Polling on support for coalition?

There are progressive and principled people on this board who are arguing strenuously against the coalition. It is important and worthwhile to listen to their arguments, engage them, debate with them. Who knows, they may be right.

But when Stephen Harper sends one of his paid eavesdroppers here, we should just tell him to fuck off, and carry on with our business. 

 

A Recipe for Gruel

You will need the following ingredients: oats; water.

The following equipment is essential: a big pot; a big spoon; the Holy Bible.

On a blustery winter's day, with a chill in the very marrow of your poor, poor bones, take the big pot & carry it, trudging through snow, to the rusty spigot on the other side of the village. Weeping, use what little strength you have to turn the spigot until a woeful driblet of brackish water appears. Make sure you place the big iron pot under the drip, so that water collects in it. With luck, & prayer, you should find that the pot is about three quarters full before twilight, when of course the village curfew comes into effect. The evil Grand Vizier proclaimed so in his ukase, to make sure that all pious people are behind their latched & bolted doors by nightfall. Place the big pot on your oven & set it on full. Remember that it can take electric cookers longer to heat up than gas ones, but do not despair. Once your oven's maximum heat is reached, the water will bubble away like nobody's business. To prevent steam escaping, it is a splendid idea to cover the pot. If, long ago, when you were feckless, you lost or mislaid the lid of your pot, or if indeed your pot never had a lid, for not all pots do, you can of course improvise a lid using all sorts of debris strewn higgledy-piggledy about your hovel. Just be sure you use flame-resistant debris, please. Now then, while you are waiting for the water to come to the boil, you can go & find the oats while I take a well-earned nap. Let's have a little musical interlude. …..

I am now fully rested and in tiptop condition. Let us press on without further ado, for by now your pot of water should be boiling. Please pay attention, as the next step, if fumbled, will put paid to your dearest wish, which is to make a successful pot of gruel. With your right hand, scoop some oats from the pail. Grasp the lid of the pot, if there is one, in your left hand, & lift it free of the pot. Cast the handful of oats into the seething cauldron & replace the lid. You may repeat this step once or twice, but on no account overdo the oats, as this will spoil your gruel making it too thick, & as the only remedy for this would be to add more water, you would have to return to the spigot, breaking the village curfew, and so risk being clubbed within an inch of your life by merciless curfew-cadets, & your gruel, imperfect though it may be, would then go to waste. Sin upon sin. You are now free to allow the contents of the pot to boil merrily away, although of course from time to time you ought to brandish the big spoon in your fist & give the gruel-to-be a mighty stir. In the intervals between stirrings, you must on no account remain idle. This is the perfect time to read improving passages from the Bible. Indeed, why not throw open your door, stand upright & magnificent in your weed-choked yard, & declaim the scriptures in a booming voice for the benefit of whoe'er may be within earshot in the vast & pitiless night? Two little reminders, though. However resounding your declamation, do not allow into your tone even the most minuscule taint of vanity. Remember that you are merely a vessel, & a singularly unlovely vessel at that - a tarnished urn, say, or a grubby beaker. Second, do not forget the pot, for if it is neglected you are likely to make not gruel, but an inferno. Oh, I said two reminders, but there is a third. Use your cuff to rub a modicum of grime from your hovel window. Do you see a bleak & illimitable vista of ice & snow? Are you marooned in an Arctic wasteland? If so, you may succumb to the delusions of piblokto, in which case you should refrain from following the directions of this recipe until you are relieved of your symptoms & are restored to your usual vigour. I need hardly point out the dangers of cooking when you are bonkers, although I have written an excellent little book entitled "Safe & Simple Snacks For The Bedizened & The Fraught" which is charmingly illustrated. The original pencil sketch of a cream cracker has been framed & displayed on the wall of my splendid restaurant in Haemoglobin Towers. Where were we? Ah yes. Once the gruel is fully boiled, replace the Bible on your lectern, or somewhere at any rate where it will be safe from defilement, if such a cranny exists in your hovel. Hold the spoon in your right hand, removing the pot-lid with your left. Give that gruel one last stir. Remove from heat. Allow to stand for ten minutes. Using a monstrous ladle, transfer into pre-heated tin bowls, & serve. Best eaten with a spoon. Suitable for home freezing.

 

 Yep yep. I totally agree.   

Caps lock will get you no where. No one WON the election. If they did it would not be possible to VOTE them out in parliment.

So I am supposed to take my views from a bunch of hate-spewing- talking points spouting posters hiding behind fake names as indicating the desire of the nation.  You might be that stupid, but most of are not.

You're still on this. Didn't Cueball just clarify this for you. No one won the election. Removing your caps does not make your statement a legitimate one against the coalition. We did not go to the polls to vote for Dion or Harper. We voted for representatives to represent us in parliament. The CPC would form government had they received a majority of the seats, since they did not they needed to have the confidence of the house, which they failed to do that, therefore they should not form government. Our alternative is then another election or a coalition among the opposition. The opposition has decided it can work together, so that's how the story goes. To look at this in the simplistic view that "Dion lost" and "Harper won" is simply incorrect.

We can argue about what kind of coalition this will be, if you agree with the principles of the coalition, and so on, but any questions regarding the legitimacy of the coalition are simply born out of ignorance, in my view.

According to CTV the Angus Reid poll has 40% of Canadians favouring the coalition and 35% favouring a continuation of the Harper gov't (I assume the rest are undecided)

"

In the midst of a coalition showdown, Canadians are deeply divided on whether the Conservatives deserve to stay in power, with 35 per cent saying the party should continue to govern and 40 per cent wanting change, according to an Angus Reid Strategies poll for CTV News.

If the government does collapse, respondents were equally split on whether a coalition government would be the best option for Canada.

Slightly more than a third of Canadians said they would support a coalition government formed by the opposition, when asked about their preferred solution if the government falls:

• Opposition coalition: 37 per cent
• Holding a federal election: 32 per cent
• No sure: 24 per cent
• Allowing the opposition to run by accord: 7 per cent

If the opposition ran the House of Commons by accord, it would mean one ruling party with the support of one or more parties who do not have MPs with cabinet posts.

The online poll, conducted on Dec. 1 and 2, also asked Canadians about their comfort level with the Bloc Quebecois involved in the coalition, and whether they wanted Liberal Leader Stephane Dion as prime minister.

According to the survey, 57 per cent agreed with the statement that they were "worried about the Bloc Quebecois becoming involved in the federal government." Another 30 per cent disagreed.

In Quebec, only 36 per cent agreed, while 47 per cent disagreed with the statement.

Meanwhile, 64 per cent of Canadians across Canada said they would be uncomfortable with Dion as leader of the government, while just 25 per cent said they would be fine with the idea.

In Ontario, where the Liberals traditionally pick up the lion's share of their votes, 60 per cent said they would be uncomfortable with Dion as prime minister. In Alberta, the Conservative heartland, it was 83 per cent.

Under the terms of the coalition, Dion has said he would govern until a new Liberal leader is chosen at a convention in May.

The survey also asked respondents about the issues that sparked serious discussion between the Liberals, NDP and Bloc about a coalition: the need for a significant stimulus package for the economy, and whether political parties should receive public funding.

A full 75 per cent thought the government should implement a stimulus package as soon as possible, while 17 per cent disagreed.

Thirty-four per cent supported political parties receiving public funding based on $1.95 per vote in the general election, while 48 per cent sent thought the parties should rely solely on their own fundraising.

Technical notes:

• The online poll was conducted from Dec. 1 to 2
• It's based on 1,012 randomly-selected Canadian adults
• The margin of error is plus or minus 3.1 per cent, 19 times out of 20
• The results are statistically weighted according to the most current education, age, gender and region census data"

 

 

Actually, Harper's antics from last week led one columnist today to describe him as having the emotional maturity of an 11-year-old.

 

If I were an 11-year-old, I'd sue.

 

And BTW, you might advise your PMO colleagues that 143 seats does not constitute a majority.

 

 

Um, excuse me, moron.  Stephen Harper won 143 seats, which is NOT a majority.

 

Stephane lost, certainly.  But in the face of the weakest Liberal leader ever and the weakest Liberal campain in generations, your childish prick of a leader still couldn't win.

 

Pathetic. 

 

No wonder he surrounds himselves with similiarly stupid and immature buffoons like you in his PMO.

Hmmm.... more people uncomfortable with Dion running the country than with the Bloc's involvement in that.

Of course, even more people are probably uncomfortable with Harper in the saddle... (Pollsters knew better than to ask.)

Why not agree that these are uncomfortable times, and just go shopping/get drunk/none of these options?

I have to say that I am NOT usually one of these people who sees media conspiracies everywhere.  But over the last couple of days, the coverage on CTV of this whole issue has been the most ridiculously biased I've ever seen. This is literally like watching the Canadian equivalent of FOX News.

  Martin, it wasn't asked explictedly in that poll but I think that only 35% that answered yea to the question on whether the Conservatives should continue on is pretty telling.  Harper is pretty much the Conservative party these days. 

 

   Beyond the numbers on the makeup of the government the number that stands out for me the most is the 75% that call for some sort of economic stimulus package with only 17% disagreeing.  That's huge.  

 

 LOL. I was thinking something similar. Where's Canada's version of Nate Silver when you need one.... 

 Thanks for your comments!  This one struck me. I agree.   Though I think that the main problem is that Harper is actually trying to insulate Canadians against thinking that there is even much of  crisis tha they have to do something about and hiding the reality of what is actually happening for partisan reasons.  It seems to have been his strategy all along.  I do realize that Canada is in better shape realtive to other countries but realtive in these times doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.

 He can't seem to make up his mind. When things first hit in the US, the fundementals are strong we're fine, then not so much, then okay maybe there are some things that are a problem, but hey I promise no deficits we're good, then oops sorry we're likely going to have to run deficits,  lots of talk about the size of the deficits, then suddenly magically last week we're okay again with some minor cuts and no deficits and no need for anything else.   Come on. What the heck is it?  

Really am just replying to you to point out how correct you are, in this statement, though you may not understand why, fully.

Have spent the evening reading the Constitutional conventions that apply, why they apply and what is required. And  a bunch of other stuff.

Simply put:

Harper went to the GG and stated he had lost the confidence of the House, and asked her to call an election for Oct 14th. That is how he got around breaking his own election laws.

Now because he did this, after the elction is called, he has no first minister powers per se if he is returned with another minority. This 2nd minority government MUST face a test of confidence with the other ministers, before they have full administrative powers.

However, a second minority elected government Convention also exists which indicates that if a minority government loses confidence, and an election is called and said party is returned with another minority government, it is incumbent upon the minority re-elected party to resign the right to govern (and resignation is the usual convention actually), or it must face immediate testing of the House's confidence. This can be seen to be the election of the Speaker, and of note the CPC person did not make the speaker position, so the House did not show confidence there.

In reality, Harper has tried to do neither required constitutional convention. In fact, he is trying not to, therefore he is trying to circumvent democracy.  And the democratic reality is, immediately after the subsequent minority election he should have resigned,  because if he did not have House confidence before, he would NOT have it the second time. And this is all comes about because he cried non-confidence of the House to the GG the first time. However, he used his slightly increased minority government as an excuse not to resign. But he was and is still compelled to go immediately to the House and ask for a confidence vote.

As such, he has deliberately betrayed Canada, right from telling the GG the House did not have confidence in him, to get around his election laws, to not following democratic conventions and submitting his government to an immediate confidence vote. And that is outside of his BS of last Thursday.

Having said that, he is going to try and get around this breach of immediate testing convention, by saying he did have the confidence of the House because the Liberals initially stated they would support the Throne speech. However, there has NOT yet been a confidence vote. So it would appear, legally by Convention, that he does not yet have full powers of office. Hence he is trying to bully his way out of democracy, as we have it, by lying to the public. It is he who does not have constitutional authority to govern. And it is he who istrying to circumvent democracy. he should have resigned immediately after the elction brought in another minority government for him

It is more than betrayal, it is an attempt to break democracy, which I would call treason.

  Well, most do not understand democratic conventions and the rules, so they/we do not realize that it is he who breaking them. And he is trying to keep them/us from finding out, as are the msm.

___________________________________________________________ "watching the tide roll away"