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Recording Conversations
September 8, 2008 - 5:01pm
a) If the other party asks me if he/she is being recorded, am I obligated to tell them?
b) If I lied to them and said no, can I still use the recording?
c) Is the law any different when the other party is your lawyer?
Thank you very much.
Thats just Canada, in the states it depends on the individual state
http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=001069
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=320423
http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.183.1.html
Again, thank you for your reply.
The case was about recording a conversation covertly - in a public place, in California.
The jury (or judge, it's been a while) found that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place. So that the incident was not "actionable".
The point being that the incident was treated differently because it occurred in a public place, not in a private telephone conversation.
The conversation that I taped was in my lawyer's office, which is obviously not a public place. However, this is Canada, which, as I understand, is a one party state. Am I wrong? Thank you.
Is Canada a one-party state? Since there are virtually no policy differences between the Conservatives and the Liberals, then yes, I guess you could say that's what Canada is.
Somehow I'm not sure that's where you're coming from though. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
In case you're leaving soon, I just want to say something nice: Love your handle!
LOL I must say that I am quite fond of my handle, too. Had it for years. Got it from Black Adder. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
I guess, to simplify my question, I'll have to ask this: Can I use a taped recording I have between myself and my lawyer, even though she didn't know I was taping? And no, she didn't ask whether she was being taped. I was just curious.
Oh, and why is your spidey sense tingling? [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
That would likely depend on what your using it for. If it's something legal consult an attorney.
If it's for something else 'public' be aware of defamation laws.
Beyond that, without knowing exactly what it is and not sure I want to know, it's difficult to give a definate answer.
It pertains to her fees. That's all.
For example, uttering a threat isn't actionable by the police unless it is recorded. So if someone calls you up to threaten you, and you're obligated to tell them you're recording, you're not going to get your evidence for the police and the person making the threat might be very serious (although some idiots have left threats on answering machines).
Likewise, what does the hidden camera of a reporter do if not, besides recording pictures, recording voices?
But don't take my word for it. Google is your fair weather friend:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=320423
Even if that someone is your lawyer, right? That is mostly my concern. Thank you for replying, btw. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
There's nothing legal that says lawyers are exempt from the law. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
The only thing I could see there possibly be a problem is if you signed some sort of document before you spoke with them and in the fine print it says, "And thou shalt not record our conversations without my consent" I jest some, but you know how lawyers are. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
If it's a private matter say a dispute about fees where the recording is some sort of proof of funny business then legal I can't see a problem. Might be kinda nasty though. I had a dispute with a smarmy boss once which came to the point where a couple of us were planning on recording what he was actually telling us in order to prove to his boss what he was doing. He ended up being fired suddenly for an entirely different matter so we didn't actually do it. Would have had no problem doing it though.
If it is a dispute that you intend to make public then I'd be more careful about potentially having them come back at you for defamation.
Even if.
Thank you and FM. Don't know if you lot really want to know this but, the whole matter is about her reneging on a verbal agreement we had on her fees. She now conveniently does not recall the conversation. Luckily, I taped it. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
As for making it public, I have no desire to do so. Therefore, if you guys want to hear it, tough! [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Maybe the more pertinent question is whether she is legally bound to adhere to the verbal agreement she made with you.
Not sure what the repeated references to Canada being a "one-party state" have to do with anything.
It's a technical term used to describe the type of consent needed. Nothing to do with politics or political systems.
A two-party state needs bother parties consent to be legal.
The recording was not made at the initial consultation. And no, she was reluctant to put it in writing, for what is now obvious reasons.
You need to complain to the law society in the province if you think there is a problem. Your relationship was covered by solicitor client privilege which means she can't say anything about your conversations but you are free to say what you want, subject to defamation laws.
As far as I know, it is. Not sure about loopholes and such, though.
I know for a fact that she has talked about my case with someone else, but I can't prove it. She is very careful and arrogant.
Defamation laws only apply if I lie, right? Like if I say to someone that my lawyer lied to me when she didn't?
Does someone out there have the answers to my initial questions, in the first post? Thank you.
Just because it's not a crime under s. 184 of the Criminal Code (assuming you are not recording something obscene) does not make it legal in all other senses.
For example, if someone asks if you are recording them, you lie, and they rely on your lie, will you be estopped from using the fraudulently obtained recording? Perhaps so. Especially if it is someone to whom you owe a duty of good faith.
So, what you're saying is, you're not sure?
[img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
"While I understand that one can record a conversation with another party as long as one has knowledge and/or consents to it, I have the following questions:
a) If the other party asks me if he/she is being recorded, am I obligated to tell them?
b) If I lied to them and said no, can I still use the recording?
c) Is the law any different when the other party is your lawyer?
Thank you very much."
I would very much appreciate it. Thank you in advance. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Really? So if you ask a paid police informant if he is recording a conversation and he lies, that is illegal? Somehow I don't think so.
But *sigh* I can't remember the freakin' details.
The upshot was though that a person who felt he was missrepresented by his lawyer (or, it could have been a group) decided to go the private prosecution route instead of complaining to the Law Society of Upper Canada.
Does this ring a bell with anyone? It might be instructive to the Count, and, I wouldn't mind trying to find out where that all sits at the moment.
Just did some googling, but nothing that came up rang a bell.
[ 04 October 2008: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]
I once was in an unpleasant situation with a lawyer handling my mother-in-law's estate. He attempted to charge both legal fees and the bulk of the executor fees, even though we did all of the executor-type work.
The Law Society couldn't care less. But we had another lawyer (senior partner at a respected firm, a Q.C.) write to the first lawyer and he turned him around in a hurry. It's a shame when professionals treat other professionals better than they treat their clients but that is often the way it is.
As for the Count's problem, I'd suggest him telling his lawyer what he's got on tape. That should resolve the problem in a hurry.
Oh, I've told her and, it wasn't until then that she did her job properly. Sad.....
Anyway, I still don't have the answer to my initial question. I'm just curious. Thank you.
I'd be careful on two counts: If you mean use in a legal sense-- it may be considered unethical and that in itself does not mean illegal since one party to the conversation -- you-- consented. The problem is that a lawyer in the form of a judge is going to pass judgment over you and the fact that you recorded a lawyer without agreement may be a big negative. On the other hand you could quote and only pull it out if/once the lawyer denied it and then that would be to prove essentially perjury -- something courts especially don't want to see from lawyers.
The second reason for caution is more complicated. Lawyer-client conversations are privileged. There are many cases where people have wanted to use somethign but once they open the door they cannot control what else walks through that-- there could be other prejudicial stuff in there you don't want out yet the court could decide -- well you opened the door. So be careful of the context.