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Native College - Good Idea?
February 26, 2007 - 2:18pm
This article, from late 2006. discusses a native only college....
Before I comment on the idea.....i wanna hear others opinion of this first.....
I will comment after a few posts...
It would be up to them, as it is run by indigenous people, for indigenous people.
I mean it sounds good and all for every ethnic group/religon/group can have their own college or university.....
-but-
Doesnt that defeat the purpose of post-secondary education? Isnt it all about growing up, seeing the world as it is, and meeting different people? Lifelong connections (see future employment, friendships, etc etc) are created in a multi cultural setting.
I do see the benefits in an all native environment, however i think they pale in comparison to the benefits of a multi-ethnic setting.
Just my 2 cents.......
As for the socializing and meeting of others, I would rather see people building their identity, self-esteem and pride of their background rather than playing the "minority". Since when has one's minoritiness been valued in public institutions other than for the five minutes it takes to take your picture to adorn a pamphlet for public and political consumption ?
Ain't that one of the biggest scams of our time.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
A good chuckle at 5 in the morning. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I checked the links Obscurantis provided and the one regarding the firing is a subscription-only, but I found onother link
http://tinyurl.com/2eq2sw.
Not to defend crookedness from any quarters, but it appears to me that the miscoscope aimed at Aboriginal institutions is clear and a few times more powerful than the fogged one aimed at mainstream institutions.
Chemainus Native College, just outsiide of Ladysmith
Sechelt Indian Band Education Centre
Kamloops also has one.
You should have stopped there. We can agree to disagree about the level of attention non-Aboriginal organizations receive. However, to suggest that it is anything but a good thing that corruption is identified in an Aboriginal organization is wrong-headed.
An area that the Canadian media has failed in has been in its coverage of Aboriginal issues, especially Aboriginal issues that do not have an impact beyond that community.
For instance, the Hamilton Spectator doesn't cover band issues on the Six Nations even though the reserve falls within its natural distribution area. That responsibility falls to the native publications, which, more often than not, are directly supported by the bands.
I doubt many people would argue that it would be ideal if, say, the Niagara Falls Review were owned by the the municipal council of the city of Niagara Falls. Yet, that's the situation on many reserves in Canada (if there is a paper at all, that is). Aboriginal organizations often aren't under a brighter microscope. Actually, they often operate in the dark, with no media attention and therefore no public scrutiny.
As for the question on this thread...if the college is designed to meet certain unique needs of the Aboriginal population and will help to ensure that more First Nations people--especially those that may, for whatever reason, not feel comfortable going to a public institution--get a post-secondary education, then great.
Education is good, after all.
Pardon me ? Where and when did I suggest, say or imply that it is a good thing...
What I tried to say is to lament the fact that that Aboriginals' institutions seem to be much more scrutinized than mainstream institutions.
Well..you put a qualifier on it, which, to me, does suggest that part of you does wonder if it is a good thing. But, whatever. You have indicated above that you do feel it is important that Aboriginal institutions are scrutinized to the same degree as non-Aboriginal institutions (not more than, the same). So, we agree.
And, as I have already stated, I don't think there is very much evidence to support your contention that Aboriginal institutions are more scrutinized as compared to non-Aboriginal institutions. In fact (as I pointed out with examples), it's my suggestion that most Aboriginal institutions are ignored. Can you counter that argument with something more than your opinion? If so, I'm open to hearing it.
Indigenous Nations are not groups; ethnic, religious or any other. They are sovereign nations that entered into international treaties with the Crown of England, and later Canada. They hold inextinguishable title to their territories and the treaties provide that settlers can live here in peace under certain conditions.
It is wrong to implying that a college run by, and for, Indigenous people (of which there are many existing examples) is equivalent to a college run by, and for, Chinese-Canadians, Quйbйcois, Catholics, etc.
I see the community feeling of a school, like the one in Macaza, QC had in the early 70s, and see how it can be a strong reason to have native colleges. But how does one enter the real world after school without any sense of what the real world is?
Most reserves are desolate places, and they only know (for the most part) other natives. A native school only furthers that segregation further, in my opinion.
Its what "they" want, "they" want us cropped up between 4 walls (see Here ) again.
You are talking like if the students are to be totally isolated from the rest of the larger community, the world.
We are not talking about jailing students for ten years or fifteen years, SavageInTheCity ! I am not knowledgeabla about the Macaza school, but your own statement may give an answer: that was in the 1970's. We are at least three decades later, more than one generation.
Exactly.
When I grow up and become a Native I would rather be a citizen in my land than a facile prey for the uniformed white boys in Saskatoon and elsewhere, supported by an elitist, corporatist, racist white system.
How many years and efforts did it take for one inquiry to be set into polic hauling Natives off the city and dumping them in the outskirts, summer, winter and all seasons? Why did it take that long ? Because they are "just" Natives.
[ 01 March 2007: Message edited by: sidra ]
Sidra, exactly!
We will be "just" natives in the eyes of society until we show we can succeed in "their" world. Its bad enough that schools take in native students not because of their grades, but because of their nationality, theres a problem.
Creating a all-native college simply exagerrates incompetentance in order to keep student levels high enough to make it sustainable!
[ 01 March 2007: Message edited by: SavageInTheCity ]
When people are forced in to segregated situations, it is illegal.
When people are offered choices, it is freedom of choice. I guess you are saying you would not choose that option. Should you have the right to prevent others from having that option? I don't think so.
I don't believe anyone is forcing anyone here.
Im all for choices, but shouldnt one stand up and say something when one thinks something is so obviously wrong. Isnt it our responsibility to voice our concerns?
Now Ive voiced my biggest concern about an all Native school:
"Creating a all-native college simply exagerrates incompetentance in order to keep student levels high enough to make it sustainable"
This is the 1 thing that makes me stop and think twice about this. We already live in a society where it is acceptable (even expected) that natives do not succeed in the school system that exists. Is the solution to create a new system that allows less qualified people into fields they should have no business even contemplating? The current school system already does that with the "quota" system in place.
This subject is a touchy one - and Im just giving my 2 cents. Being FN, living on reserve, having visited many communities in Quebec/Ontario, I feel i do have an insight into this......
[ 03 March 2007: Message edited by: SavageInTheCity ]
You are very obviously correct, but unfortunately many people in Canada see FN peoples as just another ethic group(s) - including many people who are themselves in ethic groups.
At a guess, a lot of people in the GTA might fall into this category.
But in BC anyway, the community college system as a whole is wildly dysfunctional and corrupt, and would benefit from being placed under greater centralized control. When Okanagan University College was closed down a couple of years ago, the province spun it by turning it into two institutions -- a college, and a branch of UBC -- but it was done in order to get rid of an utterly incompetent board and administration.
When I hear that native people are stepping forward, and beginning to build their own institutions, I am proud and happy for them. I think it takes a lot of guts to do this, because of the many obstacles in the way. A native school does not necessarily mean that only native students will go there. A native school will have a different vision of what education is, a different philosophy. If it didn’t, then I see no reason for its existence, we may as well go to the mainstream institutions. By the way, this is not segregation, this is association by choice, which is a freedom that we should all enjoy in this country. There are a lot of native educational institutions already out there. I know of several in Ontario. I don’t know if any of them have been “chartered” as stand alone, often they are affiliated with a college or university. But then, I wonder if we really need to be recognized by government. We should just go ahead and build our institutions, our learning centres, our study circles, whatever it takes to get the dialogue started, and the work begun. We surely and sorely need it.
I think that we can do it. I think we are smart enough to do it. I think that we have learned enough of the western way of doing things, that we know it does not work for us.
It is time that we started doing for ourselves.
I don’t think going to school prepares you for the real world, we are already in the real world, and school, college, and university is supposed to enable us to change the real world, and for the better, through tools of critical thinking, dialogue, openness to other ideas, and encouraging creativity. This is what I see university should be, but seldom is.
Our way of seeing the world, and our relationship to the world and each other, is not the same as the western way of seeing. A native college or university that recognizes this, and has strong, committed people of integrity and vision to make it happen, will succeed, on our terms, and not necessarily what western culture sees as success.
When I see what the western way of thinking has done to the world, the consumerism , the waste, the contamination of land , water, and air, I don’t think that its benefits are worth the costs. The costs are beginning to mount up, and we are seeing the results, in the state of the environment, the state of our health.
Sometimes, I just want to cry, I feel there is no hope. But if we can get together, and start talking, and working together, I think we just may have a chance. Maybe.
What's next? A school only for Asians? Only for Whites? Only for Middle Easterners? Only for blacks? Only for XXXs?
So how about we get rid of
Christian schools
Catholic schools
Private schools only for rich kids
Home schools
Hypocrisy if you do not see is infusing your thinking
[ 06 March 2007: Message edited by: remind ]
Is there any research you could link to that explores this?
http://www.ccl-cca.ca/CCL/Reports/LessonsInLearning/LinL20070116_Ab_sci_edu.htm?Language=EN