Transracial adoption: China
Comments
quote:
Oh, and there's a huge difference between "coloured people" and "people of colour".
I've always that the phrase "people of color" was a bit tortured.
"Fast cars" become "cars of fast" or "elderly men" become "men of elderly". There's gotta be a better term. Besides, "white" is composed of all colors, no? [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
The NAACP, I suppose, should change its name to NAAPC!!
quote:
here in Canada POC are more likely to live in poverty, are more likely to be stopped/harassed/ beat up/injured/killed by the cops (particularly Black and FN people), more likely to not be represented in education's curriculum, at all levels, more likely to have crappy jobs, die younger, have poorer health, the list goes on.
Is this true for POCs of Asian ancestry? I'm not sure that the statistics support that.
quote:Originally posted by Sven:
I have no objection to the term, other than it just sounds a bit affected.
I sort of agree with you and mostly it (my agreement) springs from listening to too many jackasses saying "xxx ... excuse me ... yyy ... excuse me ... zzz." Does the entire group have to be contained within one term? How about African-Canadian, Indo-Canadian, etc.?
"The implication being that anything is better than growing up in Africa, even having Madonna as a mother. I was adopted from an orphanage in Eritrea at six ..."
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1888996,00.html - 23k
"It's arrogant to assume the only way to deal with poverty in the developing world is for westerners to adopt a few "lucky" children. Adoption can be a wonderful thing, but when it comes to inter-country adoption it's easy to confuse what the parents want (a nice shiny, new baby) with what's best for the child. Inter-country adoption might seem well-intentioned but when white people from rich countries adopt black children from poor countries it smacks of missionary-like behaviour."
quote:Originally posted by Sven:Is this true for POCs of Asian ancestry? I'm not sure that the statistics support that.
quote: Krishna Pendakur, an SFU assistant professor of economics, told the Georgia Straight that his studies have shown that if these two people go to work, the one with minority roots would likely earn less than the white worker.But that is not all. If average incomes among different Canadian-born minority groups are compared, African-Canadians and those with South Asian origins earn less than those with lighter skins, namely Canadians of Chinese and Arab–West Asian ancestries.
“That correlation is there,” Pendakur said.
Pendakur pointed out that such a correlation is “actually even stronger” if you consider his findings that not even all white Canadians are equal. He noted that there are income disparities among the white population depending on their European ancestry. “All the southern European ethnic groups in Canada also have lower incomes,” he said, explaining that white Canadians of British and French origins earn more on average than Canadians who have Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Greek, and Balkan roots.
Pendakur is a codirector of Metropolis B.C., a policy-research institute focusing on immigration and diversity issues.
...
In his slide presentation, Pendakur showed that—based on 2001 federal census figures—visible-minority male workers earned 14 percent less than white male workers across Canada, while their female counterparts had four percent less earnings than white female workers (with both studies controlled for age, education, family type, and city of residence).
African-Canadians fared the worst. Males and females in this category earned 16 percent and 12 percent less respectively. Canadian-born workers of South Asian descent were slightly better off, with earnings below 16 percent and six percent less for males and females, respectively, compared to white Canadians.
Pendakur’s presentation showed that Chinese- and Arab–West Asian-origin people earned about the same as white Canadian workers.
quote:Originally posted by AfroHealer:
If you are white, you potentially have the luxury of not having to think about issues of race. Unfortunately for the rest of us, who are continually assulted by the racist society that we live in, we have to think of these things. If we choose to ignore the reality of the racism and white supremacy in this country, our children die ( physically, mentally and emotionally). Ignoring it does not make it go away.
No, ignoring racism where it exists does not make it go away. But I don't want to feed racial issues either, and that's why I disagree with making a huge fuss over racial aspect of international adoption.
quote:Originally posted by AfroHealer:Reminder .. This is an Anit-racism forum .. We are here to discuss issues of race and racism, from an anti-racism perspective. So please don't be surprised.
What I meant was that there are social and cultural issues tied to international adoption that I didn't address because they apply regardless of race.
It's one thing if a woman giving childbirth consents to an adoption, and is within the same social and cultural milieu as the adopting family (e.g. in the same city or town, or at least in the same geographic region). It's another altogether to transplant a child half-way across the globe into a society that still hasn't fully dealt with existing underlying racist and/or sexist structures (for example, in the USA or Canada, a minority child being raised by white parents gets all the privilege and all the crap, so it is probably a very confusing time growing up).
Frankly transnational adoption like this is a stupid idea and ought to be treated with a great deal more care and handling than it seems to currently get.
quote:Originally posted by DrConway:
It's another altogether to transplant a child half-way across the globe into a society that still hasn't fully dealt with existing underlying racist and/or sexist structures..
Another excellant reason to keep the races pure. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
[white|black|asian] power
[white|black|asian] power
...
I hear this sort of crap all the time because I'm involved in the trans-racial relationship.
Is it cultural genocide or racial genocide--or both?
And why? He needs to check out the new rides at Canada's Wonderland?"
BCG, this is your post in another thread in reference to the whole Wish thing on CBC...and yet you tell Jingles not to post unless he has something to contribute? Fascinating. How was this post a contribution?
Nice to know how well I'm being policed here, though.
My point was that there are a lot of well-meaning organizations alleviating a lot of pain for a lot of people in this great big world. In some places that fit the description above, despotic and/or uncaribg governments young, orphaned children are often merely left to either starve, steal or sell themselves.
If an organization can alleviate this kind of misery, should they not? If they do, should they then be tarred with the same brush as evil black-market baby brokers?
[ 01 June 2007: Message edited by: Atavist ]
You may be right, and I DO understand - consequences are consequences, whether unintended or not.
I find it more than a little weird that while I see a lot of white folks adopting "trans-racially" from South America, Asia and Africa, there don't seem to be so many adopting within race from war-torn spots in Eastern Europe/Western Asia...and I don't really understand WHY.
I was shocked to discover how fixated "big-hearted" western couples are on procuring healthy babies. Check out the buyer beware attitude on this site (and there are many more like it):
www.russianadoption.org
Martha, is there a but to this? I am white man in a relationship with a black woman. Sometimes, I think about race in this situation, quite often I don't. Sometimes, often, people remind me.
[ 02 June 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
For what it's worth, I believe that the topics of transracial adoption and transracial romance are intimately related: they both raise questions of the meaning of "race", they both involve mixed families, they both challenge some people's notions that like belong with like, and so on.
Yes. That is a far better analogy. Again poverty underscores that industry as well.
Here is an excerpt from an article that tackles some of these issues. Unfortunately, the complete article is for subscribers only.
Political Economics of Passion: Transnational Adoption and Global Woman
You'd think that "white" people that don't like "coloured" people would have a few reservations about calling a "coloured" baby their own. Just a thought.
And what happens in that adult relationship when one of those adults becomes pregnant? A "powerless child" is likely to follow.
I've always thought that the idea behind all this anti-racism and multiculturalism stuff is that people are people regardless of their ancestry, ethnic origin, skin colour, etc. If that's the kind of society we Canadians aspire to (I admit we're far from perfect), why in the hell is this even an issue?
Two adult human beings adopt a baby human being as their own. Where is the problem?
No. Many racist white people don't express their "hatred" or "dislike" of people of colour via distance (although, yes, many do. Thank the goddess of cats for small mercies). Exotification, ownership (which leads to or comes from a need to control), and feelings of superiority often motivate how parenting happens in these cases (also in inter-racial relationships, btw). ANd I'm leaving out the beyond idiotic "trendiness" as a motivator, although to be fair, given longish waiting periods, seems less likely in non-celebrities. But I'm open to being proven wrong on that one.
Oh, and there's a huge difference between "coloured people" and "people of colour".
That's great that you think that, however, this thinking will not change the fact that here in Canada POC are more likely to live in poverty, are more likely to be stopped/harassed/ beat up/injured/killed by the cops (particularly Black and FN people), more likely to not be represented in education's curriculum, at all levels, more likely to have crappy jobs, die younger, have poorer health, the list goes on. These differences are not due to an inherent inferiority of the communities of colour, they are due to systemic racism that pervades all of Canada, including the violent history (and present) of how Canada was "created" as a nation-state, and how that's maintained.
In this context, "Two adult human beings adopt a baby human as their own" does not exist, and cannot exist until structures of power and inequity are examined, and, ideally, dismantled/destroyed.
[ 03 June 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
I remember one of the team outings we organized at my workplace last year. Some members brought along their significant others and children. Interracial relationships were the norm, and I don't believe any of them were established for reasons of novelty or some twisted sense of superiority. I can't know for sure, of course, but those relationships just seemed normal. I think that the normalcy of those people relating to each other regardless of race is something truly awesome.
Yeah, yeah. As a person of white I should know that. I would have picked up on that if I actually proofread my posts that closely. But I don't.
You're right, we haven't reached perfection in the elimination of racism yet. I don't think we need to before we can look at a family where one spouse is black, one is white, and their child(ren) somewhere in between and not say or think anything unusual about it. And if we can do that, there are few other things in the way of two Canadians (of any colour) who want to adopt a baby from somewhere else.
Now I know there are a lot of other issues surrounding foreign adoption (or domestic interracial and intercultural adoption), but this thread has focused on the racial element and that is what I am addressing here.
I dont think we were saying anything negative about interacial couples, the focus here is on Tranracial adoption.
And if we can do that, there are few other things in the way of two Canadians (of any colour) who want to adopt a baby from somewhere else.
If you are white, you potentially have the luxury of not having to think about issues of race. Unfortunately for the rest of us, who are continually assulted by the racist society that we live in, we have to think of these things. If we choose to ignore the reality of the racism and white supremacy in this country, our children die ( physically, mentally and emotionally). Ignoring it does not make it go away.
Reminder .. This is an Anit-racism forum .. We are here to discuss issues of race and racism, from an anti-racism perspective. So please don't be surprised.