There's still probably no God By: M. Spector (101 replies) January 29, 2009 - 7:31pmRe: There's still probably no God By: It's Me D (Feb 6 2009 - 12:50pm) Thanks for the By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 12:44pm) Not angry, just disappointed By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 12:41pm) Ah, invective and angry By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 12:32pm) Well I've read your notes to By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 12:35pm) Ah, ridicule and caricature, By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 11:47am) GONG! None of the above for By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 10:01am) The desire for immortality. By: Caissa (Feb 6 2009 - 9:45am) I find people tend to By: wwSwimming (Feb 6 2009 - 9:32am) Re: There's still probably no God By: Unionist (Feb 6 2009 - 8:47am) Catchfire:"Terry Eagleton's By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 8:44am) Re: There's still probably no God By: Boom Boom (Feb 6 2009 - 8:08am) Terry Eagleton's criticism By: Catchfire (Feb 6 2009 - 4:56am) Where we are going is off By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 12:39am) Not sure where you're going By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 12:09am) Yes, and the Church did By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 12:09am) "Why? Because their power By: Peter3 (Feb 5 2009 - 11:38pm) Peter3 wrote: The Bishops By: Fidel (Feb 5 2009 - 11:21pm) Fidel:The Church wasn't all By: Peter3 (Feb 5 2009 - 10:44pm) Michael Nenonen wrote:... I By: Refuge (Feb 5 2009 - 10:28pm) Peter3 wrote: I do believe By: Fidel (Feb 5 2009 - 9:57pm) Michael Nenonen wrote: The By: Peter3 (Feb 4 2009 - 3:25pm) Tommy_Paine wrote: "Do ants By: Fidel (Feb 4 2009 - 12:26pm) Michael Nenonen wrote:... I By: mersh (Feb 4 2009 - 10:59am) Didn't we have this sort of By: Unionist (Feb 4 2009 - 10:56am) Unionist wrote:Michael By: Fidel (Feb 4 2009 - 10:55am) Michael Nenonen wrote:Having By: Unionist (Feb 4 2009 - 10:45am) If people keep dragging up By: M. Spector (Feb 4 2009 - 10:43am) The ads seem to be founded By: Michael Nenonen (Feb 4 2009 - 10:00am) Quote:Halifax’s transit By: M. Spector (Feb 3 2009 - 10:16pm) The United Church joins the By: Doug (Feb 1 2009 - 8:39pm) "Do ants think we are gods? By: Tommy_Paine (Jan 30 2009 - 4:56pm) I have no problem with the By: oldgoat (Jan 30 2009 - 10:06am) Re: There's still probably no God By: Caissa (Jan 30 2009 - 10:04am) I have no problem with the By: Fidel (Jan 30 2009 - 9:52am)
- Let's continue here. By: Michelle (Mar 5 2009 - 2:42pm)
- unionist wrote: People get By: It's Me D (Mar 5 2009 - 2:24pm)
- Well yeah, I take people By: oldgoat (Mar 5 2009 - 2:10pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: Michelle (Mar 5 2009 - 2:04pm)
- oldgoat wrote:I can't help By: Unionist (Mar 5 2009 - 2:03pm)
- Unionist wrote:It's Me D By: Fidel (Mar 5 2009 - 1:57pm)
- Unionist, there's nothing By: oldgoat (Mar 5 2009 - 1:55pm)
- Unionist wrote:Before you By: RosaL (Mar 5 2009 - 1:54pm)
- It's Me D wrote:I know that By: Unionist (Mar 5 2009 - 1:46pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: oldgoat (Mar 5 2009 - 1:44pm)
- There's still probably no By: M. Spector (Mar 5 2009 - 1:40pm)
- Well there's this......son By: oldgoat (Mar 5 2009 - 1:35pm)
- Sven wrote:... when I heard By: Unionist (Mar 5 2009 - 1:30pm)
- What if God By: Doug (Mar 5 2009 - 1:26pm)
- Unionist wrote:Eagleton's By: Sven (Mar 4 2009 - 1:28pm)
- Pity about what happened By: It's Me D (Feb 9 2009 - 10:27am)
- Fidel wrote:I'm out'a this By: Sven (Feb 8 2009 - 12:11am)
- I'm out'a this thread until By: Fidel (Feb 8 2009 - 12:04am)
- Ah, Fidel, or Friedman, By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 8 2009 - 12:02am)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: oldgoat (Feb 7 2009 - 11:59pm)
- NOW the "Frustration" By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 11:57pm)
- Fidel wrote:You're full of By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 11:45pm)
- GOD wrote:Don't make me come By: Sven (Feb 7 2009 - 11:32pm)
- You're full of shit as usual By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 11:31pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: GOD (Feb 7 2009 - 11:25pm)
- Fidel wrote:Frustrated Mess By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 11:22pm)
- Frustrated Mess wrote: After By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 11:22pm)
- After all this time you By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 10:52pm)
- Wasnt it you or a generic By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 10:45pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 10:40pm)
- Frustrated Mess wrote:You By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 10:33pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 9:43pm)
- Frustrated Mess wrote: I By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 9:30pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 9:06pm)
- I can't think on decaf. We By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 8:55pm)
- Hey why dont you two get a By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 8:47pm)
- Frustrated Mess wrote:Now he By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 8:19pm)
- Re: There's still probably no God By: Frustrated Mess (Feb 7 2009 - 8:16pm)
- Fidel wrote:Okay, I get it By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 6:50pm)
- Or how about these.Seven By: NorthReport (Feb 7 2009 - 1:43pm)
- Don't give up, after all By: NorthReport (Feb 7 2009 - 1:38pm)
- Okay, I get it now. Link By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 1:35pm)
- Fidel wrote:I wouldnt mind By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 1:27pm)
- I wouldnt mind your gentle By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 1:25pm)
- Oh, sorry Fidel, you wanted By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 2:37pm)
- Fidel, you shouldn't worry By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 1:15pm)
- Meanwhile, back at the ranch By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 1:34pm)
- Unionist wrote: the By: Slumberjack (Feb 7 2009 - 1:05pm)
- Perhaps unionist could post By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 1:10pm)
- The word "probably" in the By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 12:55pm)
- Can we have a By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 12:55pm)
- Fidel wrote:And Thanks, By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 12:44pm)
- And Thanks, unionist. It By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 1:07pm)
- Fidel wrote: their local By: triciamarie (Feb 7 2009 - 11:43am)
- I lift up my eyes to the By: Unionist (Feb 7 2009 - 11:04am)
- due to a burst of light from By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 11:37am)
- Peter3 wrote: The By: Fidel (Feb 7 2009 - 11:48am)
- Unionist wrote: I think By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 4:13pm)
- duplicate post created by By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 4:02pm)
- Fidel: Jesus wept (a By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 4:04pm)
- It's Me D wrote:Fidel thanks By: Unionist (Feb 6 2009 - 3:47pm)
- So what you're saying is, By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 2:50pm)
- Fidel wrote:Well now you're By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 2:02pm)
- Peter3 wrote:Fidel wrote: By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 1:32pm)
- Fidel wrote: That By: Peter3 (Feb 6 2009 - 1:16pm)
- Well here is another claim By: Fidel (Feb 6 2009 - 1:18pm)
The ads seem to be founded on the same category error that undermines the arguments of people like Dawkins, Dennet, and Harris...
... I'm not sure how atheists would feel about seeing Christian propaganda on the buses they have to take to work every day.
The ads do not categorise anything, based on what I've read. They are a simple statement of perspective.
As for whether Dawkins is refuted by Eagleton, I think Eagleton provides a shining example of the logical emptiness of theist arguments for the existence of God. His primary technique is straw man argumentation, in which he makes claims against Dawkins (e.g. theological illiteracy) which he proceeds from without providing evidence.
Eagleton's arguments are little more than restatements of assumptions. Those that pretend to some more serious standing are primarily ad hominem attacks unjustified by evidence. The theological illiteracy charge is one example among many. For anyone familiar with Eagleton, it is also naked hypocrisy. Frankly, it is not possible to have a serious discussion with such people.
The distinction between religion and spiritualism is one that I freely admit to being unable to get a handle on. It is not from lack of trying. Rather, it seems that the definition of spirituality is vague in the mind of almost all who hew to the concept, and at variance with how many others claiming the same belief see it. To some, spirituality is similar to the deism of Thomas Jefferson, for others it is more akin to simple poetic wonder (which I do believe in, but without the magic bits that spirituality entails). As such it is not something which can be argued against in a general way.
As for how atheists would feel if there were religious ads all around, I can proved direct evidence from personal experience on that. I find it objectionable but unavoidable. I can't imagine how anybody has failed to notice the privileged position of religion in society, the free ride churches receive in terms of their use of public space, their tax exempt status, references to God in the constitution, their legal permission to use the education for purposes of religious propaganda and the like. The proposition that atheists do not daily have their noses rubbed in the superstitous belief of others is just silly. If anything, these ads are merely offering religious believers a taste of soemthing I have experienced every day since I abondoned religious belief as an adolescent. If those who object are willing to take their beliefs behind closed doors and abandon their special privileges, I'm prepared to negotiate on my support for the bus ads.
In most threads of this sort, the claim is made that atheism is merely another dogmatic system of belief. This is an odd argument, to say the least. The principle premises for every atheist I know are that there can be no real belief without reason and that the working assumptions necessary to daily life are all subject to sceptical inquiry and refutation. The refusal of these ads in some communities is good evidence that such a position remains subversive in supposedly secular Canada, the affection of liberal intellectual rhetoric by religious believers notwithstanding.
To address a question from Frustrated Mess on another thread, since closed. I do not propose that religious institutions are the only source of "oppression" or that "there there would be an end to colonization, conquest, and (wo)man's inhumanity to (wo)man" without them. I do believe that it is one of the principle sources of oppression and those other things, and that its absence would mean an end to one of the most universally observed and powerful tools used by oppressors, colonizers, conquerers and the inhumane.