The demonization of China

Yes, that is my opinion.

Im not trying to limit voices, I’m trying to limit outright lies. A million people protesting extradition legislation are only saying that because they’re secretly protesting mainlanders? 

Magoo’s a provocateur, no question. But like him or not, he’s not posting things that are demonstrably false.

ETA: No one on this board is immune to being challenged. None of us are. I get that you don’t like this, but when WWWTT makes an outrageous claim, it’s going to get challenged. 

I wouldn’t go that far. I also pointed out much earlier in this thread that it wasn’t a serious accusation - although his reaction and posting since hasn’t done anything to dispel the idea. 

'The Chinese Are Coming': US Attempts to Turn the Phillippines Against Its Beijing Ally

https://on.rt.com/9w62

"...The potential for a conflict in this part of the world appears to increase on a daily basis. Just last week, a Russian warship and a US warship came extremely close to colliding with each other with both sides disputing which part of the sea, the incident took place in (whether the Phillippine Sea as the US suggested or the southeast of the East China Sea as Russia claimed, I think you should be starting to get the point by now).

While the Phillippines will want to maintain a balance between the US and China which does not involve putting its territory at the heart of open conflict, another point worth noting is how the Phillippines has been pursuing stronger ties with an unlikely Washington ally, who [has very enthusiastically pursued back, and] undoubtedly has separate motives of its own; Israel. According to The Diplomat, Israel and the Phillippines seem set to move forward with joint counter-terrorism efforts, all the while the Phillippines places large orders for a range of military equipment from Israeli firms.  The Phillippines is also happy to learn directly from the Israelis as to effective counter-terrorism efforts by receiving direct training.

At the same time, the US and the Phillippines have also also reportedly collaborated to lauch a three-year program to fight home-grown [and  jihadi proxies imported by guess who] isis-inspired extremism in the Phillippines. Because at the end of the day, the US will always have the threat of terrorism to keep the Phillippines in line. In this context China may just not be able to compete with America's wide-ranging ability to bomb 'Islamic militants' right across the globe."

NDPP wrote:

John Pilger: The Coming War on China

https://youtu.be/QXFProJC5FY

As anyone with eyes open can observe the cheering squad that always  helps warm us up for coming imperial ventures  has been called and answered the imperial dogwhistle under various guises and humanitarian subterfuges and the barking, snarling and snapping has already begun...

Is it difficult to hear the "Imperial dog whistle" whilst hiding under one's bed?

"More swords are required to maintain the peace than to wage war."

NDPP, do you really believe that if one lays supine, the Chinese inclination is toward tummy rubs?

How would Hong Kong have the ability to “contain” mainland China? What would that even look like?

As discussed in one of the earlier Meng threads, extradition is a political decision, no matter how much politicians like to pretend it's a hands-off process they can't touch. If a court rules the request valid, the decision will land on David Lametti's desk. He remembers how he got his job, so I'm guessing a whisper in his ear from the PMO will not go ignored.

In the real world Trump will probably tell Trudeau how it will all shake down at their upcoming meeting prior to the G20

American Govt, NGOs Fuel and Fund Hong Kong Anti-Extradition Protests

https://www.mintpressnews.com/hong-kong-protests/259202

"The protest's messaging and the groups associated with it, however, raise a number of questions about just how organic the movement is. Some of the groups involved receive significant funding from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), a CIA soft-power cutout that has played a significant role in innumerable US regime-change operations..."

Giving the US government credit for protests in Hong Kong is anti-Chinese racism. 

Hong Kong Protesters Cause Havoc in Parliament

https://youtu.be/xwl1FdL-yUQ

Protesters Leave Path of Destruction in Hong Kong

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2019/07/02/hong-kong-protests-legislati...

Judging by the prominently displayed ensign some protesters wish a return to British colonial rule. Safe bet many more don't. This thing smells a bit fishy to me.

165,000 Hong Kong Residents Rally In Support of Rule of Law & Public Order

http://newsvideo.su/video/10972261

No government in the word would permit this to continue. Very reminiscent of a developing Maidan situation. Any American state department/ neocon types handing out cookies yet?

China Slams Donald Trump's 'Gross Interference' After Comment on Hong Kong Protesters Storming Legislature

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/china-slams-donald-trumps-gross-in...

"We are unwavering in our determination to oppose foreign interference..."

NDPP wrote:

#FreeHongKong

https://twitter.com/MMonarchies/status/1145429380451188738

"22 years of illegal, totalitarian occupation must come to an end. Hong Kong must be returned to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. It will always belong to the Crown and Empire, not the communist invaders. Rule Britannia. Death to the communist prc scum..."

I'm not sure how seriously you should be taking that account. The guy's agenda seems to be praising anyone and everyone in history who was a monarch. He also seems to agree with you on opposing US imperialism, but I would assume only because the US had the audacity to remove George III...

First poll, lads. Please vote and retweet for a larger sample size. Is the United States, with its aggressive democratization and globalization, responsible for the vast majority of problems in the world?

March of the Uyghurs: Again, the West Tries to Destroy China Using Religion and Terror

https://off-guardian.org/2019/07/23/march-of-the-uyghurs/

"...The frontal Western attack against China and its actions in Xingjian began in 2018. Propaganda salvos were fired long before, but the 'semi-official' beginning of the ideological combat came in August 2018, when Reuters published a story with the title 'UN Says It Has Credible Reports - China Holds Million Uighurs in Secret Camps.' It went like this..."

Off Guardian wrote:

Important note: The Uyghurs have managed to create a very old and deep culture. Most of them are good, law-abiding citizens of the PRC. Also the great majority of followers of Sunni Islam are peaceful people. 

TL/DR: Hey, some of my best friends are Uyghurs! 

And then of course, the article goes on repeatedly to use the word "Uyghur" in an undifferentiated fashion, to mean very bad people...

UYGHURS ARE INCOURAGED TO MURDER, AND THEY ARE TRAINED AND HARDENED IN SYRIA

And then stuff like this... 

On top of it, most of the Indonesian Muslims are practicing the increasingly intolerant, radical Sunni Wahhabi Islam, with roots in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism was developed with the substantial help of the British imperialists).

Okay, so I guess we've found at least one country where the left thinks it's okay to say that the majority of Muslims are intolerant radicals.

And to sum it all up... 

MARCH OF UYGHURS HAS TO BE STOPPED

Try to imagine what you'd think about an article that started off saying that it was only criticizing extremist elements in the black community, and then dived into headlines like MARCH OF BLACKS MUST BE STOPPED. 

NDPP wrote:

You'd have to ask China. However, the assumption that most Uyghurs seek independence from China, let alone wish to fight for Western geopolitical interests as  jihadi proxies, is unfounded. Rightly or wrongly, secessionists are generally discouraged and suppressed  by nation-states everywhere including our own settler-state  Canada.

You are very selective in your sense of fairness. If the Uyghurs mostly don't want independence, why doesn't the Chinese government hold a referendum and settle the matter? Could it possibly be that they are outrageously authoritarian and anti-democratic?

I agree with your criticisms of the Clarity Act, and also of Canada's attitude to first nations here, and other nations which are the target of U.S. aggression, Unionist. As you know, my beliefs are in the area of libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. I would get rid of all authoritarian structures if I had my way. However, 2 referendums were held, and I hope would have been honoured if the Oui had won.

Pardon me for being sloppy in my language. I was mainly trying to point out that regardless of how bad our government's positions are, most babblers seem to believe in self-determination for self-identified national groups, but some of us are willing to make an exception in the case of China. To me, this seems quite hypocritical, but that is just my opinion.

Michael Moriarity wrote:

I agree with your criticisms of the Clarity Act, and also of Canada's attitude to first nations here, and other nations which are the target of U.S. aggression, Unionist. As you know, my beliefs are in the area of libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. I would get rid of all authoritarian structures if I had my way. However, 2 referendums were held, and I hope would have been honoured if the Oui had won.

Pardon me for being sloppy in my language. I was mainly trying to point out that regardless of how bad our government's positions are, most babblers seem to believe in self-determination for self-identified national groups, but some of us are willing to make an exception in the case of China. To me, this seems quite hypocritical, but that is just my opinion.

I agree with most of your posts however I agree with Unionist that as Canadians we have no moral authority to lecture China on its treatment of minority groups that include some self-determination advocates, particularly given the difference in milieu's that those movements operate under.

When it comes to "self-determination" movements is my opinion there are various kinds. There is the Quebec kind that had two referendums but only after a period of home grown violence that almost every Canadian abhorred. For some of us the only thing worse than the killing of a hostage was the iron-fisted response of invoking of the War Measures Act and the subsequent illegal and immoral arrests of thousands of people across the country especially among the Quebec citizens who were advocating for a peaceful separation. They also include the kind of armed standoffs in Gustafsen Lake and Oka. Our present includes a military response to peaceful protestors on their unceded territories in Elsipogtog and at the Wet’suwet’en healing center when our indigenous people dare to assert the rights that are guaranteed under the Charter. They don't need a referendum they supposedely already have the rights that they are being arrested for invoking.

In Canada progressives mostly now just march in the streets peacefully and condemn young black bloc activists when they vent their frustrations at the inadequacy of our system for realizing the essential change required at this point in history. Most Canadians didn't say anything when the state arrested anarchists before demonstrations in TO occurred and sent some of them to jail for planning to disrupt traffic.

Canadians seldom think about what it would be like at our demos if the Russians actually interfered in our country by using agent provocateurs like we see in the streets of every none NATO country with protests against their governments. If the Chinese government started giving Indigenous people or Quebec separatists or anarchists all expense paid trips to other parts of the world to be trained in insurgency techniques to overthrow the central government of Canada does anyone think that there would not be a massive crackdown in their circles of community.

In China we have a group of people who are violently advocating "self-determination" and are being armed and trained by NATO operatives with the express purpose of destabilizing the central state of China. The response is disproportionate but only if you ignore the foreign interference at the heart of the direction that the self determination movement has taken.

I wish that the Chinese were not as authoritarian but frankly if we in the NATO imperium succeed in destabilizing the "regime" in China the vast majority of the people in that country will be far worse off than they are today. After the years of colonial servitude who can blame them for wanting to ensure that they to not again become a vassal state.