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Getting my A, B, and C's - Have multivitamins become a basic food group?

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Farmpunk
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Joined: Jul 25 2006
I'm with Sineed. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough. I wasn't slamming vegans\vegetarians.

The problem I have is when people complain about food and then turn their noses up at what's availible. If a person commits themselves to a local diet (and they should), then they are going to have to become less persnickity about what they eat. Simple as that. Know what grows in your region and start forming your food choices there.


Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004
That I can understand, as well as try to do. For instance, I'm more than willing to pay more money for locally grown food, and go out of my way to look for it as well. Now if only we could get the grocery stores to start stalking more local foods.

Sineed
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Joined: Dec 4 2005
Yeah, I try to buy locally when I can, too. If enough of us do this, stores will be motivated to stock local produce out of economic self-interest.

Doesn't it bug you when at the height of apple season, next to all the gorgeous Ontario apples, supermarkets will have huge bins of apples from, say, China? I'm trying to educate my kids to see what's wrong with this. Maybe local food producers could go into the schools and talk to the kids, like the way the schools bring in policemen and firemen to talk about safety. And kids can learn about the economic and environmental costs of transporting food long distances, for instance.


500_Apples
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Joined: Jun 3 2006
Hey,

Can someone suggest a link to an eating locally for dummies article, benefits and such? It doesn't strike me as self-evident that it's necessarily bad for fruits to come from california, florida... the only argument I can think is that invasive species destroy local ecosystems.

What do local eaters do for fruits/vegetables in the winter? Relatively local foods like stuff from latin america?

Thanks.


oreobw
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Joined: Jan 13 2007
Local stores do carry lots of local stuff during season (in my area of Toronto).

But it is hard to find local green vegs,tomatoes, etc in February. Also, local orange juice in Ontario?

So what's wrong with Florida orange juice.

Actually, I have the feeling I might be missing the point here, but for most stuff (food and otherwise) I try to buy local, and if I can't then US then elsewhere.

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: oreobw ]


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
quote:Originally posted by 500_Apples:
It doesn't strike me as self-evident that it's necessarily bad for fruits to come from california, florida... the only argument I can think is that invasive species destroy local ecosystems.

Anything's possible when political conservatives are running the show. There's been tainted spinach from California to dirty water in Walkerton and Kashechewan.

Timeline: E. coli contamination in Canada

Even though food supply is a top priority for every civilization since time immemorial, Canada subsidizes its farmers the least among developed nations. And after the most idiotic free trade agreements in the history of the world were signed, our food regulations and health standards will suffer by integration with the world's most wasteful and dangerous economy to the south of us.


Farmpunk
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Joined: Jul 25 2006
The idea is that a person should attempt to eat the food of your region, that CAN be grown locally, ahead of anything else, year round. I know the Ontario market best, so that's where I'll place my examples.

Winter\February veggie eating, and what should be availible "fresh": sweet potatoes, cabbage of different types and hues, potatoes, carrots, onions, squash... Roots crops, easily stored, likely with little refridgeration. I grow and eat a long storage cabbage that gets as big as bowling balls and keeps for six months or better. The outside layers might get mucky but they peel off easily. I also eat my own red onions until spring. I should grow my own carrots and sweet potatoes, and potatoes, but don't. I do freeze and preserve all kinds of food that isn't locally availible in the winter. Making preserves is a lost art, and it's very simple.

I do not buy hot house tomatoes. They taste like shit, for one thing, in comparison to the real outdoor deal, and growing tomatoes in a greenhouse in the winter does not make sense to me.

Eat locally, eat seasonally, buy whole foods. In southern Ontario, we are, weather permitting, only a couple months away from asparagus season. Follow the natural cycles of what's growing in your backyard (literally, or locally) and you'll be very surprised at the variety.

The reasons why people should concentrate on these types of eating patterns is simple, when you think about it. Suffice it to say, for now, that the Cali produce in our grocery stores (or the Washington state apples that drive me insane) are sold at a cost that does not reflec the true cost of getting that item into your grocery bag. If you're on the west coast, Cali produce makes sense. Cali produce in Toronto does not.

Of course, that's just vegetables. In a true seasonal, local arrangement, a lot of nutrition would come from meat. Wintertime being the slaughter season for pork and beef. But, as the original post reminds us, there's often times not a lot of nutrition in the food we eat. A problem I believe is exaggerated in meat production.


500_Apples
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Joined: Jun 3 2006
quote: The reasons why people should concentrate on these types of eating patterns is simple, when you think about it. Suffice it to say, for now, that the Cali produce in our grocery stores (or the Washington state apples that drive me insane) are sold at a cost that does not reflec the true cost of getting that item into your grocery bag. If you're on the west coast, Cali produce makes sense. Cali produce in Toronto does not.

Why is the cost of Cali produce so low?

Ignorant answer: Probably agriculture is an easier profession in California. I mean, it's california, so I really doubt it's cheap wages. Are pesticides subsidized in California?

I'm not trying to argue anything, just trying to know what's going on.


Farmpunk
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Joined: Jul 25 2006
500-A,

Labour not cheap in Cali? Not to be an enourmous dick, but you have to be kidding. Big agriculture, including the organic operations, in Cali is based almost entirely upon the modern day version of slave labour in the US: illegal Mexicans.

Even grown in Ontario produce is subject to a version of this. The migrant worker programs. 20 thousand of them in ag last year, I believe, with many more coming to many industries across the board very soon. Who's outsmarting whom here?

US ag is subsidized, across the board, and is likely tied in with trucking-shipping business. Only so much mixed lettuce can fit into a transport. How much does it cost to get that produce to Toronto, say, or Montreal, in diesel alone? Not counting the cost of the driver's salary? Plus the basic production cost of the produce itself.


500_Apples
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Joined: Jun 3 2006
When I said cheap I meant cheap like in China, which is slowly eradicating any manufacturing in north america because they can be that much cheaper than here. I don't see them being much cheaper than Ontario workers unless mexican workers get paid below minimum wage.

Your point about higher US subsidies for agriculture is more obvious, I'm surprised I forgot about that one. That means all things being equal american produce would still be cheaper. Are you taking a moral stand against taking advantage of the american taxpayer's spending decisions?

Again - I'm really not trying to argue. I'm sure these are elementary questions and can be answered by anyone intelligent who does local eating and has spent more than 15 minutes thinking about it.


Farmpunk
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Joined: Jul 25 2006
F-A, in the end I suspect there is a lot of reasons why Cali produce turns up in Ontario supermarkets. The reasons stretch from the consumer to the government policies to the production methods. There are no easy answers. But the easiest answer I can give anyone is to simply think about what they're consuming, where it comes from, why they're eating it. Local and seasonal is a step beyond that idea which I'm not sure many people are going to follow, or give merit to.

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
It's strange that U.S. Conservatives don't believe in exposing their own farmers and agribusinesses to the dictates of global markets. But the IMF and WB demand that developing economies open their markets to cheap American produce subsidized by big government and cheap migrant labour. I guess political conservatives preach free markets to poor countries but prefer socialism at home.

Farmpunk
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Joined: Jul 25 2006
Do we have a free market or a controlled market? As far as agriculture goes, I wish I knew.

Southlander
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Joined: Sep 22 2005
quote:Originally posted by Farmpunk:
Do we have a free market or a controlled market? As far as agriculture goes, I wish I knew.

As soon as you bring in a minumum wage you have a controlled market. Then you need import restrictions to keep out cheap imports from a country with lower minumum wages. Then we have exceptions to keep trading partners and leftward leaning foreign leaders happy. Next farmers need income support. Then markets are flooded so we have production controls. Then we need quotas to stop big business getting rich. Then excess production is dumped cheaply overseas (sometimes free and called 'aid'), putting subsistance farmers overseas out of business.

Free markets don't exist in 'civilised' western countries.


biker
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Joined: Feb 24 2007
There are many good Canadian made multivitamins (Prairie Naturals, Trophic, Flora, Natural Factors) on the market available at natural food stores. Choose a medium dose(maximum 25 mg. of B vitamins) multi without iron. Take it with meals once or twice a day. Men do not need supplemental iron and women only need iron if blood tests show they do. If a woman needs iron it should be taken on its own away from other supplements. Stargazer has a good recipe for a morning shake that's better than simply adding a pill.

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
I found this listing of The Top 10 Healthiest Foods interesting. I have a good size veggie garden with three items growing from the list: garlic, spinach, and tomatoes (it's not been a good growing season so far, however).

I can only get canned salmon here, although starting this week the fishermen are bringing in fresh caught cod.

I'd love to grow berries, and will go through the bush and try and transplant wild varieties of blueberries and raspberries.


Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
On another tangent, and because I don't know exactly where to put this, someone's advertising a disgusting-looking "Angus Burger" on teevee, and looking at that awful greasy thing is enough to put me off meat for a week. It's about as bad as anything from Carl's Jr. south of the border.

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
Oh, and I discovered transplanting berries from the wild doesn't work well here. [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Vitamin C research called "hog wash" Gifford-Jones

Quote:
Fact No. 1-- Dr. Linus Pauling, two-time Nobel Prize winner reported that humans, unlike animals, do not produce vitamin C. Vitamin C is needed to manufacture collagen, the mortar that holds cells together. Without good collagen, coronary artery vessels develop stress fractures and set the stage for fatal blood clots. Just like buildings collapse with faulty mortar.

Fact No. 2-- Dr. William Stebhens, professor of pathology at Wellington University in New Zealand, agreed that Pauling was right. That it was mechanical stress on coronary arteries that triggered heart attack.

Fact No. 3 -- Researchers at Ulleval University Hospital in Norway reported a study that vitamin C in fruits and berries was associated with decreased atherosclerosis in carotid arteries. So if small amounts of vitamin C decrease hardening of arteries, what would larger amounts do?

Fact No. 4-- Dr. Sydney Bush, a distinguished professor of optometry in England, took pictures of retinal arteries, prescribed large doses of vitamin C and a year later took more photos. The latter showed that high doses of vitamin C, along with the amino acid lysine, reversed hardening of arteries.

Fact No. 5 -- Critics should reflect on why humans get heart attacks and animals do not. Goats manufacture 13,000 mg of C daily and increase it to 100,000 mg if ill. Yet health authorities claim humans only need 60 mg daily! This amount keeps us from getting scurvy, but does not protect us from heart attack.


Stargazer
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Joined: Jun 9 2004

Sineed wrote:
I've heard about foods losing their nutrients and personally take a multivitamin. Taking large doses of any one vitamin to treat disease is more scientifically dubious. Women should have more iron and calcium due to blood loss and their higher risk for osteoporosis, respectively.

Though if foods have gotten less nutritious over the last 50 years, why are kids bigger than ever? I don't mean obesity; I mean height. Seems commonplace these days for teenage boys to be well over six feet.

 

Good question Sineed. Why are young females developing earlier than ever? Why are they getting bigger (not heavier)? I am convinced it is because of the growth hormones that are pumped into factory farm animals - cows, chickens, pigs, etc... There have been studies on this.

 

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/Factsheet/Diet/fs37.hormones.cfm


500_Apples
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Joined: Jun 3 2006

Stargazer wrote:

Sineed wrote:
I've heard about foods losing their nutrients and personally take a multivitamin. Taking large doses of any one vitamin to treat disease is more scientifically dubious. Women should have more iron and calcium due to blood loss and their higher risk for osteoporosis, respectively.

Though if foods have gotten less nutritious over the last 50 years, why are kids bigger than ever? I don't mean obesity; I mean height. Seems commonplace these days for teenage boys to be well over six feet.

 

Good question Sineed. Why are young females developing earlier than ever? Why are they getting bigger (not heavier)? I am convinced it is because of the growth hormones that are pumped into factory farm animals - cows, chickens, pigs, etc... There have been studies on this.

 

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/Factsheet/Diet/fs37.hormones.cfm

I wonder if it's only that.

Back when I took history in high school, teachers would often make the [snarky imo] comment that using lead for cutlery contributed to the decline of the Roman Empire.

What will they say about us in 500 years?

[In Chinese] "Part of what ended the British American age was the pollution of abiotic chemicals, tobacco, carbon combustion exhausts, endocrine disruptors of various kinds, mercury, high fructose corn syrup..."

Maybe that history teacher will be speaking for a very long time. Then a 14 year old will raise his hand and ask "How could they be so stupid? Weren't they advanced enough to develop the hydrogen bomb?"


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

And as economic historian Michael Hudson might say, Chinese historians a millenia from now will point to all kinds of reasons for the decline of Anglo-American empire except those reasons identified by empire historians themselves, which was geometrically increasing debt and usury.


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