babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Boisclair's big gaffe
March 15, 2007 - 5:39am
Globe and Mail
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: Joel_Goldenberg ]
I actually first heard about it on the radio this morning.
As far as I can tell, Le Devoir did not report the comments at all, but concentrated on Boisclair's rallying call to separatists. I would love verification of this "gaffe."
K, whatever. He's making a description. Most Canadians if they went to a US city, would be surprised at how many blacks and hispanics there are. When judging whether or not someone is a racist asshole, try and make an effort to gauge their intentions rather than judging them based on your local definitions of political corectness. These definitions, I might add, likely they don't apply in another jusisdiction where the vocabulary is different. His intention here, I believe, is to point out how much more worldly higher education is than one might get the impression of from Quebec universities. And by the way, I'm not a fan of Boisclair. I just think it's lame to attack him on strawmen of political corectness that are specific to the political language of English north america.
The perfect analogy: it's like if an ignorant person went to Zimbabwe, and said they were surprised to see so many people with really curly hair.
***
Though, however, I still think Boisclair is ignorant, not because he said slanted eyes instead of southeast asian, but because he was actually surprised by the fact there were so many asians on American campuses. It reminds me of a point from Pierre Trudeau's biography. When he went to Harvard, he was surprised that perfectly reasonable human beings could support the second world war effort.
What offends me, FWIW, is his neo-liberal globalization nonsense about how we have to be ready to "compete" with the clever amibitious young people of foreign lands.
Funny that some of the above posters don't find that notion offensive. Different world outlooks, I guess.
Didn't Prince Phillip make a mocking gesture a while ago by slanting his eyes? Seems that would be pretty offensive.
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: Joel_Goldenberg ]
Joel, three things:
1. There are people who have what some of us call "slanted eyes". This is not mockery. It's a fact. It's got to do with epicanthic folds, if memory serves.
2. I didn't understand Boisclair to have been mocking anyone. He didn't appear in blackface, for instance (which might have been the equivalent of what the Duke of Edinburgh did). And I still haven't seen the original French version of what he said, so I can't judge whether he used some offensive term (kinda doubt it) or just a descriptive one, like "students in wheelchairs".
3. What do you think of the point he was making (see my post above) - the one that I truly found offensive - that is, pitting our youth against the youth of emerging countries in Asia?
"They're not going to work in sweatshops. They're people who will later work as engineers, managers, and will create wealth. They're people who will innovate in their countries. There is ferocious competition in the world today."
... sounds comparatively benign, as if he is just stating a fact.
Sure it's a fact., but why use it in a speech? I don't know if one thing has anything to do with the other, but isn't Trois Riviиres close to Herouxville, and isn't the PQ trying to woo back potential ADQ votes from the region, the same ADQ whose party leader has made controversial statements about reasonable accommodation?
Actually, I was even more offended by Boisclair's reference to the "Eaton's fat English lady" quote.
'You didn't live through that," he is quoted as telling the students.
I don't think he did either, I think he's too young. Then again, maybe he can cite a personal incident. Or maybe it was just the sight of English on signs that incensed him.
You really don't get it, because you and I don't share the same view of the world. I am not in competition with the workers of other countries.
Well, according to the Globe article, he didn't say "fat" - you did. I know the apocryphal story you're talking about. Surely Boisclair is talking about a (thankfully long past) time when a French-speaking Quebecker could neither get a job at Eaton's nor be served in French.
What's offensive about that? It was the reality until the 1970s.
ETA: I did find a reference to the "fat lady" today, but not in Boisclair's speech - it was in an English-language Montrйal newspaper called The Suburban:
[emphasis added]Shame.
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
"The "fat, damned English lady" at the counter in Eaton's who was unable to speak French, became the symbol of every store clerk, bank teller, construction foreman, plant manager, or taxi driver who at some point insulted or humiliated a francophone by not speaking their language. "
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: Joel_Goldenberg ]
Here, I found it. "Grosses maudites anglaises" comes from an infamous speech by Liberal minister Pierre MacDonald in 1989:
CBC Archives
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
We cross-posted - see my post above - you're right.
If Boisclair's reference was to that, then he's a bigger asshole than I thought.
Anyway, he never had my vote!
ETA: Still, do you think it's appropriate for the Suburban to keep this alive??
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
"Dиs les premiers jours de la campagne de 1985, il йtait immйdiatement apparu que le vice-prйsident de la Banque de Montrйal, Pierre MacDonald, prйsentй comme une grande vedette du futur gouvernement Bourassa, йtait un sujet trиs prometteur.
Le jour de l'annonce de sa candidature dans Robert-Baldwin, il avait fait blкmir son chef en dйclarant sur un ton catйgorique qu'il йtait impossible pour un nouveau gouvernement de prйsenter un budget dix jours aprиs son йlection, comme M. Bourassa s'y йtait prйcisйment engagй. En pleine crise linguistique, il avait tout de mкme йtй assez йtonnant de le voir raviver le souvenir des «grosses maudites Anglaises de chez Eaton».grosses maudites Anglaises de chez Eaton
Ah, I see we cross-posted again. Oh well.. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: Joel_Goldenberg ]
That was an editorial from a fair while ago, I believe. But that quote has been bouncing around for years. Just a shame Boisclair has to revive it, at least in part, to create an "us versus them" attitude.
Actually, it's entitled "Opinion — Texas hold 'em Liberal-style", by Anthony Bonaparte, and given the content, it was written in the past few days. Can't really tell the date, because somehow the site puts "March 15, 2007" on everything...
On that - after some reflection - I must agree with you.
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
[ 15 March 2007: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]
At least Boisclair has managed to distract attention away from a much bigger potential scandal - the outlandish headgear he sported for his chamber of commerce speech:
Referring to Asians as people with "slanted eyes" is racist.
What an idiot.
But referring to them as "visible minorities" is not? Why don't you wait until you see what words he actually used? I haven't seen them quoted yet.
Robbie_Dee, the article describes Fo Niemi as being "of Asian heritage".
If that isn't stereotypical, I don't know what is!
That's like saying that I, you, Phil Fontaine, and Hugo Chavez, and Condoleezza Rice are of "American heritage".
As I've said elsewhere, all these terms (like "Muslim community") are used to negate people's national origins and dismissively conflate them into some "foreign" category.
Boisclair does it too, by suggesting that anyone of a certain appearance must be an immigrant.
All such terminology should be banned in polite discourse.
I agree it is a racist statement and like otheres I find it especially revealing that he would presume they were foreigners. I guess there aren't many CBC's (Canadian Born Chinese) in Quebec. However having said that in China people of European descent are regularily referred to as Round Eyes.