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I'm not interested in that.
But, if you want to continue by yourself, fine. Just mind the direction of the wind.
Oh puleeze, you cannot handle the dialogue, so this is what you put! I suppose now I am supposed to feel put in my place?
Remind said
"However, exclusiveness of FN's primary, and middle/high schools is not because of FN planning, but because of the remoteness of the reserves.
Remoteness of reserves, are the ultimate creation of whitemen for the purposes of *gasp* exclusion."
Remind, you are absolutely right. The remoteness and isolation is a direct creation of colonization. I agree. But at what point do we stop and say "Listen, what happened in the past sucks! But now, as a people, we've got to figure out a way for our culture/governance systems to evolve. Lets put on our pants and become autonomous. Because lets face it: The money is going to stop one day!"
Remind again-
"Beyond that, it appears that some are still not getting the fact that the proposed university is NOT being planned as an exclusionary institution."
From the article - “A native-only CEGEP will be very good for students who are wary of the traditional set-up,” she said. Horne-Miller argued that even if the initial draw for some students is the comfortable social context of a native-only school, it will create opportunities for students to develop transferable life – and work – skills.
“Everyone needs a way to make life for themselves. With the history of aboriginal people, how can you think that we would not want to have our own CEGEP, to control our own education?” she asked.
I can understand, from the article, how one could think that we are talking about an exclusionary school. When I started the thread, my understanding was that of an native-only school. That being said, the thread took a turn, and threads, like society, must evolve in order to stay relevant.
Speaking of a native school that isnt exclusionary Remind said:
"So again, why would there be any objections to any such schools? Or indeed any opinion at all, other than a general: "great, the more schools there are, the better for everyone".
My sentiments exactly.
___________________________________
Sven,
I think my words speak for themselves for the large part. I DID stick up for you, when I thought it right. Please dont make me re-think my position.
"I'll leave it to SITC to clarify his own words about schools and exclusivity."
What do you want clarified? Rather, what would you like me to clarify for others?
PM me, Id be glad to elaborate on any questions you may have about my views. But I will not force a discussion on exclusionary schools in a thread where the postings have moved past that. You want dialogue on that topic - Start a new thread!
Edited for spelling
[ 10 March 2007: Message edited by: SavageInTheCity ]
SITC, that is not so 2 dimensional either.
There is nothing at all wrong with saying that, in fact there is everything correct about it. But it is not that simplistic when ALL things are considered.
For example here are some things that have to be considered:
1. Outstanding legal obligations that require closure, and that is a requirement that has to be timely.
2. Changing the system, for all to accommodate all. No small task, when people cannot even agree there are racial biases that need to be eradicated before consensus can occur. However, the racial biases have to be acknowledged first, before they can be overcome, from any side.
3. FN Bands are putting their pants on and becoming autonomous, but for some it is more problematic than others, and those problems need to be addressed internally, before ways to autonomy can even be discussed and implimented at the Band level.
4. Many isolated Reserves are still isolated, exclusion is going to continue to exist because of that isolation. The options to try to end that exclusion, if anyone would want to even, are worse than the exclusion itself. So, the reality is, isolated Bands are in a different category, than proximal to high density population Bands. Matter of fact those isolated Bands, being the Nations they are, have every right to uphold their exclusionary state of living, if they so chose. And that will continue to be an issue with certain segments of the population, even though they have no right to hold it as an issue.
5. Successful living in peaceful co-existence, that would assist in lessening exclusion, cannot continue to be judged based upon the protestant work ethic model, in order to end exclusion.
The current model of assimulation to a cultural norm, where worth is denoted by human capital with high yeild productivity that alleges to benefit the greater whole economically, all the while diminishing the environment and the majority's social and economical well being, should not and cannot be used to try to end exclusion. The change that is required to end this systemic model, is not something FN's can change, it is something that the dominant culture must change within themselves. But first there must be a will to do so. And that again is a process of education and awareness of other lifestyle forms, such as egalitarian that could be utilized.
6. People fear the unknown. Over coming this is a priority.
People are of course moving along in these areas that are problematic, with a vague understanding of a possible end result. And some of the changes occuring are pragmatic exclusionary actions and that IMV is a good thing when it is reason based and a solution.
For example:
In Victoria, there is now medical programs to train care attendants for Continuing Care facilities that are baased solely upon elder FN's requirements. As more elders move from a isolated Reserve situation, that cannot accommodate their needs, to an urban setting of Continuing Care, there was a clash in care giving requirements occurring, based upon cultural clashes.
It was recognized, that the elders could not be expected to try to assimulate to a differnt norm, and that the current system had to change to adapt to the elders cultural requirements to meet their care needs.
So, it could appear that this action is an exclusionary action for some, but in truth it is an inclusionary action where the systemic dominant cultural norm shifted to accommodate differences in culture. Moreover, the end result is a stronger system for everyone, that has the power to further inclusiveness between all cultures in other sytems.
"1. Outstanding legal obligations that require closure, and that is a requirement that has to be timely."
Their legal obligations should be looked at from a global approach, as I believe closure from the past equals progress. Land claims, in quebec anyways, are being looked at in this approach. Take all our claims (speaking of my rez), and settle em all in one shot. Why cant we do this with our legal "problems". Canada wants these to end as much as I do!
"2. Changing the system, for all to accommodate all. No small task, when people cannot even agree there are racial biases that need to be eradicated before consensus can occur. However, the racial biases have to be acknowledged first, before they can be overcome, from any side."
I agree, for the most part, native leaders cant agree on lunch. But we can move past this. (I apologize in advance for the next statement). Once the older generation (resedential schools generation) has passed on, we will be more apt as a people to move forward. The anger and passion of which most of our leaders grew up harnessing will be gone, and things can be looked at in a new perspective. Im not wishing harm on our elders, as they ARE VERY IMPORTANT to our culture. However, as we keep trying to settle past injustices (which must be addressed), we allow this past to stop us from addressing the future!
"3. FN Bands are putting their pants on and becoming autonomous, but for some it is more problematic than others, and those problems need to be addressed internally, before ways to autonomy can even be discussed and implimented at the Band level."
I agree, no comment. We do have a ways to go. But standing pat is not an option!
"4. Many isolated Reserves are still isolated, exclusion is going to continue to exist because of that isolation. The options to try to end that exclusion, if anyone would want to even, are worse than the exclusion itself. So, the reality is, isolated Bands are in a different category, than proximal to high density population Bands. Matter of fact those isolated Bands, being the Nations they are, have every right to uphold their exclusionary state of living, if they so chose. And that will continue to be an issue with certain segments of the population, even though they have no right to hold it as an issue."
My best friend said it best ( i really felt put in my place when he said this, just like I did when I read your post the first time) - Japanese Canadians have Japan, French Canadians have France, basically immigrants have roots and culture elsewhere in the world. We have our little piece of land, and nothing else. If we want to stay secluded, its an option, sure.
I skipped # 5 remind, as I dont have any response, and I do agree with you. The system does have to change!
"6. People fear the unknown. Over coming this is a priority."
We should fear the KNOWN, as its been kicking us in the ass for more than 500 years. The Wampum belts tell us whats coming. Its not good! Fear the Unknown? I really am more scared of the status-quo.
Stephen Colbert said it best when it comes to my own personal views on a lot of native issues.
"That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did."
And Now for todays Word:
Remind - as in SITC, get REMINDED about your past, and quit babbling on and on about things your know practically nothing about. You do read up on a lot of issues, but REMIND yourself, youre only 25 and have a lot of things to learn.
PS - thanks remind for REMINDING me, IT AINT THAT SIMPLE!