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Could global warming ignite war?

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
 

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Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
Generals warn on warming

excerpt:

WASHINGTON (AP) – Global warming poses a "serious threat to America's national security" with terrorism worsening and the U.S. will likely be dragged into fights over water and other shortages, top retired military leaders warn in a new report.

Joining calls already made by scientists and environmental activists, the retired U.S. military leaders, including the former Army chief of staff and President Bush's former chief Middle East peace negotiator, called on the U.S. government to make major cuts in emissions of gases that cause global warming.

The report warned that in the next 30 to 40 years there will be wars over water, increased hunger instability from worsening disease and rising sea levels and global warming-induced refugees. "The chaos that results can be an incubator of civil strife, genocide and the growth of terrorism," the 35-page report predicted.

excerpt:

Gen. Anthony "Tony" Zinni, Bush's former Middle East envoy, said in the report: "It's not hard to make the connection between climate change and instability, or climate change and terrorism."

excerpt:

In a veiled reference to Bush's refusal to join an international treaty to cut greenhouse gas emissions, the report said the U.S. government "must become a more constructive partner" with other nations to fight global warming and cope with its consequences.

excerpt:

"We will pay for this one way or another," wrote Zinni, former commander of U.S. Central Command. "We will pay to reduce greenhouse gas emissions today, and we'll have to take an economic hit of some kind. Or we will pay the price later in military terms. And that will involve human lives. There will be a human toll."


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001
quote:...the U.S. will likely be dragged into fights over water and other shortages...
Which is why deep integrationists must be revealed for what they are ... particularly those who would integrate our military, such as Hillier and Harper:

Traitorous fifth column filth.


marzo
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Joined: Feb 14 2006
Anthony Zinni is stating the obvious.
There will inevitably be shortages of food, water, and arable land as the process of climate change continues. When poverty-stricken nations with plagues and mass starvation get powerful weapons, they will gain leverage over affluent countries. They could use nuclear weapons or genetically engineered plagues to demand food and water and if they don't get what they want, they could launch attacks that would make 9/11 look like a minor squabble.

TemporalHominid
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Joined: Jul 23 2004
climate change has created conflicts in the past.

just read The Little Ice Age: How Climate Made History, 1300-1850 by Brian Fagan, and Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel to get some historical context of conflict and climate change in the recent past.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
quote:Originally posted by marzo:
They could use nuclear weapons or genetically engineered plagues to demand food and water and if they don't get what they want, they could launch attacks that would make 9/11 look like a minor squabble.

I think there is a stronger case for the opposite side of that claim, that poor developing countries rich in natural resources are the one's being exploited by capitalism with an "invisible fist" paving the way for an economic system that is incompatible with the future.

If Iran and other oil-rich nations have learned anything from the U.S. invasion of Iraq, it's that countries not in possession of nuclear weapons are wide open for a carpet bombing based on pretext and monumental lies.

[ 15 April 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


West Coast Greeny
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Joined: Sep 14 2004
Absolutely it could. It will almost certainly lead at least to an increase in intrastate conflicts, probably will lead to an increase in interstate conflicts, and could lead to the growth of anti-west militant movements.

Global warming -> scarcity in resources -> war
These two links are pretty solid.


Steppenwolf Allende
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Joined: Aug 20 2006
Interesting stuff, but not entirely credible considering the source.

This report is similar to the Pentagon Report released about three years ago issuing a similar war warning.

While I totally agree that global warming is a key issue and will likely create a whole lot of destructive situations, and I realize that control over and access to resources has always been a main cause of war, and that scarcity could increase that likelihood; I found that report to be somewhat sensational and suspect.

Why? Because when looking at its so-called solutions section, I remember seeing it focused not so much on measures to mitigate the impact of global warming (like cleaning up the capitalist act), but rather on more military spending, expensive security and monitoring systems--not to monitor the weather or climate change, but to monitor people, both in the US and abroad--and the usual tougher security measures and laws, greater military activity in "securing resources for the US economy, etc.

These proposals do SFA to fight global warming or its potential impact, but are very good for fighting people, including the working class citizens of the US, who end up paying for it all via more wasted tax dollars and, more importantly, lost personal and social freedoms.

Although I haven’t seen this new report itself, from what the article says it seems a bit more responsible in that it actually urges the Bush Reich to do something about cutting GHG emissions, which certain do help mitigate the global warming impact, and to cooperate more with other governments doing the same.

That’s a pleasant surprise, if it is in fact the actual focus of the report’s solutions.

Then again, I doubt this will do anything to change the Bush regime’s direction on this, no matter how credible or well-researched it is or the fact that it’s approved by the Pentagon.


gram swaraj
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Joined: Dec 30 2005
quote:Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
Global warming -> scarcity in resources -> war
These two links are pretty solid.

This is the beautiful [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] thing about global warming, isn't it? Instead of having to politically manufacture scarcity, or an enemy that will justify funnelling the people's taxes into huge military budgets, the bastards just keep delaying and stalling and holding up and hampering action on climate change, until lo and behold, we have real fucking scarcity and insecurity.


Pride for Red D...
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Joined: Feb 11 2006
This is all very interesting because it reminds me of Malthusianism.
Only instead of the interaction between the population growth and scarcity (i.e there's not really any such thing as a limitless quantity of anything, think food for example or better yet trees) the ever expanding economy interacts with these two because of our own behavior that will likely create conflict- be it war or only the rich being able to afford basic needs. see better explained blurb about this here here
an economic system that is based on continuous expansion just doesn't work in the long run. the "invisible hand" just isn't doing the trick either for various reasons' agricultural subsidies (ie. western subsidies vs 3rd world countries), social inequality related to gender or race, etc it all very much ties in.

[ 17 April 2007: Message edited by: Pride for Red Dolores ]


Bubbles
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Joined: Feb 21 2003
Resource wars between nations is not going to solve the climate change problem. When fifty percent of the worlds military budget cannot effectively control 30 million people, it would take far more then all the worlds resources to control six billion, by military means. The hearts and mind aproach seems to be the better way to find renewable riches in community life.

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
quote:The report warned that in the next 30 to 40 years there will be wars over water, increased hunger instability from worsening disease and rising sea levels and global warming-induced refugees. "The chaos that results can be an incubator of civil strife, genocide and the growth of terrorism," the 35-page report predicted

The report makes no reference to the millions of refugees already being created by their evil economic ideology foisted on poorest of poor nations. UN agencies have reported over the last 20 years that 80 percent of chronically hungry nations are exporting cash crops to "the market." Once poor people are shoved off arable land in favour of cash crop capitalism, they become disenfranchised in their own countries. Millions of economic refugees are expected to seek human status in Australia, Europe, NA and whichever countries will accept them on an ongoing basis now and in future.

I think countries like Afghanistan and Iraq are test sites for pending global fascism emanating from that country which tricked our fearless leaders into signing the dumbest trade deals in universal history. I think the war hawks are planning to gain a foothold in Asian and Middle Eastern countries for the purpose of launching military attacks on much larger resource-rich nations in future, like: India, China and Russia. Megalomaniacs in the Pentagon and shadow government have had in their craws to weaponize space with satellites armed with star wars type lasers and surveillance. They want to be able to rain death on countries which do not fit the mold of globalization by opening their borders to capitalist looting and pillage. Star Wars, in their nanoscopic minds, would be the ultimate "invisible fist" enforcing globalized market rules while they themselves hide behind a wall of sovereignty and privatized security. The plutocracy and shadow government are insane with thoughts of god-like power and control over billions of peoples lives.


batiste
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Joined: Oct 21 2005
Can global warming ignite wars? Absoulutely!

In fact the current Darfur war is, partly, a climate change war. The war was first triggered by an oddly lenghty drought that dryed down darfur water supplies, which created violent protests in the have-not sudaneese province and offered an excuse for the Khartoum led ethnic repression.

There's a story about it from SEED Magazine.

quote: Lost in discussions about ending the Sudanese government's attacks on its people is the acknowledgment of how the dispute began: Darfur may well be the first war influenced by climate change.

In recent years, increasing drought cycles and the Sahara's southward expansion have created conflicts between nomadic and sedentary groups over shortages of water and land. This scarcity highlighted the central government's gross neglect of the Darfur region—a trend stretching back to colonial rule. Forsaken, desperate and hungry, groups of Darfurians attacked government outposts in protest. The response was the Janjaweed and supporting air strikes.

It is no war, rather a trade conflict, but Canada is involved in a global warming induced diplomatic fight with the United-States and the EU. I'm talking about the Northwest Passage debate .

What we see now is just the tip of the melting iceberg.


siren
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Joined: Nov 21 2004
I agree with the general drift here that resource wars are not new to humanity. They will be a serious change from our recent "wars of choice".

To supplement Quйbйcois in the North's Sudan article:

quote:Scorched


As the conflict in Darfur spreads across central Africa, with thousands more displaced and killed, Julian Borger in Chad investigates the origins and contradictions of what is likely to be seen as the first climate change war

Saturday April 28, 2007
The Guardian


In the relief camps scattered around the Chad-Sudan border, the refugees from Darfur tell the same story - of an ancient shared way of life catastrophically lost.
Less than a generation ago, Arabs and Africans coexisted peacefully and productively in Darfur, Sudan's arid western province which is more than twice the size of the United Kingdom. African farmers had allowed Arab herders to graze their camels and goats on the land, and the livestock had fertilised the soil.
...................


N.Beltov
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Joined: May 25 2003
Fidel Castro Ruz points out in his MayDay remarks that converting food production into production for the creation of biofuels - in order to "assist" the US in being free from all external dependency on hydrocarbons - will likely have horrific consequences. It will be like the export of food from Ireland at the time of the famine but on a global scale.

What's interesting is how Castro connects opposition to this artifically induced famine with efforts to reduce GHGs and protect the planet.

quote:Castro: It is imperative to immediately have an energy revolution that consists not only in replacing all the incandescent light bulbs, but also in massively recycling all domestic, commercial, industrial, transport and socially used electric appliances that require two and three times more energy with their previous technologies.

It hurts to think that 10 billion tons of fossil fuel is consumed every year. This means that each year we waste what it took nature a million years to create. National industries are faced with enormous challenges, including the reduction of unemployment. Thus we could gain a bit of time.

Castro: It is imperative immediately to have an energy revolution.

Not only wars but even less food for the people of the developing countries ... so gringos in El Norte can rid themselves of dependency on others for fossil fuels.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
What if militaries of the world could control the weather ?. Could nature be used as a WMD ?.

quelar
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Joined: Jun 7 2002
Well China's already successfully warped some weather patterns publically, so I'm sure they're a few steps ahead of that already.

And of course it could be used as a weapon. For instance, just using the 'forced rain' that china's already accomplished, you could easily cause all the clouds in one area to drops it's rain before a certain country to cause that country to have a drought. That alone can kill a massive amount of people, and then if you start doing other creative things like starting fires with lightening storms, or causing floods, suddenly you have a very powerful weapon.


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001
I find the opening post extremely interesting because they're basically admitting that resource accumulation is a motive for war.

They refuse to admit that the current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are about oil, which of course it is. And they refuse to admit that cheap products and resources are the reason they prop up terrorist governments in client states.

But in this article, they come right out and admit that global warming could cause war over scarce resources. I almost find that refreshing.


CMOT Dibbler
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Joined: May 17 2003
When did they do this? [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]

quote: Well China's already successfully warped some weather patterns publically,

Boom Boom
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Joined: Dec 29 2004
In the Al Gore film, there was talk of massive displacement due to massive flooding (from a rise in ocean levels) resulting from climate change. Massive displacement will inevitably be a trigger for war somewhere on the planet when the floods come.

Steppenwolf Allende
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Joined: Aug 20 2006
quote: Well China's already successfully warped some weather patterns publically, so I'm sure they're a few steps ahead of that already.

I think outright control over weather patterns to the point where they can be overtaken and used as specific target weapons is still far off.

Obviously, though, militaries and industries are working on it.

But I think it's more likely that wars over scarce resources caused by global warming is a much more likely scenario, since wars are basically fought for that reason as it is now.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004
Washington's New World Order Weapons Have the Ability to Trigger Climate Change

quote:"WEATHER WARFARE"

World renowned scientist Dr. Rosalie Bertell confirms that "US military scientists ... are working on weather systems as a potential weapon. The methods include the enhancing of storms and the diverting of vapor rivers in the Earth's atmosphere to produce targeted droughts or floods." (2) Already in the 1970s, former National Security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski had foreseen in his book "Between Two Ages" that:

"Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised... [T]echniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm."

We know that various countries have possessed and used chemical and biological WMD. The Koreans, Russians, Chinese and Cubans have accused the west of using these terrible weapons in waging military or economic warfare on those countries in the past. Iraqgate in the U.S. was about covering up the fact that western corporations supplied Saddam with the technology for developing these kinds of weapons.

And American presidential candidate and consumer advocate Ralph Nader has talked about the enormous expenditures on military-academic collaboration to develop what could be the most deadly biological weapons in history, wrt Lawrence Livermore Labs in California, long-time home state for the military-industrial complex. These are warnings from credible people.


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