babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Maybe I just missed it somehow, but I don't believe I've seen a thread about the Don Imus controversy regarding his remarks torawrds the Rutgers women's basketball team.
Now, I don't really think that aspect needs much discussion. I think most reasonable people will see his comments as absolutely stupid and inappropriate.
But what I've been wondering is why, whenever there is a racial incident, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson always seem to end up as the lead spokesmen for the Black community and why the person who committed to the racially insensitive offense goes to THEM begging for forgiveness. Don Imus certainly should have apologized for what he said. But his first apology should have been to the women he personally insulted, not to Al Sharpton.
And I'm wondering how exactly Sharpton has ANY credibility when criticizing other people for inappropriate remarks. This is a guy who publicly and repeatedly accused an innocent man of raping a 15 year old woman. He was convicted in court of this. I don't know know about others, but I'd certainly rather be called a "nappy headed ho" than "a man who rapes 15 year olds". What Imus said was offensive. What Sharpton said was criminal. And yet he acts like he has such moral authority in taking Imus to task.
Jesse Jackson has led protests outside of the studio that boradcasts Imus. He's outraged by his offensive comments. Maybe he should picket himself, since this is the guy who referred to New York as "Hymie-town" and said that it was controlled by Jews and their money. This is the guy who used money that people had generously given to his tax-exempt charity foundation to pay hush-money to his mistress and mother of his illegitimate child. And this guy is gonna be so self-righteous because some radio DJ made offensive comments? Give me a break.
I'm not gonna defend waht Imus said. But I'm not gonna defend hypocrisy either and it seems like these guys are really out there trying to get publicity for themselves and exploiting this incident where accomplished young women were publicly insulted in order to further their own agendas.
No one knows what is up or down anymore, what about Rap music lyrics - among the most misogynistic to be found. Imus should be pilloried for his comments but I am inclined to agree that Sharpton and Jackson are not exactly beacons of righteousness.
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Whom: I'm not gonna defend waht Imus said. But I'm not gonna defend hypocrisy either and it seems like these guys are really out there trying to get publicity for themselves and exploiting this incident where accomplished young women were publicly insulted in order to further their own agendas.
And I'm wondering what repeating these tired right-wing talking points has to do with anti-racism? And I'm wondering what you might know about black folk and how they may or may not consider Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as leadership figures? And I'm wondering why an egregious public example of racism get twisted into yet another attack on public black figures, and again how does this fit into an anti-racist discourse?
quote:Originally posted by James: From CNN: "The only other people I want to talk to are these young women at the team, and then that's it," Imus said.
Let's hope that's so. Let's hope he is never heard in public again.
My guess? He ends up opening shop on satellite radio, like Howard Stern did.
quote:Originally posted by josh: Sharpton is a racial McCarthyite of the worst order.
Sure. That's what civil rights activists do - engage in powerful, paranoia-feulled witch hunts against innocent people, destroying lives right, left and centre. I agree that Rev. Sharpton has made some egregious errors in his time, but to compare him to Sen. Joe McArthy is offensive.
quote:Originally posted by James: From CNN: "The only other people I want to talk to are these young women at the team, and then that's it," Imus said.
Let's hope that's so. Let's hope he is never heard in public again.
Um, has anyone asked if they want to talk to him???. My guess is why the hell should they?
And Wilf, Rick's best line is not from him but from the Onion:
quote:Cut Imus some slack. The man is under immense pressure to be an asshole every morning.
Doesn't look like it was that hard for him.
As for the MLK and Sharpton bashing, let's cut that out, 'kay? The phrase "racial McCarthyite" is offensive, wrong and stupid on many levels, especially here in the AR forum.
quote:As for the MLK and Sharpton bashing, let's cut that out, 'kay?
Well I dont believe anyone was bashing MLK. And why would they - there arent really any allegations against him. Except I heard some far-right saying he was a Soviet-funded spy. Which sounds like bull, unless any socialist group = USSR.
BTW, that quote about Imus forced to be an asshole was funny.
i was surprised too at how long it took for a "Don Imus" thread to start up.
i like the idea of the women's basketball team challenging Imus (and Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Saveage, and Ann Coulter) to a simple one hour basketball game.
with no referees !
i think justice might be meted out in an informal and yet highly effective fashion.
Heck, I was wondering the same thing myself this morning. Why this pilgramage to Sharpton and Jackson whenever someone says something racist? It seems absurd to me.
I think Imus owed an appology to his audience, and to the girls on the basketball team. From there, he needs to retire and enjoy his millions, fading into obscurity.
I think Salutin's column on the Rabble homepage summed it up nicely. I'm part of an online community of sorts with mostly US based participants and we've recently had to expunge three formerly solid members/moderators from the deep south, and remove all their access to the server and IP ban software after it became apparent over time that they had a racial bias and were abusing their positions. All these racists operating throughout the diverse general public mediums will eventually hang themselves. They're already carrying around their own rope. Eventually they'll just end up preaching to the blissfully ignorant diehards who will be left on the decaying fringes with any luck, while the rest of humanity moves on. It just has to be confronted with no excuses when it rears its ugly head.
quote: Coach C. Vivian Stringer: "We, the Rutgers University Scarlet Knight basketball team, accept -- accept -- Mr. Imus' apology, and we are in the process of forgiving.
"We still find his statements to be unacceptable, and this is an experience that we will never forget.
"These comments are indicative of greater ills in our culture. It is not just Mr. Imus, and we hope that this will be and serve as a catalyst for change. Let us continue to work hard together to make this world a better place."
Maybe she should host a radio show.
Deirdre is encouraging everybody wanting to send hatemail to the team to send it to Don instead. Maybe she should get a radio show, too.
quote: The accident happened Thursday evening in Galloway Township near GSP mile marker 44.5, as the governor was heading to host the meeting between Don Imus and the Rutgers women's basketball team about Imus' racially charged remarks he uttered against team members.
On another note, I've read comments from Members of Congress, Barak Obama, Condoleeza Rice, Woopie Goldberg, Spike Lee ...
quote:"These comments are indicative of greater ills in our culture," Stringer said. "It is not just Mr. Imus, and we hope that this will be and serve as a catalyst for change. Let us continue to work hard together to make this world a better place."
Dag. Someone should really put a statement like this on a plaque somewhere.
Of course the whole point of the network's apology was to imply that everything else they broadcast is not racist and sexist. This was just a one-off aberration.
- inspired by something Rick Salutin once wrote in the Globe and Mail:
quote:The Shopping Channel exists to give the impression that the other channels have NOT become shopping channels. It's like retractions: they serve to make you think everything else in the newspaper was true.
quote: When I first read the news, "What the hell…?" was all I could muster. Blood rushed. My heart ached and I lamented for Black women. Then I went back to doing what I was doing. It was surreal to not be surprised or outraged by his comments, but I wasn't. From what I know about Imus, which is not much, he's a veteran offender of everybody (except White men, I suppose). That men, be they Black or White, see women through idealized or dehumanized lenses, is not new. That Imus, in particular, would make ignorant comments, is status quo. So "shock jocks" are not shocking any longer.
(snip)
No doubt my hardening is also cemented by the current all-time high sexist state of affairs of today's hip hop. Grown Black men, aided by white affluent male financiers, over-saturate our multi-media landscapes with sex, sex, and more mega sex fantasies - which do an excellent job of animalizing women or only presenting them, as Dr. Beverly Guy-Sheftall so eloquently states in Byron Hurt's groundbreaking documentary Hip Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes, as "objects to be fucked."
But Black sexiest men, whether they care to admit it or not, take their cues from White sexist men. They reinforce each other and form unspoken alliances - all at our expense. But oppressed anybodies take their cues from dominating forces. It's universal, scientific, and is part of the reason why women accommodate injustices from men.
(snip)
The exclusion of Black women weighing in on this controversy is thunderous. In the immediate aftermath of the comment, I never got the impression that "the media" was even remotely interested in feedback from the young Black women hit, or from any other Black woman for that matter. The respondent faces of this controversy have been predominately male. In fact, the one woman who was given a national platform this night on CNN's Paula Zahn was a white woman - an enlightened, well-spoken, and progressive one - but a white woman nonetheless. The by-passing of Black women is the kind of obnoxious, oppressive exclusion that "the media," and the white affluent men who own it, have embraced for decades. Black women don't immediately come to mind in the search for analysts or independent thinkers, even when the subject is them. Black woman organizations are not who Imus sat down with when he offered a so-called apology. He bowed toward men first. Rev. Sharpton is the logical go-to person in a national controversy such as this, for he has consistently stood up for the disenfranchised.
(snip)
Amongst Black women, perhaps even we assume that White men just have too much power for our own good. Perhaps we also assume that if our transgressors are Black men, then well…maybe there's no dignity or progress to be made if we dare challenge them. That's just too disloyal. I disagree. There is a time, a place, and the power of reason to stand up for ourselves, even amongst family.
(snip)
I strongly believe that we should partner with Black men, especially, but with anyone else who stands in principle support. But the battle for the respect of Black women, however, is ours to lead.
quote:The part of the radio spectrum where Mr. Di Paolo holds forth each day — shows in which commentary and entertainment fuse, sometimes under the rubric of a morning or afternoon “zoo” — remains as arguably and insidiously untamed in the days after Mr. Imus’s collapse as it was before, based on a New York Times screening of nearly 250 hours of shock-talk radio broadcast over the last week.
Gay men and lesbians, and women and Muslims, among others, were frequent targets of ridicule; coarse, sexually explicit banter, particularly descriptions of anal and oral sex, proliferated, much of it reminiscent of the routines that once drew Howard Stern heavy penalties; and meanness appeared to be a job prerequisite, whether a host was belittling someone who called in or the unwitting subject of a prank call.
In a sense, the hosts of these shows are juggling live grenades each day, putting the companies that broadcast and sponsor them at the greatest risk of collateral damage, particularly as the smoke clears from the Imus affair.
Now, I don't really think that aspect needs much discussion. I think most reasonable people will see his comments as absolutely stupid and inappropriate.
But what I've been wondering is why, whenever there is a racial incident, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson always seem to end up as the lead spokesmen for the Black community and why the person who committed to the racially insensitive offense goes to THEM begging for forgiveness. Don Imus certainly should have apologized for what he said. But his first apology should have been to the women he personally insulted, not to Al Sharpton.
And I'm wondering how exactly Sharpton has ANY credibility when criticizing other people for inappropriate remarks. This is a guy who publicly and repeatedly accused an innocent man of raping a 15 year old woman. He was convicted in court of this. I don't know know about others, but I'd certainly rather be called a "nappy headed ho" than "a man who rapes 15 year olds". What Imus said was offensive. What Sharpton said was criminal. And yet he acts like he has such moral authority in taking Imus to task.
Jesse Jackson has led protests outside of the studio that boradcasts Imus. He's outraged by his offensive comments. Maybe he should picket himself, since this is the guy who referred to New York as "Hymie-town" and said that it was controlled by Jews and their money. This is the guy who used money that people had generously given to his tax-exempt charity foundation to pay hush-money to his mistress and mother of his illegitimate child. And this guy is gonna be so self-righteous because some radio DJ made offensive comments? Give me a break.
I'm not gonna defend waht Imus said. But I'm not gonna defend hypocrisy either and it seems like these guys are really out there trying to get publicity for themselves and exploiting this incident where accomplished young women were publicly insulted in order to further their own agendas.
"The only other people I want to talk to are these young women at the team, and then that's it," Imus said.
Let's hope that's so. Let's hope he is never heard in public again.
My guess? He ends up opening shop on satellite radio, like Howard Stern did.
[ 12 April 2007: Message edited by: Makwa ]
Um, has anyone asked if they want to talk to him???. My guess is why the hell should they?
And Wilf, Rick's best line is not from him but from the Onion:
Doesn't look like it was that hard for him.As for the MLK and Sharpton bashing, let's cut that out, 'kay? The phrase "racial McCarthyite" is offensive, wrong and stupid on many levels, especially here in the AR forum.
Well I dont believe anyone was bashing MLK. And why would they - there arent really any allegations against him.
Except I heard some far-right saying he was a Soviet-funded spy. Which sounds like bull, unless any socialist group = USSR.
BTW, that quote about Imus forced to be an asshole was funny.
i like the idea of the women's basketball team challenging Imus (and Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Saveage, and Ann Coulter) to a simple one hour basketball game.
with no referees !
i think justice might be meted out in an informal and yet highly effective fashion.
I think Imus owed an appology to his audience, and to the girls on the basketball team. From there, he needs to retire and enjoy his millions, fading into obscurity.
Maybe she should host a radio show.
Deirdre is encouraging everybody wanting to send hatemail to the team to send it to Don instead. Maybe she should get a radio show, too.
Imus' Wife: Send All Hate Mail to Him
On a strange, sad note: N.J. Gov. 'Didn't Appear To Be Wearing Seatbelt' :
On another note, I've read comments from Members of Congress, Barak Obama, Condoleeza Rice, Woopie Goldberg, Spike Lee ...
Imus flap triggers debate over rap lyrics
[ 13 April 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
[ 13 April 2007: Message edited by: Makwa ]
- inspired by something Rick Salutin once wrote in the Globe and Mail:
[ 23 April 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]