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Works by trading carbon credits with who?
And also, how can you say it "works" in the same sentence where you basically admit it hasn't been established, even in Europe?
PROTEST-Indigenous Peoples "2nd MAY REVOLT" at the UNPFII
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
I thought Jack Layton's "running for Prime Minister" motif was genius. Nothing inspires a second look like a person who refuses to be boxed in by prevailing notions about the NDP's ability to only gain enough seats to be ever be a junior partner in a government, instead of being the government.
What is unprincipled about it? They want Canadian troops out don't they? Should we stay and meddle with the lives of ordinary afgahns?
The core is pretty large, are you sure you want to judge us all based on your expierences on Babble?
He announced it, but I'm not sure if he walked the walk. It's a constant critism (I'm guilty of it too) that I get back about the NDP... Exceedingly good at picking apart Harper and the Cons, but fail to give a vision of our own. Well, thats not true, but the vision seems to be secondary to the message of the "wrongness of the Conservatives". Not to say this wasn't a good step from Layton, but it'll have to be taken to the next level... Screw telling us why the Cons are wrong and start with telling us why the NDP is right (act as the leader and not the opposition).
Outside of a couple other points, it seemed like a good campaign (from what i saw atleast). I would have liked to see a little more stress from the NDP regarding PR as well (It'd win votes here atleast... EMay declaring it as the first thing she'd do struck some chords here). I'd also like to see the campaign opened up away from the 'working families'... And not just a reword to 'hard working families' [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Working singles and non-working students are voters too.
And cheers to anyone that got off their puters to campaign, tis your efforts that keep this (mostly-futile) democracy alive.
Furthermore, the NDP's roots are not "urban progressive" the NDP's roots are at the grass roots level where some of the thing you mention impact significantly. I see them as going back to their roots more.
And Layton's use of the sweater comments against Harper will be remembered for generations.
They can't. Canada dosen't really have a working class anymore. The people who toyle to make the goods we need(or want) live in China and Thailand, Botswana and Peru. What remains of Canada's blue colar workforce has been stolen by the other parties. The party is now forced to appeal to gentrifacation loving, capachino sipping middle class activists in order to survive. The party needs to be rejuvinated, but it still has some decent people inside it, and is still worth supporting. It's not easy to save an organization if you are not part of it.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]
Cueball, last time I checked you've been one of the most vocal opponents of NDP policy around here. In so far that you are accusing people on rabble for turning you off the NDP I'd suggest that the majority of rabble posters are turned off you. the fact that you are 'non-partisan' is a bit of a misnomer. By your posts - mostly derogatory and negative- of course you are going to bring the ire of progressives. I highly doubt if Layton walked on water you would have voted NDP 'if at all' as you say. 'nuff said.
That's great, but as you can see from the thread title, this is about what the NDP did RIGHT this election. I think there's another thread for left-wing criticism of the NDP - that would be an appropriate place for these comments. Don't worry, they'll see them there. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Certainly the industrial working class is greatly diminished. But what about all those people working in the ever-expanding service sector?
Moreover, I don't know any reason not to consider nurses and teachers and social workers and construction workers and call centre personnel and etc. etc. 'working class'.
Really, then why you post? I give credit where credit is due. But of course when I say things like, we should "give the NDP credit" for raising the issue of poverty, people call me a "liberal" or a communist or... something.
And as for "the majority of rabble posters are turned off you" Mr. joined on 07 August 2008 to flyer the board for the election campaign, with 174 flyers (posts) who gave you the right to speak for the majority of rabble posters, or their opinions of me? Nor do you have even the slightest idea of what I think and believe, but you seem more than happy to speak as if you do.
But this isn't just about me, its about a number of people all exposed to the same treatment, largely by fair weather Babblers with nearly no posting history, and a large amount of gall.
ok.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
OK, but can those people donate their time and money to the party?
In the early days of the ccf, utterly impoverished (near starving) farmers and workers donated their time and money.
But I'm not a social democrat or a member of the ndp so I'm not going to comment further on this topic here. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
I think you answered your own question there. All the parties had that problem. It's a brave new world with the internet. Sure the vetting process could be better, but in the end those are small side notes. I could argue, I think quite legitimately, that at least the NDP kicked out it's perceived wingnuts. The others parties (mostly) just muzzle or keep theirs front and central! [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Can and do, having served as both official agent during campaigns and financial officer for a riding association I have prepared the tax receipts... last time I did so almost half the total raised was from donations under $100. If you factor in the value of the time donated, well, the association would collapse without them.
As it happens, this NDP man was an NDP man long before he got his B.Sc in nuclear science and even now, still lives in a rented apartment, doesn't drink cappucino at all, nor latte, and thinks soy milk is disgustingly, unspeakably gross.
So, stereotype much there, buddy?
Ahh thanks for the clarification. Who were you once, or do you mind me asking?
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Co-opting the Tory frame and flinging it back at them with a new kind of strong showed a new kind of seriousness.
Could have used Dion's support for the Tory corporate tax cuts as further evidence that the Liberals are just Conservatives.
Highly effective slap-down of Dion in the debate.
The one serious problem, I think, was candidate vetting (as statica has mentioned).
While one of these candidates (Durham) was a last minute filler, I understand, the other three were serious candidates, it seemed.
We may need to adapt a system as in the UK where the party heirarchy vets candidates before they are allowed to stand for a nomination.
My parent's aren't yuppies either, so maybe I should change the arguement just a tad...
There may be a working class that still exists in Canada, and many NDPers are not efeet urbanites but the working class the party speaks for isn't as well organized or well paid as they were in the past, so it has to try and snare people who are afluent and yuppiefied in order to get large cash infusions. If the Unions were still a major force in this country(and if Buzz Hargrove wasn't a turncoat,) it would be different, but...
He would likely claim it is because New Democrats can't swim. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
I think it is reasonable to think I would be classified more as a thoughtful partisan than as a nasty partisan.
But I may change my ways if its going to ancourage new entertainment from Cueball.
But some editing is called for. I stared skimming.
Ya, those attacks really sucked on babble by people who couldn't even be bothered to read the articles I've written for rabble without making all these stupid assumptions about me and my political beliefs and then other people ganging up to protect the party.
And some things the NDP did as a party really sucked (though there are so many individual memebers who make up the NDP who have been so kind to me while a small small handful were pretty mean) nevermind the fact the party lost four candidates because of an extremely poor candidate vetting processes. I hope these issues will be strongly examined now that the craziness of the election is over.
But the NDP has been the best party regarding their support towards allowing Iraq War resisters to stay in Canada. It was on board supporting the issue well before the Liberals got involved and it was (the amazing) Olivia Chow who brought the June 3rd motion to our Parliament. Peggy Nash has been amazing, too, and her defeat is heartbreaking.
The NDP also has good ideas regarding helping to eradicate poverty (none of this liberal-wish-washy "poverty reduction" -- let's aim for poverty eradication) with mother and child care support and things like helping to pay for the high costs for prescription drugs and their wish to raise the min. wage.
Ed to add: I like how the NDP stands as a party to remind the Liberals that parliamentary politics can't be business as usual and that the Liberals can't take any votes from "the left" for granted.
Shameless Plug:
Iraq War Resister Musical Benefit:
Friday October 24, 2008
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=34520345740&ref=share
[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: statica ]
Running to win was the big thing - but that meant, putting the NDP on par with the other party in terms of resources.
The message was simple and clear. It also became very easy to donate money to individual campaigns. I have no interest in donating to the “big pot” but giving what I could to some of the campaigns that need the support is necessary. I wouldn’t have given money at all!
I’ve become convinced that the NDP won’t be able to put itself in a winning position until it has a sustained apparatus on the ground in all regions. This is why I have faith that seats will (eventually) return in Saskatchewan. Conversely for those Liberals whom blame Dion for their ales they are sadly mistaken. They have many more systemic issues at play.
The question becomes how credible can the NDP make itself across the country and what kind of resources can the ridings count on generating?
While messaging is important – development of a proper base is critical.