It lost 70% of its raw vote, and 1/3 of its percentage vote in the Peterborough by-election.
4. Corbyn’s approval was recently -58/ + 17%. When Mulcair stepped down from the leadership he had roughly a 3 to 2 positive approval ratinh.
5. Incidentally, today YouGov poll has Brexit 26%, Lib Dem 22%, Lab 18%, Con 17%, Green 8%.
just another inconvenient fact for you to ignore.
You're not the person who also posts here as "Cassandra", are you? Look I don't actually want to know you are or anything weird like that-it's just that you keep saying that is people know what you do on the Left that is so supposedly amazing we would all defer to your view that Labour has to have a non-Left leader(you're not just against Corbyn, you're against anyone who breaks with the establishment consensus on the Israel-Palestine issue, you are obviously anti-worker, and I have no reason to think you would have opposed the Iraq or Afghanistan conflicts or any of the other Anti-Muslim wars the west is involved in in Sudan, Yemen, and Libya(with an attempt to bomb Iran and restore the Pahlevis to the throne almost certainly being next).
I mentioned Tom Mulcair because you have been unquestioningly loyal to that person, have insisted he should never have had to stand down as leader, that he was somehow a BETTER leader than Corbyn even after dragging the party down to third place in 2015, in an election where the NDP should have at least been able to count on coming close to holding its ground.
You recently made the absurd statement that Mulcair would be towering like a Colussus over all the other party leaders if he was still in the leadership-even though, once you've dragged a party down from second to third place, nobody is ever going to take that person seriously as a leader again and even though it's impossible for someone who has done that ever to lead their party to any sort of a comeback in the next election.
Can you understand that people find it puzzline that Corbyn, the first decent human being to lead Labour since the Eighties, has received your derision from the start-who, by the way, would you have PREFERRED to have won the leadership contest in 2015?-while you revere Mulcair.
That's why I brought it up.
Fri, 2019-06-14 20:57
#226
And Corbyn doesn't have "insuperable faults". He's great at Prime Minister's questions, speaks well, brought people into politics that nobody else would ever have touched, has core values and things he will fight for-something that can't ever be said for any Labour politics.
He's done nothing to deserve being called an appeaser of bigotry. He's done nothing to deserve being accused of supporting terrorism. He's done nothing to deserve having his MPs essentially campaign against the party during elections.
Why couldn't the anti-Corbynites just stop acting like it was their party and not his? Why couldn't they stop acting like his victory in the leadership contest somehow didn't count(he had almost 50% among Labour supporters on the first preference and it goes without saying he'd have gone well over that mark with them when second and third preferences were added, had it been a contest decided only by Labour members)
Why couldn't they just accept that 2015 was vote to reject the idea that the party HAD to run by its right wing as a personal fiefdom and that the public wanted Labour to make a clear and absolute break with anything connected with the Third Way?
And why couldn't they just get the hell out of the way and let full internal party democracy be restored?
If they had, Corbyn might have gone.
As it is, I could propose this-Corbyn stands down, in exchange for establishing a requirement that MPs face an actual re-selection process before each general election, and that no one ever be guaranteed automatic re-selection. It's not asking too much for the MPs to accept that they SHOULD be full accountable to the constituency parties and that they owe the constituency parties SOMETHING, some level of respect, in exchange for the work the constituency parties do to elect and re-elect those people.
Sat, 2019-06-15 23:10
#227
Consider:1. Under Corbyn Labour lost 2/3 of the vote in the EU election that it received in 2017
2. It lost half its vote in the recent local elections
Here's a list of things the NDP accomplished under Mulcair's tenure as NDP leader:
Rachel Notley leads the NDP to an upset victory in Alberta
Provincial NDP sections in BC and Ontario badly underperform despite high potential going into their elections
NDP loses municipal elections in Toronto and Winnipeg that were theirs to win
NDP trounced to historic low seat count in Manitoba election
NDP leader in Saskatchewan loses his seat in a general election
NDP in Nova Scotia fails to gain back any significant ground lost in the 2013 election after a humiliating 3rd place finish that cost the Premier his seat
NDP loses Trinity-Spadina seat in a by-election
NDP in New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island lose third party status as the Greens break through in each province, thus taking away the mantle of anti-establishment party at the NDP's expense
Pretty impressive list of gains that the NDP across the country made under Mulcair, wouldn't you say?
Sun, 2019-06-16 08:25
#228
So by what Aristotelian logic do Mulcair’s shortcomings justify Corbyn’ destruction of Labour’s electoral prospects?
Sun, 2019-06-23 20:13
#229
So by what Aristotelian logic do Mulcair’s shortcomings justify Corbyn’ destruction of Labour’s electoral prospects?
Corbyn hasn't destroyed anything. It's the endless, unjustified attacks from his own MPs that have done damage. And the relentless corporate media hate campaign.
And it's the Blairite-originated obsession with putting the pointless fight against Brexit above all else that has done damage. Corbyn can't DO what they demand-he can't change Labour policy as decided in conference all by himself-no Labour leader can ever do that or ever has done that in the past. And even if he could, you're never going to get enough Labour Leave MPs to go against their own convictions and vote for a second referendum to get it through parliament. And since no progressive good, let alone social democratic or socialist good, would come of staying under the permanently unchangeable EU budgetary rules, which require balanced budgets without raising taxes on the rich, there's no Labour case FOR fighting for that.
If it had just been accepted that Soft Brexit-which keeps the only decent feature of the EU, the immigration/customs union-was the best that could be done, Labour would still be at the poll ratings it was getting last year, which were the best showings Labour could have been receiving under any of the 2015 0r 2016 leadership candidates. There was never any justification for anyone other than antisocialists to join the stop-Brexit frenzy, and no reason think a Labour government could do anything recognizable Labour within the EU. And had Soft Brexit been accepted by all sectors of Labour as the best achievable option, Nigel Farage would be politically extinct.
Mon, 2019-06-17 09:54
#230
"It's Tom Watson or it's Jeremy Corbyn it's as simple as that. Watson has declared open war on democracy, on 17.4 million Brexit voters and even on his own party's manifesto pledge and its tortuous line thereafter. It's decision time for Corbyn and for Labour."
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1140562246407467008
Mon, 2019-06-17 09:58
#231
Tue, 2019-06-18 14:19
#232
Here's Tom Watson, the uber-Blairite instigator of the People's Vote scam, admitting that Labour could well LOSE ground if it centered the unwinnable fight for a second referendum...
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/06/17/video-watson-found-out-by-kuenssberg-pu...
More evidence that the Blairites who started the second referendum push were and are motived mainly by the desire to keep Corbyn from becoming prime minister.
Tue, 2019-06-18 15:54
#233
I think support for a “people’s vote” was caused mostly by how Brexit has been bungled so badly by the UK’s political establishment including Labour.
Wed, 2019-06-19 06:52
#234
Let’s hope TOM WATSON and his similarly minded colleagues can rescue Labour from the malaise which has engulfed it under Corbyn.
Wed, 2019-06-19 18:13
#235
Let’s hope TOM WATSON and his similarly minded colleagues can rescue Labour from the malaise which has engulfed it under Corbyn.
As leader, Watson would expel every Corbyn supporter and lower the party to Blair's essentially Tory policies. Nobody would think there was any reason to try to elect Labour with Watson as leader.
And Watson is despised by the vast majority of the Labour rank-and-file for the unending sabotage campaign he has waged against Corbyn, even after his election as deputy leader-a post in which he should have felt obligated to fully support the leader and work all out to unify Labour for his victory.
Not only would nobody celebrate a Labour victory with Watson as leader, nobody would notice it. There's no meaningful difference between the Tory right and the Blarites. Anyone who is against renationalizing rail, water and the postal system, ok with the continuing slow privatization of the NHS, was fine with abstaning on May's cuts when abstaning on those cuts was no different than making an official declaration that you do not care about the condition of the poor, fine with the continued restrictions on internal party democracy, and fine with guaranteeing every Labour MP automatic re-selection, including the 160 Labour MPs who still support Blairism and have been engaged in a continuous guerrilla war against the party's democratically chosen leader and against the policies the vast majority of the Labour rank and file support, and still defends the Iraq War, that person cannot possibly do anything Labour if that person ever gains power. There's no way to do social democracy on an balanced(i.e. permanent austerity) budget, no way for a Labour government to act as an independent country if it stays in the reactionary and imperialist "special relationship" with the U.S.
If you've accepted right-wing policy on all of that(as Watson did), there aren't any other issues not covered under the above on which any even mildly progressive policies are possible.
The fight for reproductive choice has been won in the UK.
The fight for LGBTQ rights has largely been won there and the Tories, for that matter, support LGBTQ rights.
Watson is fighting for Labour to stand for nothing again.
And in the clip I posted, he ADMITTED that Labour wouldn't gain any votes if it centered the unwinnable fight for a second referendum.
Why is that fight unwinnable? I'll tell you:
Every Labour MP that is voting against the second referendum now will ALWAYS vote against the second referendum. There's nothign Corbyn or any other leader could say to those MPs to get them to change their minds, because there is no possible way to do anything to improve economic conditions in the North and Northeast of England while the UK stays in the EU. They will defy the whip if the whip is imposed.
Why can you not accept that Soft Brexit is the best possible outcome and that it's pointless to fight for the antisocialist goal of Remain?
Wed, 2019-06-19 19:12
#236
Ken, it is painful to watch you reply in the most earnest and sincere terms to nicky's shitty trolls again and again and again. He is not listening to you, he is laughing at you. Post replies to people who deserve your time and attention, not this self-important jerk.
Thu, 2019-06-20 14:56
#237
It's Boris Johnson vs. Jeremy Hunt for the Conservative party leadership and Prime Ministership, and the ultimate booby prize of trying to deliver a better Brexit deal than Theresa May could negotiate.
Thu, 2019-06-20 15:30
#238
Ken, it is painful to watch you reply in the most earnest and sincere terms to nicky's shitty trolls again and again and again. He is not listening to you, he is laughing at you. Post replies to people who deserve your time and attention, not this self-important jerk.
I hear what you are saying. Believe me, I'm not responding out of any belief that I can get through to that arrogant, reactionary jerk-I'm fully aware that nicky, whatever gender nicky is, is acting out of nothing but toxic malice.
My intended audience is other people who might be reading. If I leave nicky's right-wing screeds unchallenged, it could look like I'm admitting that nicky is right.
I will consider what you are saying, though.
It is puzzling, though that a poster in Canada would devote such a seemingly endless amount of time sneering at a political leader in the UK, or such a pointless obsession with the choice the UK makes about whether or not it stays in the European Union. It's hard to dismiss that as simply trolling for trolling's sake.
Fri, 2019-06-21 07:38
#239
Wow, I have been away from Babble for a couple days and have returned to a wall of personal invective from a horde of Corbyn apologists. Well, two of them at any rate.
I think the strongest thing I have called any of them is “ostriches”, yet my mild rebukes have been reciprocated with profanities.
As well as outright misstatements. I am repeatedly accused of promoting right wing causes such as the genocide of Palestinians, or war- mongering, or wanting to impoverish the working class, etc. I ask myself , is that me they’re talking about? Where have I advocated that?
My sin seems to be that I think both Brexit and Corbyn are bad ideas.
Well, opposing Brexit is scarcely right wing. 75% ofLabour voters and a greater percentage of Labour MPs oppose it. Of course that is dismissed because they are all Blairites or Zionists or reactionaries or worse. It does not seem to dawn on theostriches that Brexit itself is a right wing chauvinistic policy favoured by execrables like Farage and Johnson. The ostriches are happy to ally themselves with this ilk.
My other sin is doubting the saintliness of JeremyCorbyn. In doing so I position myself with the vast majority of Labour voters and huge numbers of sincere left wingers. They recognize that Corbynis the most unpopular leader in Britishpolling history. Even the woeful There’s May consistently polled better.
And of course it is not just polls that the ostriches ignore, but the EU elections,local elections and by-elections in which Labourhas lost up to TWO THIRDS of its vote.
But of course Corbyn’s unprecedented unpopularity has nothing to do with these results.
I would like to see a Labour government in Britain and recognize, as do innumerable others, that Corbyn is the chief impediment to this. It seems that the ostriches would prefer a right wing government with Labour as a purified unelectable self-righteous little sect that only preaches to the choir.
As for Michael’s congratulations of Ken’s voluminous posts, he neglects to recognize that Ken simply repeats (perhaps even cuts and pastes) the same blatherover and over. Like:
its all a Blairite plot
th3 Zionists are to blane
Tom Mulcair is bad
and “Nooneunder40 would ever vote Labour again “ if Corbyn is replaced.
Really???
the ostriches have achieved a physiological impossibility - burying their heads in the sand while at the same time whistling past the graveyard.
meanwhile, here is some rare positive news for Labour:
https://labourlist.org/2019/06/almost-300-local-labour-parties-set-to-debate-anti-brexit-motion/
Fri, 2019-06-21 09:58
#240
My sin seems to be that I think both Brexit and Corbyn are bad ideas.
Well, opposing Brexit is scarcely right wing. 75% ofLabour voters and a greater percentage of Labour MPs oppose it. Of course that is dismissed because they are all Blairites or Zionists or reactionaries or worse. It does not seem to dawn on theostriches that Brexit itself is a right wing chauvinistic policy favoured by execrables like Farage and Johnson. The ostriches are happy to ally themselves with this ilk.
Unless you think the Liberals are going to make a miraculous return from a century of political oblivion, then if you don't like Corbyn, Farage or Johnson your only realistic alternative now is Jeremy Hunt. To his credit he was a remainer in 2015. So is that where you end up?
Fri, 2019-06-21 10:29
#241
.
Fri, 2019-06-21 10:28
#242
Another potential recall situation
Fri, 2019-06-21 11:26
#243
Robbie, Corbyn is driving huge numbers of Labour voters in the hands of the Liberals ( who may well be ahead of Labour now, ) or the Greens.
so the Libs are a distinct alternative unless Labour can extricate itself from the Corbyn nightmare.
Fri, 2019-06-21 12:21
#244
Pogo
Wow, I have been away from Babble for a couple days and have returned to a wall of personal invective from a horde of Corbyn apologists. Well, two of them at any rate.
Does "horde of Corbyn apologists" count as personal invective?
Fri, 2019-06-21 16:15
#245
Well Pogo, you might be right it is worse to be called a "Corbyn apologist", than a "shitty troll", an "arrogant, reactionary jerk" or a "self-important jerk", as I have been called in immediately preceding posts.
Fri, 2019-06-21 16:51
#246
Sat, 2019-06-22 15:06
#247
Craig Murray: The Broader View Reveals The Ugliest of Prospects
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/06/the-broader-view-reveals...
"...Something else which revealed the way the political world now operates, and which again did not get nearly the media attention it deserves was Matt Kennard's stunning revelation of the way the Guardian has been taken over by the security services. I have been explaining for years that the Guardian has become the security services' news outlet of choice, and it is very helpful to have documentation to prove it...The abuse of power is naked and the propaganda is revealed by the lightest effort to brush away the veneer of democracy..."
No wonder the Guardian is so popular here and its propaganda preferred.
Sat, 2019-06-22 16:09
#248
Well Pogo, you might be right it is worse to be called a "Corbyn apologist", than a "shitty troll", an "arrogant, reactionary jerk" or a "self-important jerk", as I have been called in immediately preceding posts.
You've been called those things because your discourse has always been nastier than anyone else's in this discussion. You've acted from the start as though there was nothing to discuss, that it went without saying that Corbyn HAD to be removed, and that nobody could possibly have a legitimate reason to disagree with your views on the matter.
If you present as arrogant, you can expect the arrogance to be called out.
Nobody else here acts as if they are infallible-why do you act as if you are?
Why do you act as if the rest of us should simply defer to you?
Unless you've personlly turned water into wine, you have no claim to intrinsic superiority or anything.
Sun, 2019-06-23 11:52
#249
Sun, 2019-06-23 20:17
#250
I'm a bit surprised that none of the CUK MPs have been subject to the recall yet. All the former Labour CUKs hold seats where ANY Labour candidate, from any part of the spectrum, would have been elected, and it should be easy to get 10,000 signatures to force any of them to fight a by-election.
Sun, 2019-06-23 20:22
#251
It may well be "The Short Reign of Boris The Brief":
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-could-be-prime-minister-...