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My point was that NATO is failing miserably in its stated goals. OTOH, NATO is wildly successful in killing Afghan civilians, blowing wedding parties and blushing brides into body parts, restoring Afghanistan to its "rightful" place as the biggest exporter of opiates and/or heroin on Planet Earth, and so on. Let freedom reign! NOT.
quote:A male passenger in an Afghan vehicle died after Canadian soldiers fired on a civilian truck that was driving toward their military convoy Thursday evening.
The soldiers were travelling through Kandahar City at about 8:30 p.m. when the transport truck loaded with fruit approached their convoy, said military officials.
Soldiers in the convoy, fearing a suicide attack, tried repeatedly to get the driver to turn away before eventually firing a warning shot, said officials.
"Neither the warning signals nor the warning shot were heeded," said military spokesman Lt. Alain Blondin.
The soldiers then fired two additional shots from the turret cannon on a light-armoured vehicle, stopping the truck, and a subsequent investigation revealed one of the occupants was killed.
The soldiers had followed proper escalation of force procedures, said Blondin.
"Not guilty", says the spokesperson for the murderers.
The French did not have enough bullets, radios and other equipment, the report said. The troops were forced to abandon a counterattack when the weapons on their vehicles ran out of ammunition only 90 minutes into a battle that stretched over two days.
One French platoon had only a single radio and it was quickly disabled, leaving them unable to call for help.
Chillingly, in an indication that the French troopers may have been at the mercy of their attackers, the dead soldiers from that platoon “showed signs of being killed at close range,” the report said.
quote:While praising the performance of U.S. and French troops under the onslaught, the report singled out the Afghan soldiers for criticism.
Of course you gotta praise the NATO troops. Never, ever criticize the performance of the godly troops. Kevlar body armour makes soldiers immune to criticism.
quote:“The ANA performed very poorly,” the report said. “The ANA force spent much of the time lounging on the battlefield. When they finally dispersed, most left their military equipment [including] weapons ID cards, and other items for the enemy.”
My word, it's so hard to find good help these days. If they aren't stealing your silverwear, they're abandoning your Crusader occupation forces to slaughter by their countrymen. You just can't trust your hired people anymore.
quote:Originally posted by Jingles: My word, it's so hard to find good help these days. If they aren't stealing your silverwear, they're abandoning your Crusader occupation forces to slaughter by their countrymen. You just can't trust your hired people anymore.
A small point, except maybe it's not that small, from the blog "Torch" linked to above by M Spector...
quote: Doug Beazley of the Sun Media group noted these signs last year, but wasn't optimistic about their use:
On the back of their armoured RG 31 vehicle hung a sign painted in bright red Arabic characters. "What does it mean?" I asked.
"It says 'Keep back 50 feet from vehicle,'" said Adams. "Which is kinda stupid, 'cause from 50 feet back you can't read the sign.
"And if you get close enough to read it, chances are we're already shooting at you."
The signs are in Arabic. It's also noted later in the piece that most Afghans speak either Pashto or Dari, with a handful of other languages being less common.
Arabic is not a language spoken in the country. Anyone who seriously studies the Koran will have some exposure to the language, but that's like expecting me to be able to be conversant in Latin because I used to be an alter boy.
quote:Originally posted by oldgoat: The signs are in Arabic.
They're in Arabic characters. Many Muslim countries used, or still use, Arabic script for their languages, even though the language may have no common origin whatsoever with Arabic. Examples: Ottoman Turkish, Urdu (Pakistan), and of course the various Afghan languages.
quote:Originally posted by Fidel: Saudi influence in Afghanistan?
The only Saudi influence in Afghanistan is via their close ally - the United States.
As for Al Qaeda, when was the last year anyone heard that name in connection with the Afghan insurgency? There used to be a "babbler" who insisted that the Canadian "mission" was against Al Qaeda, but he's mercifully no longer around.
While clashes in remote Helmand dominate the headlines, another battle is being waged by the insurgents on Kabul's doorstep. There, the Taliban are winning support by building a parallel administration, which is more effective, more popular and more brutal than the government's....
quote:Most of [Wardak] province's 800,000 inhabitants, mainly peasants, go to the insurgents for rough but often effective justice.
"I can't blame them," Ishaqzai [a government judge in Wardak] said. "A court case in the government system takes five years and many bribes. The Taliban will settle it in an afternoon."
This article was linked to and discussed here on August 24. Still an important article, though.
Why don't you spend all your time here like we do, Jerry? [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] Seriously though, your knowledge of the subject is always helpful.
quote:I think we deliberately got rid of the moderate elements which could have been powerful during the Soviet invasion. We removed them from the scene, and I think the CIA also went along in that. I think there were many right-wing activists in the United States who encouraged Pakistan to go that way. But what happened in the process was that as our youth went into Afghanistan to get training, they became a certain kind of Muslims. In Afghanistan, the predominant school of thought is what is called Deobandi, which is a puritanical kind of Islam. And the Barelvis, who are a majority in Pakistan, could not go there because there was no tolerance for Lower Church in Afghanistan. And that started the conflict.
Afghanistan is unlucky in the sense that the "Taliban Islam" they got was not really their Islam. Now that Karzai is in power, he has suspended all the Taliban laws, saying, "They are not our laws at all." Which meant that this new thinking, extremist Islamic thinking, went from Pakistani seminaries, seminaries of High Church, Deobandi brand, which could not be implemented in Pakistan, but found fertile ground in Kabul and Kandahar. Now that Pakistanis complain of "Talibanization," they should realize that the new stringent laws against women and against the minorities actually went from our seminaries.
And unemployed Islamic Gladios were transplanted from Afghanistan to the Balkans for the CIA-British campaign to destablize 1990's Bosnia-Yugoslavia.
quote:And that has added to the loathing that some people there have long felt for the way that the US conducts itself on the world stage, as Owen Bennett-Jones discovers.
"I would rather live in the dark ages under the Taleban than be subservient to any foreign power."
The unexpected comment comes from an urbane, sophisticated and, I had always thought, Westernised Pashtun lawyer.
He wears none of the badges of Islamic piety - a beard, for example - and he normally sports a navy blazer not the local shalwar kameez.
He is a former minister with the Pakistan People's Party, the most liberal in Pakistan. ...
"I can deal with Taleban, they are my own people. They come from here. I know them.
"I will be able to get around them. But the Americans never. No way."
Indeed. I can think of few things which would unite a people, who's disunitedness is legendary, than being attacked by US forces. There would not only be the tough and resilient people who live in the area of the Durand line, but the Pakistani military. It should be noted that this is a very tough, professional and kick-ass little army.
It's been observed that US forces are indefeatable in standard warefare, though they can't handle occupations and insurgencies. Given how over extended and exhausted they are, they could actually have their asses handed to them in straight-up warfare in Pakistan.
quote:Just one year ago, the Taliban insurgency was a furtive, loosely organized guerrilla force that carried out hit-and-run ambushes, burned empty schools, left warning letters at night and concentrated attacks in the southern rural regions of its ethnic and religious heartland.
Today it is a larger, better armed and more confident militia, capable of mounting sustained military assaults. Its forces operate in virtually every province and control many districts in areas ringing the capital. Its fighters have bombed embassies and prisons, nearly assassinated the president, executed foreign aid workers and hanged or beheaded dozens of Afghans.
The new Taliban movement has created a parallel government structure that includes defense and finance councils and appoints judges and officials in some areas. It offers cash to recruits and presents letters of introduction to local leaders. It operates Web sites and a 24-hour propaganda apparatus that spins every military incident faster than Afghan and Western officials can manage.
"This is not the Taliban of Emirate times. It is a new, updated generation," said Waheed Mojda, a former foreign ministry aide under the Taliban Islamic Emirate, which ruled most of the country from 1996 to 2001. "They are more educated, and they don't punish people for having CDs or cassettes," he said. "The old Taliban wanted to bring sharia, security and unity to Afghanistan. The new Taliban has much broader goals -- to drive foreign forces out of the country and the Muslim world."
In late 2001, U.S. forces made common cause with ethnic groups in Afghanistan's north to overthrow the Taliban, in response to Osama bin Laden's use of the country as a base. Hamid Karzai was tapped as president by the United States and other powers, then elected to the job. In the early years, much of the deeply conservative Muslim country was largely peaceful and secure.
Over the past two years, the Taliban's revival has been fueled by fast-growing popular dissatisfaction with Karzai's government, which has failed to bring services and security to much of the country. Deepening public resentment against civilian deaths caused by U.S. and NATO alliance airstrikes is another factor.
No one here believes that the insurgents, estimated at 10,000 to 15,000 fighters, are currently capable of seizing the capital of Kabul or toppling the government, which is backed by more than 130,000 international troops. But a series of spectacular urban attacks in recent months, notably the bombing of the Indian Embassy and an armed assault on a parade reviewing stand where Karzai sat, have turned Kabul into a maze of bunkers and barricades that drive officialdom ever farther from the public.
quote: Just one year ago, the Taliban insurgency was a furtive, loosely organized guerrilla force that carried out hit-and-run ambushes, burned empty schools, left warning letters at night and concentrated attacks in the southern rural regions of its ethnic and religious heartland.
Today it is a larger, better armed and more confident militia, capable of mounting sustained military assaults. Its forces operate in virtually every province and control many districts in areas ringing the capital. Its fighters have bombed embassies and prisons, nearly assassinated the president, executed foreign aid workers and hanged or beheaded dozens of Afghans.
I disagree, the Taliban were operating in 300 man groups in as early of spring of 2006 and were assassinating officials and other people that disagree with them.
Taliban groups have never been a loosely organized guerrilla force, they are very structure.
Their tactics and weapons have not changed since 1980s nor have their objectives.
quote: The new Taliban has much broader goals -- to drive foreign forces out of the country and the Muslim world."
Does this almost sound like an international organization?
quote:Afghanistan lives in the fear of the US-sponsored war lords. These hated warlords are not scared by the Taliban-monster raising its head in the south. Ironically, they live in the fear of an unarmed girl in her late twenties: Malalai Joya. To silence Joya’s defiant voice, war lords dominating national parliament, suspended Joy’s membership for three years in 2007. Earlier, at almost every parliamentary session she attended, she had her hair pulled or physically attacked and called names (‘whore’). ‘They even threatened me in the parliament with rape’, she says. But she neither toned down her criticism of war lords (‘they must be tried’) nor US occupation (‘war on terror’ is a mockery). Understandably, she’s been declared the ‘bravest woman in Afghanistan’ and even compared with Aung Sun Suu Kyi . . .
Why is the USA letting all this happen?
Joya: The USA wants the things as they are. The status quo. A bleeding, suffering Afghanistan is a good excuse to prolong its stay. Now they are even embracing the Taliban. Recently, in Musa Qila, a Taliban commander Mulla Salam was appointed as governor by Karzai. The USA has no problem with the Taliban so long as it’s ‘our Taliban’.
Must keep colonies suppressed, poverty-stricken and in chaos. Desperately poor people easier to rule over than healthy and well educated. Old ideas.
I think it quite possible that this weekend's bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad was the work not of "Islamists" but of the U.S. government wanting to instil the fear of the Talibans in the population and to detabilize a new government hostile to a U.S. invasion. It's happened before. It would explain the abrupt, unexplained, last-minute cancellation of a dinner meeting the new Pakistan president was supposed to have there.
But do the math:
There are 34 provinces in Afghanistan. That makes 34 corrupt, murdering, thieving, traitorous governors kept in power solely thanks to foreign "help".
One governor killed by friendly fire is only 2.9%.
I'd call that an acceptable margin of collateral damage, compared to the overall benefit.
The last thing we need is a powerful and efficient Afghan army, air force, and police under the direction of the puppet Karzai government.
"Not guilty", says the spokesperson for the murderers.
The French did not have enough bullets, radios and other equipment, the report said. The troops were forced to abandon a counterattack when the weapons on their vehicles ran out of ammunition only 90 minutes into a battle that stretched over two days.
One French platoon had only a single radio and it was quickly disabled, leaving them unable to call for help.
Chillingly, in an indication that the French troopers may have been at the mercy of their attackers, the dead soldiers from that platoon “showed signs of being killed at close range,” the report said.
[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]
Of course you gotta praise the NATO troops. Never, ever criticize the performance of the godly troops. Kevlar body armour makes soldiers immune to criticism.
My word, it's so hard to find good help these days. If they aren't stealing your silverwear, they're abandoning your Crusader occupation forces to slaughter by their countrymen. You just can't trust your hired people anymore.
That is the truth.
The signs are in Arabic. It's also noted later in the piece that most Afghans speak either Pashto or Dari, with a handful of other languages being less common.
Arabic is not a language spoken in the country. Anyone who seriously studies the Koran will have some exposure to the language, but that's like expecting me to be able to be conversant in Latin because I used to be an alter boy.
I am pretty sure that Doug Beazley is wrong in saying those signs are in Arabic.
(Another journalist that does not know what he/she is talking about, maybe a topic for another thread)
I am about 90% sure that those signs are in written in Pasthun.
Pashto
But then, like half of the men in Afghanistan, I am illiterate in Pashto.
They're in Arabic characters. Many Muslim countries used, or still use, Arabic script for their languages, even though the language may have no common origin whatsoever with Arabic. Examples: Ottoman Turkish, Urdu (Pakistan), and of course the various Afghan languages.
So Beazley isn't wrong.
The only Saudi influence in Afghanistan is via their close ally - the United States.
As for Al Qaeda, when was the last year anyone heard that name in connection with the Afghan insurgency? There used to be a "babbler" who insisted that the Canadian "mission" was against Al Qaeda, but he's mercifully no longer around.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Why don't you spend all your time here like we do, Jerry? [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] Seriously though, your knowledge of the subject is always helpful.
Yes-yes! The Talibanization of Pakistan & Afghanistan
And unemployed Islamic Gladios were transplanted from Afghanistan to the Balkans for the CIA-British campaign to destablize 1990's Bosnia-Yugoslavia.
US raids on Taleban and al-Qaeda targets in Pakistani territory have caused outrage in Pakistan.
It's been observed that US forces are indefeatable in standard warefare, though they can't handle occupations and insurgencies. Given how over extended and exhausted they are, they could actually have their asses handed to them in straight-up warfare in Pakistan.
I disagree, the Taliban were operating in 300 man groups in as early of spring of 2006 and were assassinating officials and other people that disagree with them.
Taliban groups have never been a loosely organized guerrilla force, they are very structure.
Their tactics and weapons have not changed since 1980s nor have their objectives.
Does this almost sound like an international organization?
Must keep colonies suppressed, poverty-stricken and in chaos. Desperately poor people easier to rule over than healthy and well educated. Old ideas.
[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]