babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
What has the Layton-led New Democrats done right this election
October 14, 2008 - 7:05am
"I'm Jack Layton, and I'm running to be Prime Minister."
It reframed the party's aspirations wonderfully. Sure, he wasn't likely going to win, this time, but we weren't going to be regarded as serious contenders until we started taking ourselves seriously.
He led Canadians to the water trough..if they don't have the brains to drink that's their problem...not the NDP's.
Frankly I don't know how he has the patience to deal with a biased media all the time...but I guess that's why he is a leader...they can't rattle him with there fraud and lies.
How many times have you heard a pundit or interviewer say" Why are you going to TAX corporations" ( with opposing party reps shaking there heads in a no fashion) when we all know he isn't planning to TAX but just freeze the current tax and not implement a tax break. This obviously isn't too complicated to understand much less for seasoned reporters too. Talk about a fraud and setup perforated on the Canadian people by conservative media outlets. CBC,CTV,GLOBAL all biased garbage when it comes to the NDP.
It's F*&^%&ing amazing that Jack could even pull off 20 percent support given the power the enemy has going for it. Now just think if there was an NDP biased MSM..what would happen? That is what Canada needs to balance out the corruption. You fight fire with fire, but the funny thing is the NDP msm wouldn't have to lie or cheat like the others.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
The NDP also recognized that elections are about leaders, and put their leader Jack Layton out front and centre.
I think the NDP has made the Liberals realize this time that the left-of-centre vote cannot be taken for granted.
And I did like the "a new kind of strong" ads - though all this "strength" bullshit that we hear about every election just seems to play into humanity's inner fascist, but eh.
Is it going to lead to a breakthrough for the NDP? I sure hope so, but we'll see. In the meantime, though, any shortfall in the NDP's numbers can't be blamed on the campaign. I think the NDP's done a hell of a job this election.
Furthermore, I generally see no substantive difference between the Liberals and the NDP, and on top of that there are serious flaws with the "Cap and Trade" scheme that the NDP and Greens are proposing, which is basically neo-liberal smoke and mirrors, as far as I am concerned. I will be going with a direct tax on poluters.
This is about the overall NDP strategy and tactics.
Totally, my experience of rank and file NDP membership on this site has been appauling. Woke up this morning to another thread full of NDP children taunting someone. And yeah, the cap and trade thing is just bollocks,
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
do you mind explaining that to me? I mean, four lost candidates shows a serious problem with candidate vetting (not that the other parties didn't have problems), especially in the case of the former NDP candidate from Durham?
This hits the nail on the head. I never once heard a reporter ask Dion- you can't possibly win, what are you talking about.
What Jack did was shove back at the media, by saying we are a serious party, with a serious plan to govern. What happens in this election will set the stage for the next and the NDP campaign this time was very, very good.
Well, I will say that makes no less sense than most arguments for strategic voting.
Besides, it doesn't really matter. Its just a spectacle mostly anyway.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Cueball quit acting like a spoiled child and trying to derail this thread. How you get away with this continued behaviour is beyond me. If you want to start a thread about how the NDP is so bad because some totally anonymous people on babble were mean to me than go ahead.
Much like yours? [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
What's the matter poopsey, I was just reflecting on how well the Layton-led New Democrats have run the campaign. As far as this site goes you guys botched it.
Remember you guys are my number one contact with the party.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Regarding the issue of candidates stepping down etc...I think that this happened to ALL parties and it is a lesson to us all to make changes to the vetting process for candidates.
When people analyze the 2008 election campaign down the road, i think that these individual candidate issues will be be a footnote and a minor distraction.
Move to another thread
This is clearly about positve things, if you want a negative thread about what a poor picked on little 5th grader you are start another.
Move to another thread
This is clearly about positve things, if you want a negative thread about what a poor picked on little 5th grader you are start another.
Ack, it happens to me all the time cueball, and it's usually a bunch of non-NDP men here, just like yesterday. And I agree individual tussles are the best, however, usually people need to put their 2 cents worth in, just as you do when passing by a scene where you want to comment...
Well, you were primary in preventing me from supporting the NDP for many years now, but the general atmosphere here, slanders, gang attacks, and so on and so forth was a real motivator in an entirely alternate direction.
I'd really like to see the NDP promoting an "democratic" culture within itself, but nothing like that has been evident over the last few weeks, so....
Add to the moral victory of a progressive campaign I anticipate that following this election there will be over 100 ridings where New Democrats got over 20% of the vote and, if we didn't win them this time, we will win them next time. We are well positioned to offer a "progressive" alternative to Canada.
Go Jack Go.
[img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
I'm flattered.
Hardly.
First off, there is very little evidence of a "principled" stand on Afghanistan. The NDP position and the Green party position as enounciated by various leading NDP'rs, seems to be about the same.
Secondly, the Cap and Trade thing is just neo-liberal bozo economics. The whole scheme reminds me of the Phoney-Baloney LETS Economics. I'll go with a direct tax on poluters, as a step in the righ direction.
Thirdly, though the issue of Palestine, never made it to anyones radar, there continues to be very little in the NDP position that is substantially different than the Liberals.
Fourthly, Dion comes off as a much, much, much more sincere and human person than Jack Layton ever will.
Fifthly, not a word on Omar Khadr from the NDP, except that Beyers wants to set up special legislation to conduct special prosecution of the case, here in Canada. That was pretty ugly.
Sixthly, the NDP core here has outdone itself in ruthlessly smearing, and attacking people who say things that are openly critical of the NDP.
I would vote for Duceppe, but can't so...
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Mojoraod1, can you please explain what you mean by this statement? I think the NDP has had a serious problem concerning how they vett their candidates (ie, ex-NDP Durham candidate)?
A good point. This election will redefine the next tier of competitive ridings and low-hanging fruit. I'm anticipating a lot of tight three-way races, especially in BC and Ontario, and some of them are probably going to break New Democrats' hearts tonight. But assuming a minority, we won't need to wait long for the next opportunity.
I agree with your comments, and feel the same way, this election changed the fabric, and I believe the use of internet social groups and youtube was significant.
I think its too late to change your mind Cueball. Happy voting!
As for what the New Democrats have done right and wrong...
Right
They have, from the top anyways, run a very clean and professional campaign. Probably the best out of any of the parties. Frequent and colourful positive and negative advertisements, very professional press conferences. The running for Prime Minister tack worked well enough, reflecting a change in attitude for the party. (I will say it comes off as a little disingenuous at times) They came reasonably close to contending to be the official opposition.
Wrong
I'm not sure whether to characterize this as a wrong thing or not, but the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party. Many issues they have started concentrating on are very small, designed more to attract votes than anything else: Corporate Tax hikes (which, I'm sorry, is a terrible idea in this country), corporate profits, banks, ATM fees, Liberal abstensions, Stephen Harper's sweater.
I don't know. To me, they've completely ceded the ground of parlimentary gadfly.
Its more an ideological shift than anything. If they do overtake the Liberals this election or next, it might have been worth it. But I don't see the NDP doing that.
They also could vet thier candidates a little better. It cost them 2 possible seats in BC.