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Palin VIII

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Ghislaine
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Joined: Feb 15 2008
quote:Originally posted by bigcitygal:
Actually, it's one in four:

Note that this is not broken down in terms of male/female Clinton supporters.

What would be interesting to ponder is why. Because of anger over the Barack nomination win? Because of the "support any woman" kookiness? (Which I personally believe is a myth, btw) Because of "support the all-white ticket"? I'm not sure if it's possible to answer this with any real meaning.

I agree that it is a myth that there is this significant portion of women that only see gender and are not intelligent enough to vote based on policy.

I do think that there are Hilary supporters who are going to vote for McCain because they are angry that Obama did not pick her as his veep and they may think that she can come back in 2012 if he loses. If Obama wins, then Hilary is mostly likely done.


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
I think it's likely a combination of all the things that have been mentioned and when you add them all up you get the number. Doubtful there's just one general reason that fits them all.

M. Spector
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Joined: Feb 19 2005
quote:Originally posted by Ghislaine:
I agree that it is a myth that there is this significant portion of women that only see gender and are not intelligent enough to vote based on policy.
I see no reason to call it a myth.

There is a significant portion of men in Amerika who would not vote for a woman for President, and are not intelligent enough to vote based on policy.

I believe the same would be true of women, mutatis mutandis.

ETA: Also, the idea that Clinton supporters are holding their noses and voting for McCain just to spite Barack Obama is ludicrous. The above figures show that 20% of Clinton supporters view Palin "positively", so if they support McCain/Palin in November, it won't be just out of negativity towards Obama.

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


Polly B
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Joined: Dec 15 2004
quote:Many parishes distributed a voter guide, produced by an outside conservative Catholic group called Catholic Answers, which identified five “nonnegotiable” issues for faithful voters: abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning, euthanasia and same-sex marriage.

The environment, the economy, foreign affairs...meh, not nearly as important as reproduction. Amazing how incredibly stupid religion can be.

Edited to add...above from Josh's link.

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: Polly Brandybuck ]


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
Since the election seems to be moving away to being directly just about Palin talk all all over the place into more general, about her/them and the election is it okay to let this thread morph into more a general thread since there's not already one started?
This next issue isn't directly about Palin so I could start a new thread, not sure. Let me know if I should repost it separately.

McCain and the Issue of Spain.
-----------------------------------------
This isn't getting a lot of MSN airtime yet but it's been simmering for a few days.


Not a Gaffe?

quote: In McCain's bizarre interview with Spain's Union Radio he refused to say whether he would meet with Spain's Prime Minister, Josй Luis Rodrнguez Zapatero. Listening to the interview repeatedly, it simply seemed that McCain had no idea who Zapatero actually was. McCain seemed to think he was a Latin American autocrat - despite the reporter repeatedly saying "I am talking about Spain." This gaffe would seem to have very significant implications. Not knowing who the leader of Spain was or thinking Spain was in Latin America would not really be shocking coming from his running mate, but McCain has run on his foreign policy expertise and such confusion completely undercuts his credibility. Furthermore this gaffe would bring up real questions about his age. Is McCain really prepared to deal with a crisis at 3AM, when he can't even remember who the leader of Spain is during a late evening interview?

But was it a gaffe? While it definitely seemed so, now Randy Sheunemann, McCain's foreign policy adviser is shockingly saying that this is not a gaffe but an intentional expression of policy toward Spain.

McCain Meant to Reject Spain

Confusion in Spain

The Pain in Spain Falls Mainly on McCain

[ 22 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


josh
Online
Joined: Aug 5 2002
After eight threads, anything that gets away from Palin has to be good. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

The macro picture:

quote:

This presidential contest has certainly been a roller-coaster ride. And as we suggested yesterday, something in the race turned this week. Two new national polls now show Obama with single-digit leads over McCain -- about where the race was before the conventions. The reason why Obama’s up: women. According to the latest New York Times/CBS survey, Obama is ahead overall by five points (48%-43%); a week ago after the GOP convention, CBS had McCain up two points overall (46%-44%) and five points among women (47%-42%). But in the latest poll, Obama once again has the advantage with female voters (54%-38%). The same holds true in a new national Quinnipiac survey, which finds Obama with a four-point lead over McCain (49%-45%) and a 14-point edge among women (54%-40%). Every poll out this week -- whether by a good pollster or a mediocre one -- has shown the same trend: movement towards Obama. It's hard to ignore and one can sense the conventional wisdom shifting again. We have literally lived the adage this week: seven days is a lifetime in politics.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/18/1414839.aspx


Willowdale Wizard
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Joined: Jan 31 2003
Yes, I've seen a transcript, and McCain seemed very befuddled. Still, Republicans have hated Zapatero for years, mainly for withdrawing from Iraq. He's not been invited to the White House under Bush. He openly supported Kerry on the eve of the 2004 election. Rice has criticised him over Zapatero's Cuba policy.

It seems mutual. In 2003, as head of the Socialist Party then in opposition, Zapatero declined to join other Spanish officials in standing up when U.S. troops marched past a VIP stand during a parade to mark National Day. The next year, as prime minister, he did not even invite the Americans.


josh
Online
Joined: Aug 5 2002
Maybe McCain had a flashback to watching this movie.

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: josh ]


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
quote:Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
Yes, I've seen a transcript, and McCain seemed very befuddled. Still, Republicans have hated Zapatero for years, mainly for withdrawing from Iraq. He's not been invited to the White House under Bush. He openly supported Kerry on the eve of the 2004 election. Rice has criticised him over Zapatero's Cuba policy.

It seems mutual. In 2003, as head of the Socialist Party then in opposition, Zapatero declined to join other Spanish officials in standing up when U.S. troops marched past a VIP stand during a parade to mark National Day. The next year, as prime minister, he did not even invite the Americans.

I think what is significant about this beyond was it initial confusion and those implications is that since his advisor has now come out and said, 'No he really meant it" that it's indicating an even worse relationship. He pretty much called them enemies outright who want to harm the US. It also contradicts what he said back in April.

From the first 'gaffe?" link:

quote:Republican presidential candidate, John McCain, is ready to change the policy of estrangement with the Spanish government that was put in place for four years now by George Bush. He declared that he was ready to fully normalize bilateral relations and that Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero was invited to the White House.

Willowdale Wizard
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Joined: Jan 31 2003
I don't get why the accepted wisdom is that McCain's strong suit is international relations ... when he says things like this, or "Czechoslovakia" ... or that Iraq has a land-border with Pakistan.

ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
quote:Originally posted by Willowdale Wizard:
I don't get why the accepted wisdom is that McCain's strong suit is international relations ... when he says things like this, or "Czechoslovakia" ... or that Iraq has a land-border with Pakistan.

Me neither. I guess we'll see with this goes now.
The Spanish Press apparently pretty much came to the conclusion that he was just confused, likely between Zapatero vs Zapatista and were leaving it as a dumb slip up. That was before the advisor came out and said, "Um nope he actually meant it." Might get stirred up again.


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
I've been noticing this over the past week. I've never in a political campaign beyond the most partisan voice actually use the words 'lie' and 'liar' so much instead of all of the couching words.

The Lying Game

quote:Politics has always been lousy with blather and chicanery. But there are rules and traditions too. In the early weeks of the general-election campaign, a consensus has grown in the political community — a consensus that ranges from practitioners like Karl Rove to commentators like, well, me — that John McCain has allowed his campaign to slip the normal bounds of political propriety. The situation has gotten so intense that we in the media have slipped our normal rules as well. Usually when a candidate tells something less than the truth, we mince words. We use euphemisms like mendacity and inaccuracy ... or, as the Associated Press put it, "McCain's claims skirt facts." But increasing numbers of otherwise sober observers, even such august institutions as the New York Times editorial board, are calling John McCain a liar. You might well ask, What has McCain done to deserve this? What unwritten rules did he break? Are his transgressions of degree or of kind? ..................................
Almost every politician stretches the truth. We journalists try to point out the exaggerations and criticize them, then let the voters decide.
......................
McCain's lies have ranged from the annoying to the sleazy, and the problem is in both degree and kind. His campaign has been a ceaseless assault on his opponent's character and policies, featuring a consistent—and witting—disdain for the truth. Even after 38 million Americans heard Obama say in his speech at the Democratic National Convention that he was open to offshore oil-drilling and building new nuclear-power plants, McCain flatly said in his acceptance speech that Obama opposed both. Normal political practice would be for McCain to say, "Obama says he's 'open to' offshore drilling, but he's always opposed it. How can we believe him?" This persistence in repeating demonstrably false charges is something new in presidential politics.
----------------------

josh
Online
Joined: Aug 5 2002
quote:

Ideological differences aside, John McCain's campaign has been more dishonest, more unfair, more -- to use a word that resonates with McCain -- dishonorable than Barack Obama's.

. . . .

McCain's transgressions, though, are of a different magnitude. His whoppers are bigger; there are more of them. He -- the easy out would be to say "his campaign" -- has been misleading, and at times has outright lied, about his opponent. He has misrepresented -- that's the charitable verb -- his vice presidential nominee's record. Called on these fouls, he has denied and repeated them.

The most outrageous of McCain's distortions involve Obama on taxes. He asserts that Obama's new taxes could "break your family budget," and that an Obama presidency would inflict "painful tax increases on working American families." Hardly. Obama would lower taxes for most households, and lower them more than McCain would. The only "painful tax increases on working American families" would be on working families making more than $250,000.

http://tinyurl.com/67j8ds


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
Whoops here we go again...

There have been some stories posted about the 'hacking' of Palin email account. Some screenshots were posted and that's about it.
Well it may not be over, there's a little storm brewing off the port bow. There's been some speculation on who it was. Was it just a dumb teenager? Some sort of rovian planned 'thingy'? The theory on that one goes, 'well isn't it convenient that at the very time that the whole email issue is under scruitiny because of Troopergate that something happens that not only could garner sympathy but could cover email deletion'.

So of course the secret service and FBI is on the case. Looks like the perpetrator isn't so smart:
Memo to US Secret Service

It looks like a flashing news story is breaking care of Michelle Makin and Ben Smith from politico.

quote:Michelle Malkin posts a reader's very plausible, if unconfirmed, account of exactly how a hacker got into Palin's account, a feat which seems to have required patience at guessing and deducing security questions, but no particular tech savvy.

From what appears to be the hacker's own recounting:

Earlier it was just some prank to me, I really wanted to get something incriminating which I was sure there would be, just like all of you anon out there that you think there was some missed opportunity of glory, well there WAS NOTHING, I read everything, every little blackberry confirmation… all the pictures, and there was nothing, and it finally set in, THIS internet was serious business, yes I was behind a proxy, only one, if this sh**ever got to the FBI I was f***ed


Ben's Blog (This links to the full Malkin Blog)

And now apparently readers from Malkin and Little Green Footballs are saying that the guy is the 20 year old son of a Democratic senator from Tennessee.
edited to add: Tenneesee News Story on State Reps comments

I think maybe we can see where this may be going.
The comments sections are already screaming, "Obama did it. He organized it. We demand a full inquiry! Emailgate emailgate! Only evil liberals would stoop this low.."

Fox and Drudge are already on the case.

This one is very smelly no matter how you look at it.

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
Oh and the whole dumb thing about this is was that it doesn't appear to be some super technical hack from super geek genius.
From the description the guy just stuck in her zip code and figured out the answer to her security question. 'Wasilia High'. In answer to the question...'So where did you meet your husband?" Or something like that. Yep super hacker genius needed for that.
It will be interesting to see if this goes any further. Drudge is trying to push it, along the 'it's Obama meme' but I can also seriously see it coming back and biting them in the butt. I don't agree with the break in, but for petes sake, doing government business on a yahoo account where any semi intelligent person could reset the password with some basic personal knowledge? Holy heck.

Ken Burch
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Joined: Feb 26 2005
As an Alaskan who isn't on a major-party ticket this year, I'd like to say I can see a house from my house.

And I could crossdress a moose(if I got it drunk enough, that is.)


al-Qa'bong
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Joined: Feb 27 2003
quote:Originally posted by ElizaQ:
And then if you want to get even stranger. This is beginning to make the rounds today.

Palin, the Pastor, Prayer and for added 'wow' add some 'witches' into it.

[ 17 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

OK, now I'm looking forward to a McCain/Palin presidency. She consulted with someone who literally led a "witch hunt." This is great. I'm looking forward to their Supreme Court nominations.

My personal soothsayer told me the Supreme Court deliberations would sound like this:

Those thousands of inmates waiting on death row for their lethal injection ought to worry though, what with the proposed adoption of crucifixion as the new means of dealing with sin and criminality.


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
You know I think if she had been properly vetted before hand, a lot of these videos that have been resting in the bowels of the internet just wouldn't be there anymore. No clean-up was done. It's the video stuff that's pretty damning. Hard to fake that. I would have had a very hard time believing that story if its was just words. It's nutty.

munroe
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Joined: Jun 10 2007
Originally posted by Ken Burch:

And I could crossdress a moose

Hmmm,,, can you have a survivor take and post a video on Youtube...
please


josh
Online
Joined: Aug 5 2002
quote:

And now apparently readers from Malkin and Little Green Footballs are saying that the guy is the 20 year old son of a Democratic senator from Tennessee.
edited to add: Tenneesee News Story on State Reps comments


Not a U.S. senator, but a state rep.


ElizaQ
Offline
Joined: May 27 2005
quote:Originally posted by josh:

Not a U.S. senator, but a state rep.

Cool thanks for the correction. I think though in the eyes of those that are glittering with scandal, it's the 'Democrat' part that has the sirens going off.
Meanwhile 'anonymous' has launched or is attempting to launch and internet attack against Fox. They're pissed off cause Bill O'Reilly called them 'leftists' in one of his diatribes last night.

I swear if I was writing fiction I couldn't make this stuff up.


DrConway
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Joined: May 6 2001
PS, re the investigation of Palin...

Stonewalling witnesses may stall Palin probe until after U.S. election

quote:ANCHORAGE, Alaska - A key legislator says unco-operative witnesses are stalling the investigation into Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin - delays that could last until after the U.S. elections.

Senator Bill Wielechowski, a Democrat from Anchorage, says subpoenaed witnesses who are refusing to testify can continue to do so for months without penalty. Wielechowski, a member of the panel that summoned the witnesses, says court actions to force the witnesses to appear are unlikely.

How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
quote:Originally posted by DrConway:
PS, re the investigation of Palin...

Stonewalling witnesses may stall Palin probe until after U.S. election

How conveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenient.

Yeah this is starting to get big. It was headlining on CNN every 10 mins or so.

Palin's Husban Won't Testify

quote: ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband won't comply with a subpoena issued by state lawmakers who are investigating her firing of Alaska's public safety commissioner, the McCain-Palin campaign said Thursday.

Gov. Sarah Palin has refused to cooperate with an inquiry into the firing of her public safety commissioner.

A state Senate committee is scheduled to meet Friday to take statements from the 12 people they subpoenaed last week, including Todd Palin.

But campaign operatives have spent a week assailing the investigation as "tainted" by partisan politics since the governor became the Republican vice presidential nominee.

Campaign spokeswoman Maria Comella said Todd Palin would not face a "fair hearing" before the committee. The governor argues that the state Personnel Board is the proper forum to investigate her July firing of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan.

Sarah Palin's aides said she will not comply with subpoenas, either, because the governor has "declined to participate" in the inquiry, Alaska's attorney general said Wednesday.


Meanwhile the Spain issue seems to be getting bigger and Spains angry. It's also apparently causing some noise from Hispanics and Latinos in the south. Trying to find a good link to a story. It's just on blogs right now so maybe nothing has been written yet.

And on a more amusing note. In an campaign stop in Cedar Rapids today it became the "Palin/McCain" administration according to Palin and the crowd chants.
Cedar Rapids


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
This is going totally viral and gets my vote as one of the most creative ways of protest/campaigning that I've come across.

quote:Make a donation to Planned Parenthood IN HONOR of Sarah Palin. When you make a donation to PP (secure site) in her name, they’ll send her a card stating the donation was made in her honor. (Not that I’m into avian homicide, but this is like killing two birds w/ one stone: it financially supports beleaguered PP and protests the threat to female rights by one of our own.

Here’s the link to Planned Parenthood’s website:
http://www.plannedparenthood.org

Open ‘Donate’. Click ‘Honorary or Memorial Donations’. Fill in your info and donation, then scroll down to ‘I would like to give to’: fill
in ‘Sarah Palin’ and use the McCain campaign headquarters address:
1235 S. Clark Street
1st Floor
Arlington, VA 22202


ElizaQ
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Joined: May 27 2005
Cedar Rapids seems to have been quite a day for the pair.
Now they're campaigning for Obama too.

quote:Palin's transparency proposal already exists in D.C.

Sarah Palin says she will bring the same kind of transparency she brought to Alaska to Washington, D.C..
Sarah Palin says she will bring the same kind of transparency she brought to Alaska to Washington, D.C..

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) – Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she “put the government checkbook online” in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington.

“We’re going to do a few new things also,” she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. “For instance, as Alaska’s governor, I put the government’s checkbook online so that people can see where their money’s going. We’ll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We’re going to bring that back to D.C.”

There’s just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online – somebody’s already done it. His name is Barack Obama.

Link

I guess transparency and accountability only matter in Washington and not backwater places like Alaska where ethics inquiries are going on.


I should be trying to post news of what the other guys are up too, but they two seem to be the top headline getters right now. Maybe they're going for a sort of 'all publicity is good publicity' strategy? [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]


Willowdale Wizard
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Joined: Jan 31 2003
The American Scene

quote: As everyone who reads this blog regularly knows, I responded pretty enthusiastically to the Palin nomination in its first minutes. And, honestly, I didn’t know that much about her. But what I knew, I liked.

[...]

Pretty much everything she has said or done since her appearance on the national stage – beginning with her acceptance speech – has soured me on her. It’s decreasingly plausible to me that she’s who I thought she was when she was nominated. Based on her performance on the campaign trail so far, she’s a shallow and demagogic politician. And if, on the off chance, that’s not who she is, then it’s instructive that the McCain campaign seems to be eager to have her play this particular character.


josh
Online
Joined: Aug 5 2002
quote:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's husband won't comply with a subpoena issued by state lawmakers investigating her firing of Alaska's public safety commissioner, the McCain-Palin campaign said Thursday.

A state Senate committee is scheduled to meet Friday to take statements from the 12 people they subpoenaed last week, including Todd Palin. But McCain-Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella said Todd Palin would not face a "fair hearing" before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

. . . .

One Judiciary Committee member said lawmakers would have little recourse if witnesses refused to comply with the subpoenas. Only the full Senate, which does not reconvene until January, can vote to hold them in contempt, state Sen. Bill Wielechowski said.

"It appears that the McCain campaign is now very heavily involved in this, and they're attempting to stonewall the investigation," Wielechowski, a Democrat, said just before Thursday's announcement.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/18/palin.investigation/index.html

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: josh ]


Polunatic2
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Joined: Mar 12 2006
Given the new FISA rules which allows the FBI, CIA and any other government agency to "tap" anyone's emails (without a warrant), what's the big deal? Palin has nothing to worry about if she did nothing wrong.

ElizaQ
Offline
Joined: May 27 2005
Why offshore Drilling is Good for Us -

quote:Yesterday in his town hall meeting with Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK), Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) advocated offshore oil drilling by pushing three myths: 1) Hurricanes won’t damage oil rigs, 2) Fish love oil rigs, and 3) Cuba is allowing China to drill near the U.S. coast:

McCAIN: An oil rig off of the Louisiana coast. It survived hurricanes. It is safe, it is sound, and to somehow —

And by the way, on that oil rig — and I’m sure you’ve probably heard this story — you look down, and there’s fish everywhere! There’s fish everywhere! Yeah, the fish love to be around those rigs. So not only can it be helpful for energy, it can be helpful for some pretty good meals as well. […]

As far as China and Cuba are concerned, we continue to hear that there is negotiations or conversations or — I’m not exactly sure what the state of play is, but it’s not a healthy thing, obviously.


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