Easy to be pro-China here. Enough already!

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Carrie Lam is just a puppet for the thugs running China. She is useless and needs to step down.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGYABboYXcMXbPHb8MngqpsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqeP_CjDdg_oCMOXg6QU?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

This article does not say that nor deal with that subject matter. It is a fairly balanced take on the protests and the two sides of the debate.

North Report we get that you hate anything that is not sanctioned by the Washington Post and NY Times. Your posts that only have fake headers are becoming a form of trolling on behalf of the imperial empire. You sir are a brainwashed North American who thinks our system is better than anything else on the planet. I feel sorry for you that you are so indoctrinated that you are not able to avail yourself of the ample opportunity's you have on this board to read and expand your basic understanding of the complex world of international politics.

While it’s silly to label any country’s system as the best system in the world — the Canadian system is unquestionably one of the very best systems in the world.

Which countries, Krop, would you put ahead of Canada? Names please.

Red Winnipeg wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

Carrie Lam is just a puppet for the thugs running China. She is useless and needs to step down.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGYABboYXcMXbPHb8MngqpsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqeP_CjDdg_oCMOXg6QU?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

This article does not say that nor deal with that subject matter. It is a fairly balanced take on the protests and the two sides of the debate.

North Report we get that you hate anything that is not sanctioned by the Washington Post and NY Times. Your posts that only have fake headers are becoming a form of trolling on behalf of the imperial empire. You sir are a brainwashed North American who thinks our system is better than anything else on the planet. I feel sorry for you that you are so indoctrinated that you are not able to avail yourself of the ample opportunity's you have on this board to read and expand your basic understanding of the complex world of international politics.

While it’s silly to label any country’s system as the best system in the world — the Canadian system is unquestionably one of the very best systems in the world.

Which countries, Krop, would you put ahead of Canada? Names please.

What do you mean by best? Best for who? Canada is part of the NATO imperial system. It works very well for most Canadians but not so well for the people of places our system "helps" like Haiti, Ecuador, Venezuela, Honduras, Libya, Iraq and Syria. How is our system working for them? Many countries have not bombed other countries like we have in Libya and Syria.

If you want to peacefully protest the Trans Mountain tank farm expansion in a major urban area the current price tag is twenty eight days in jail. Get that deal quick, the Judge says the price will keep going up until everyone stops disobeying him.

If you want to talk about corruption then lets talk BC Rail and Montreal bridges and paying third world wages to temporary foreign workers building major infrastructure in Vancouver.

I know that the system advanced by the right wing American media that North Report regurgitates daily is the worst evil this planet has ever seen. That was my point.

I have despised American Exceptionalism my whole life, Canadian Exceptionalism is not something I will cheer on.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Red Winnipeg wrote:

To repeat: Names, please — as in the names of the countries you view as being among the very best in the world.

Please give me the full parameters to consider in my assessment.

You clearly have a set of your own criteria in order for you to rank the USA as “the worst” country in the world. The USA has obviously failed to meet those criteria. So, perhaps using the same criteria, which countries are among the very best, as measured by those criteria?

My personal criteria include factors such as literacy, life expectancy, infant mortality rate, per capita GDP, Gini coefficient, individual freedoms (e.g., freedom of expression and freedom of conscious), individual rights (e.g., trials by juries, right not to be deprived of one’s property without compensation), gender equity, free and fair elections (where the government in power cannot unreasonably exclude a party from participating), and so forth.

Red Winnipeg wrote:

My personal criteria include factors such as literacy, life expectancy, infant mortality rate, per capita GDP, Gini coefficient, individual freedoms (e.g., freedom of expression and freedom of conscious), individual rights (e.g., trials by juries, right not to be deprived of one’s property without compensation), gender equity, free and fair elections (where the government in power cannot unreasonably exclude a party from participating), and so forth.

LOL!

What about the right to live free from poverty?

What's with this sick fascination of giving corporate imperialists an oportunity to run ones life? The Chinese faught a civil war to get rid of capitalists. But for some bizarre odd reason that I can only asume is pure ignorance, several posters here believe that the Chinese would be better off adopting a painfully flawed and corrupt system, democracy?!?!?!?!

The Chinese give a ratts ass about the corporate imperialists invention of democracy. Get over it. I suspect that posters like you and Ken Burch are affraid that Chinese evolving Communism is actually the best form of People's government. And that it will be adopted here in the future!

Red Winnipeg wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Red Winnipeg wrote:

To repeat: Names, please — as in the names of the countries you view as being among the very best in the world.

Please give me the full parameters to consider in my assessment.

You clearly have a set of your own criteria in order for you to rank the USA as “the worst” country in the world. The USA has obviously failed to meet those criteria. So, perhaps using the same criteria, which countries are among the very best, as measured by those criteria?

 

My personal criteria include factors such as literacy, life expectancy, infant mortality rate, per capita GDP, Gini coefficient, individual freedoms (e.g., freedom of expression and freedom of conscious), individual rights (e.g., trials by juries, right not to be deprived of one’s property without compensation), gender equity, free and fair elections (where the government in power cannot unreasonably exclude a party from participating), and so forth.

So, basically countries with an Anglo-Saxon system which are rated to be the best on social metrics such as freedom by indexes which are proven to be bias towards Nato/US allies?

You would also obviously support this for everyone, correct?

Making you a passive supporter of imperial wars to spread democracy, at best.

If not war then systemic harassment and institutional subversion as occurs frequently.

A Liberal Evangelical.

I'd rather be here then in the best country in the world...

Just my two cents worth based on my 59 years life experiance. 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Great, lets have your ranking given your criteria. Who are the very best countries in the world according to you. Its your game so please continue playing.

Canada and the Nordic countries would meet most of those criteria. Other countries within Western Europe would also trend towards meeting those criteria. 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I support democracy I just don't see any examples of it on this planet.

Which countries come closest to your ideal?

WWWTT wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Please WWWTT Don't include Ken in the same category as Red Winnipeg.

Actually, I include most babblers in this catergory (supporters of democracy).  You to brother :(

But something tells me you're going to make some kind of clarification comment perhaps?

Why on earth do you include Kropotkin in that category?  He supports, as do I, democratic workers control of the means of production.   Does a person have to be an unquestioning backer of the Chinese model just to prove to you that they aren't an imperialist?

Red Winnipeg wrote:

I think that China will likely be the greatest threat to humanity in the not-too-distant future.

OK thanks for clarifying your position here.

I really hope your every fear of China happens!

Oh and by the way, the third most common language spoken in Canada, after English and French is Mandarin dialect Chinese. But you probably already knew that. That's why you hate China.

Ken Burch wrote:

Why on earth do you include Kropotkin in that category?  He supports, as do I, democratic workers control of the means of production.   Does a person have to be an unquestioning backer of the Chinese model just to prove to you that they aren't an imperialist?

Let me ask you this. Who wins in a democracy? The answer I'm going for is "the majority"

If the majority of people are workers and common folk, then why have any democracy? Big waste of time and very illogical.

WWWTT wrote:

I really hope your every fear of China happens!

Some of my biggest concerns are about personal privacy from government intrusion and control (rather than the Orwellian direction China is headed) and a lack of democratic elections and a right to freely express unpopular ideas (and ideas that are contrary to those who are in political power). 

And, those are the fears that you hope come to full fruition? 

Ken Burch wrote:

I'm not sure if it matters if a current country match's the ideals a person support.  At some point, there had to be the first country where free speech and freedom of assembly were accepted as rights; there had to be the first country which held any form of elections, among "European" places. it was probably Iceland, globally, it was likely the Iroqois Confederacy; there had to be the first country with separated religion from state; there had to be the first country which guaranteed the rights of those not of the racial, ethnic, or religious/spiritual minorities; there had to be the first country which protected LGBTQ rights; the first which accepted the rights of working people to organize in unions.

It's illogical to argue that an idea can only be considered valid or advocated for if it is already in practice; carried to the logical extreme, no idea about anything would ever have been spread or adopted.

No country likely has ever reflected anyone’s ideal form of government.

The question is one of degree: Which countries are closest to that ideal? That’s the question I have from Krop.

Red Winnipeg wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

I'm not sure if it matters if a current country match's the ideals a person support.  At some point, there had to be the first country where free speech and freedom of assembly were accepted as rights; there had to be the first country which held any form of elections, among "European" places. it was probably Iceland, globally, it was likely the Iroqois Confederacy; there had to be the first country with separated religion from state; there had to be the first country which guaranteed the rights of those not of the racial, ethnic, or religious/spiritual minorities; there had to be the first country which protected LGBTQ rights; the first which accepted the rights of working people to organize in unions.

It's illogical to argue that an idea can only be considered valid or advocated for if it is already in practice; carried to the logical extreme, no idea about anything would ever have been spread or adopted.

No country likely has ever reflected anyone’s ideal form of government.

The question is one of degree: Which countries are closest to that ideal? That’s the question I have from Krop.

The Abrahamic Faith Systems which include communism, liberalism, capitalism etc are the gravest threats and any talk of ideals is meaningless until their dismantlement.

Red Winnipeg wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

I really hope your every fear of China happens!

Some of my biggest concerns are about personal privacy from government intrusion and control (rather than the Orwellian direction China is headed) and a lack of democratic elections and a right to freely express unpopular ideas (and ideas that are contrary to those who are in political power). 

And, those are the fears that you hope come to full fruition? 

You should be worried about the North American countries first, then.  Those concerns are just as real here as in China.

Left Turn wrote:

Krop has chosen not to answer your question, but I have no qualms about saying that I consider Cuba the best country on the planet. Not by your criteria, but by my own. Namely, that everyone in Cuba has the basics of food, water, and shelter (there are no starving homeless people in Cuba); and that Cuba is the one country not contributing to the climate crisis through massive ghg emissions.

Cuba raises some interesting questions. 

First, are people around the world clamoring to live like the Cubans?

I think the answer is obvious. People do not want to merely subsist with basics — even if everyone has the basics.

If people do not want the kind of life reflected by Cuba and if they resist going in that direction, then should they be forced by authoritarian leaders to accept such a life?

The US flag is as repressive a symbol as the swastika was to my parents generation. Watching the thugs in Hong Kong with the Amerikkkan flag reminds me that brown shirts can come in black just as easily.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The US flag is as repressive a symbol as the swastika was to my parents generation. Watching the thugs in Hong Kong with the Amerikkkan flag reminds me that brown shirts can come in black just as easily.

That flag is probably the result of Trump meddling in the situation.  The bastard no doubt wants this to end in a 1989-style violent repression response so he can justify expanding the damn trade war.

Ken Burch wrote:

BTW, would you please do the decent thing and change your posting name?  You obviously hate everything the socialist tradition of Winnipeg ever represented and want to see anything similar to it crushed and replaced by a society even more greed-based than the one we have now, so it's pretty much a lie for you to call yourself "Red Winnipeg".

Red hair, my friend.

Red Winnipeg wrote:

Some of my biggest concerns are about personal privacy from government intrusion and control (rather than the Orwellian direction China is headed) and a lack of democratic elections and a right to freely express unpopular ideas (and ideas that are contrary to those who are in political power). 

And, those are the fears that you hope come to full fruition? 

First off, ya who gives a ratts ass about elections? Don't bother repeating that one again with me.

Government intrusion? The many people I know living in China and myself never had any issues with this. Last time I was there, 2018, I went online almost every day and visited rabble/babble. As far as "unpopular ideas" goes, this is probably more of your vague bullshit fabrications.

So ya I guess you are right! Since you sound like you're paranoid, your fears aren't going to come true. Sorry to disappoint you!

But why are you wasting your time with China? All that shit is happening right now in Canada. I guess you're one of these people that care more about the poor Chinese people than Canadiansand hold the Chinese government to higher standards than any western government.