Could FPTP and PR be made compatible? By: Machjo (27 replies) February 5, 2009 - 8:54pm
- Interested Observer By: Wilf Day (Feb 8 2009 - 12:05pm)
- Machjo wrote:In response to By: Interested Observer (Feb 8 2009 - 1:51am)
- Wilf Day wrote:Interested By: Interested Observer (Feb 8 2009 - 1:44am)
- In response to Stockholm's By: Machjo (Feb 7 2009 - 9:19pm)
- Stockholm wrote: "Another By: Machjo (Feb 7 2009 - 9:10pm)
- Machjo wrote:But would the By: Wilf Day (Feb 7 2009 - 5:48pm)
- Just maybe if we made the By: Assembly Talker (Feb 7 2009 - 5:11pm)
- "Another thing I've noticed By: Stockholm (Feb 7 2009 - 12:34pm)
- But would the pro-PR crowd By: Assembly Talker (Feb 7 2009 - 12:22pm)
- Machjo, It depends on how By: Interested Observer (Feb 6 2009 - 8:30pm)
- Assembly Talker wrote: By: Machjo (Feb 6 2009 - 4:38pm)
- Machjo,Citizens Assembly By: Assembly Talker (Feb 6 2009 - 3:10pm)
- mimeguy wrote:The senate By: Policywonk (Feb 6 2009 - 2:41pm)
- My personal favorite is the By: Interested Observer (Feb 6 2009 - 2:00pm)
- sorry for the multiple post By: mimeguy (Feb 6 2009 - 12:16pm)
- sorry for the multiple post By: mimeguy (Feb 6 2009 - 12:16pm)
- The senate needs reform. By: mimeguy (Feb 6 2009 - 12:14pm)
- STV isn't so bad I suppose. By: Machjo (Feb 6 2009 - 11:46am)
- There is no need to invent By: Wilf Day (Feb 5 2009 - 11:14pm)
- "One problem with MMP is By: Stockholm (Feb 5 2009 - 10:57pm)
- Thank you stockholm for the By: Machjo (Feb 5 2009 - 10:16pm)
- Stockholm wrote:The question By: Machjo (Feb 5 2009 - 10:14pm)
- Unionist wrote:Please do not By: Machjo (Feb 5 2009 - 10:03pm)
- Re: Could FPTP and PR be made compatible? By: Unionist (Feb 5 2009 - 9:42pm)
- The question is "could PR By: Stockholm (Feb 5 2009 - 9:41pm)
- Interesting. Have you got a By: Machjo (Feb 5 2009 - 9:04pm)
- It's not what I would By: Fidel (Feb 5 2009 - 9:00pm)
"Another thing I've noticed is that some voters sometimes do not even know the name of teh candidate they're voting for, just voting blindly for the party."
If people don't care about local candidates and just want to vote for a party - that is their right. The fact is that in Canadian politics with our iron-clad party discipline, in about 99% of cases the local candidate IS irrelevant and you are really just voting for a trained seal who will vote with his or her party 100% of the time anyways.
I happen to think very highly of my NDP MP. But if I lived in an NDP dead zone like rural soutehrn Alberta, I would not bat an eyelid before voting for whoever the local NDP candidate was - and I couldn't care less about their personal qualities because in my mind I'm not voting for that person. I'm voting for Jack Layton, the NDP platform and the values that the NDP represents.
And this is where I see a flaw in both FPTP and STV. Since they're based on the candidate and not the party, the result is that if you vote for a candidate based on his party affiliation, and after he gets into Parliament he leaves the party, your vote is lost (it has happened on occiasion after all). That's where MMP or pure RP could be more beneficial to voters like yourself.That's why I was thinking in the original post in this thread of actually giving each voter the choice of voting either for a candidate or pure RP, with the list of all registered parties at that level of government (be it provincial or federal) appearing on one side of the ballot with no candidate's name appearing (besides, it would include all parties, not just those represented in that riding), and the names of all the local candidates on the other but without party affiliation mentioned.
This way, those who vote for parties can in fact vote for a party system whereby if a candidate elected based on party votes should leave his party, those votes can be withdrawn from him, forcing a loval bi-election.
Yet for those who vote for the candidate, any vote received by that candidate belongs to him and cannot be withdrawn even if he should leave his party. The fact that candidates and parties would be kept separate on the ballot would eliminate any possible confusion, with the voter knowing full well whether he's voting for the candidate or the party.
In the end, candidate votes woudl go to the candidate in a traditional FPTP fashion, but party votes would go to individual parties, which the party would be free to give to whatever candidate it wants, likely done strategically to maximize the number of seats for its party in Parliament. This way, a candidate would have a better sense of whether he ought to vote on his own conscience or on that of the party, depending on the sourse of the majority of votes that get him into power.
This would seem to me to be the most fair system to both sides, essentially a combination of both extremes, giving each voter the freedom to choose whether to vote for party or candidate.
Granted, the idea in the OP is still quite crude and would need alot of polishing up to figure out more exactly how the parties would give out the votes to their candidates.
On the other hand, if the PR crowd can accept STV, then essentially the problem is solved.