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Muslim girl ejected from tournament - II
April 15, 2007 - 4:34pm
This thread is continued from HERE.
It's not the religion that fails them, but it's the 2 opposite societies that fails them be it Iran etc and Canada. 2 different thinking people producing the same end result. [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 16 April 2007: Message edited by: Blind_Patriot ]
May the "ethnics and money" (quote by Parizeau) and immigrants and anglos fight for their rights when certain people want to take it away from them.
May these girls fight the power and demand to be treated like equals here.
[ 16 April 2007: Message edited by: mary123 ]
If scarves are so dangerous, what about those sharp, pointy crucifixes worn by many Catholics?
A thought... would demanding a woman to take off the hijab at a soccer game be sexual harassment?
There should be no hijabs like there should be no earrings (or any piercing) like there should be no crucifixes. If these referees disallowed the hijabs but they allow piercings, then they're a bunch of racists, otherwise, they're following safety instructions. The practice of this great Korean sport in a sanctioned manner is a privelege given to us by the world governing body. Our options are two-fold: respect their rules, or not have the sport in a sanctioned manner.
Tae Kwon Do is primarily kicking, with some punching. How would a hijab cause any problem for kicking and punching that could not also be caused by having other clothing, or hair? There is no "grabbing and strangling" component that I know of, and if anything like that were to occur, the referee must intervene, just as s/he would in the case of hair-pulling or crotch-punching.
So what is the safety issue here?
Poeple with racist forms of thinking always have one reason or another to justify their opinions...
Look if the it truely was a safty concern Im sure the parents would not let their children play the sport to begin with...
Wearing a hijab while competing in Tae KWan Doe is even less of a "safety issue" than the similar soccer incident. In Martial Arts, there isn't any high speed running that could end up in strangulation, which is rather tenuous even in soccer. I have no idea what "safety issue" you're talking about.
The referee refused the hijab not because it was listed as unsafe, but because it wasn't listed as acceptable non-uniform clothing. Why they couldn't have added a headscarf is beyond me.
I fail to see how a hijab could be a safety hazard in either soccer or tae-kwon-do. Both are very physical sports... surely the "danger" created by a piece of cloth pales in comparison with other dangers.
While I've played neither competitive soccer nor Tae Kwon Do, I rely on the opinions of friends who have. My friends and acquaintances who are experienced in these sports (either as participants or referees) disagree with your assessment on safety.
Anyhow, you may be right about the rules. But if the rules suck our human rights code have no power to change them. They're set by the world governing body. Either we follow the rules or we abandon the sport.
A good analogy would be that helicopter agreemant from a few months ago, we had the choice of either agreeing to American manufacturing regulations or surrendering the contract. What was your position then Catchfire? Actually, that analogy was somewhat different, because in that case the american regulations were clearly racist. Here, it may simply be an oversight - I presume the world governing body is in Korea and that there are not many Muslims there.
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My suggestion would be a moratorium on hijabs for the time being, with a short discussion among those who actually know the sport - not armchair black belts - about whether or not the safety issue is valid. If it's not, they should petition to the world governing body to ask for a rule exemption. I honestly believe that the world governing body should be sensible about this. Canada should take up the issue and petition jointly with middle eastern countries if need be.
[ 16 April 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]
Quebec has these periodic eruptions of xenophobia, hence the reoccurring Kirpan and turban controversy for Sikhs and only slightly veiled hostility towards Hasidic Jews.
Given the media concentration in Quebec, these sentiments get amplified by irresponsible journalism that emboldens opponents of so-called "reasonable accommodation".
Looking at it another way, scantily clad women and overweight men in speedos is just fine as representing the mainstream of Quebec's wardrobe.
Modesty and good taste will not be tolerated!
[ 17 April 2007: Message edited by: ceti ]
In fact, not even the referees mention a safety issue, just that "it could come loose" and that "The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn’t include the hijab." I have my own experience in TKD tournaments, but I am eager to hear what your friends have to say about the matter. You do know that they where helmets over their hijabs, right?
Look, there are more than two options in the world. Another option might be to work to change a rule that you feel is unfair.
And why would you "abandon the sport" because you don't like some rule from some far-off organization? You might boycott or picket an event that is applying the rule that you feel is unfair, and support (or organize) events that you feel are fair. If FIDE or the Chess Federation of Canada does something stupid, should I quit playing chess? A national or international sporting federation does not "own" the sport.
By your kind of logic, blacks would never have played baseball in the Major Leagues, because they were excluded by rules and practices that they had no power to change. Oh, well, I guess they should have caved in and given up the sport completely.
[ 17 April 2007: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]
http://www.puaf.umd.edu/IPPP/fall98/convention_and_competence.htm
So, the International Tae Kwon Doh Association can either conform to Canadian law, or let TKD enthusiasts here set up another, non-discriminatory body, and pay their dues to it.
I love your oh so subtle effort to shut down this debate for whatever reasons.
This is a general discussion forum where people discuss issues whether they have a PH.D or high school education. I don't appreciate your elitist attitude to shut down this debate whenever you and others like you don't like the way a discussion is going. Nice try. We can discuss this issue til the cows come home if that's what we want. You're welcome to leave if you don't like the way things are going.
[ 17 April 2007: Message edited by: mary123 ]
Yeah, I hear that quite some time ago a guy died on one of those!
hahahahahhahahahahahaha
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=85a7b5db-350a-47 ac-9fdd-559bc5c7e970&k=82687
[ 29 April 2007: Message edited by: mary123 ]
More like "That's how they may do it in other countries, but here we are assholes."
What a disgrace.
However, what if it were focused on culture? TaeKwanDo is an Asian martial art that comes with a cultural package that may well include a prescribed dress and accouterments. If so, in the interest of multi-culturalism does the art have a right to protect its culture?
Multiculturalism isn't really germaine to the issue at hand as the Tae Kwan Do federation doesn't take issue with the hijab.
Even if it is a rule that is what is called systemic discrimination i.e. if a rule has one purpose but it also causes discrimination then it is the discrimination that needs to be rectified. Think of the women firefighters case involving Tawney Meiorin. The rule itself must be necesary and apparently it doesn't appear to be.
This head scarf shit really bothers me. When I was a young fellow in the 50's and 60's we had immigrants from Eastern Europe in many places in Canada and expecially where I grew up. My recollection is all the older women from those cultures as well as older Italian women always wore head scarves in public because[horror of horrors] they thought it immodest to be in public with uncovered hair. Also I believe Catholic women still wear something on their head when in church for exactly the same reason.
Go figure eh?
I played a bit of rugby in university and saw people tossed off the field, or not allowed on the field for all manner of reasons I thought were, at the very least, spurious and unnecessary.
When I complained I was told that the ref rules the field. Even if all my friends agreed with me, the federation has complete faith in the official and for him to be overturned would be earthshaking.
This does not deal with whether the decision is or was about multiculturalism or anything else - it went directly to the authority of the official.
Would you support without qualification people who wished to participate in activities in a culture in dress deemed inappropriate by that culture?
Would you support those of various religious and other groups that demand to be integrated into activities, like worship, that culturally are mandated to be separate, thus discriminatory?