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The End of Canada's Open Internet?

COAnews
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Joined: Mar 7 2005

The Media democracy movement has propelled Net Neutrality from an obscure issue into a national effort to secure open and equal access to the Internet for all Canadians. NOW is the time to let the CRTC know where YOU stand on Internet freedom: http://tinyurl.com/ccg5mh

Your submissions to the CRTC will be considered in the "traffic management" hearings held later this year. Please take a few seconds to send your comments to the CRTC before the February 23rd deadline: http://tinyurl.com/ccg5mh

We must convince the CRTC to stop big telecoms from controlling our access to the Internet. Bell, Rogers and other large ISPs cannot be allowed to continue serving their own interests by "throttling" Internet traffic.

The decisions made by the CRTC will signal Canada's digital destiny. Your submission could make the difference in whether we have a closed gatekeeper Internet or open online access and innovation.

Remember that you must make your submission before Feb. 23. Please take a few seconds to tell the CRTC that you alone should
control your Internet surfing. http://tinyurl.com/ccg5mh


Comments

jacki-mo
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Joined: Nov 13 2008

In another vein regarding Cancon:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/588749

 


tomtoronto
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Joined: Feb 5 2009

tomtoronto

Thank you COAnews for the link to send a message to the CRTC. Earlier, I had thought that I would take the time to write something out myself, but when I went to the gov't's page for commenting to commissions (http://support.crtc.gc.ca/rapidscin/default.aspx?lang=en), I couldn't figure it out and make it work--I spent a lot of time and got nowhere--until I had inadequate time before the 19th deadline to do the job. Maybe I am a dodo when it comes to reading gov't webstuff, but I found that the process of making a comment to them didn't work for me.  Did anyone else have difficulty with this page (and procedure)? 


MattB
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Joined: May 24 2007
jacki-mo wrote:

In another vein regarding Cancon:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/588749

 That's really interesting reading, although yeah, I don't see how that system would function or how it could be enforced. The idea of establishing funding "by charging fees to Internet users for the creation of broadcast-quality Canadian programming" is a potential red flag, depending on what's meant by "broadcast-quality".


tomtoronto
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Joined: Feb 5 2009

tomtoronto  Here is a CBC link that I think speaks to the problem of the internet in Canada and the question of throttling--basically it mentions the use of fibre for the infrastructure that would make the need for throttling disappear as infrastructure would be able to more than carry the present load.  Then, if this infrastucture deficiency is seen to be the problem (rather than the high traffic) the federal (and other) governments could be approached to get into the act with funds (Harper is content to remain aloof, at the moment). Is real issue here of the internet--throttling, prioritization, monitoring of content, etc. a cover for corporation takeover of the internet that can be addressed (and possibly defeated) by activist discussion of fibre usage in the infrastructure?

Here's the link:  http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/19/google-richard-whitt.html?ref=rss 


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001

CRTC hearings commenced yesterday on Internet traffic management policies - the question of "throttling".

I note that one major priority is the need to provide bandwidth for internet 'gaming'. WTF???


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Well, why not?  Lots of people use the internet for gaming.  And as far as I'm concerned, if you're paying for bandwidth that you're not getting, I don't give a damn WHAT you want to use it for - they're breaching your contract.

People use the internet for all sorts of things, some serious, some work-related, and some recreational.  We shouldn't have to justify WHY we need or want the bandwidth.  It shouldn't be throttled, period.


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001

But why do the providers prioritize gambling over other use? They specifically justify throttling for this purpose.

And why does the CRTC accept this priority?


Snert
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Joined: Nov 4 2008

As I read it, they're referring to gaming (eg:  WoW), not specifically gambling, and their rationale is that gaming, along with VoIP, doesn't tolerate dropped packets well.  Your phone conversation gets a little stilted when your packet is at the back of the line, and/or a Third Level Elf-Mage crushes your skull with The Halberd Of Fire while you're waiting for your screen to refresh. 


Michelle
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Joined: May 10 2001

Oh sorry, I misunderstood!  I thought you were saying that they were saying we need to STOP internet throttling because it throws off gamers.  I thought perhaps their argument was along the lines that they're not just cutting off illegal file-sharing this way, but supposedly "legitimate" uses of bandwidth like gaming.

One that that ticks me off is the fact that, because of throttling and not-so "high speed" internet, I find it just about impossible to upload videos I shoot.  It takes hours, and that's only if I don't get cut off in the middle of transmission.

It's really put a damper on my efforts.  I haven't made a video in ages, because what's the point?


Snert
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Joined: Nov 4 2008

To be fair, your upstream bandwidth will always be less than your downstream.  Of course that's artificial too, and it's so that you don't start running, say, an mp3 server or something, but your upload speed isn't *necessarily* a victim of shaping.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Upload/download speeds will eventually have to have limits due to the ever increasing sophistication of software and communications programs. What piddling bit rates Canadians and Americans are limited to now are built-in limits due to telecom broadband carriers not having invested whopping profits over the years in new infrastructure to reflect the times. They are not real limits. Capitalists tend to create false shortages when desiring to drive up prices for whatever it is theyre selling.


NDPP
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Joined: Dec 28 2008

Battle for Digital Democracy Moves to the Hill:

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2009/07/07/DigitalDemocracy/


Spectrum
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Joined: Sep 27 2008

A standard email response to particpants as to the where things are currently......

Quote:
All-star team to testify before CRTC to save the open Internet

Submitted by Steve Anderson on Tue, 07/07/2009 - 11:46.
Press Release: For Immediate Release July 7, 2009

On Thursday July 9, SaveOurNet.ca coalition members along with network experts will be appearing before the CRTC at the “traffic management” hearing in Gatineau, Quebec to make the case for Net Neutrality. SaveOurNet.ca is also highlighting how people and organizations are using the Internet to bring the hearing to people across the country.


SaveOurNet.ca will make its public interest presentation along with Internet experts Dr. David Reed of MIT, Dr. Andrew Odlyzko of the Minnesota Internet Traffic Studies (MINTS) project, and Bill St. Arnaud, Chief Research Officer for CANARIE Inc., Canada’s Advanced Internet Development Organization. Dr. Reed and Dr. Odlyzko who will be flying to join Bill St. Arnaud, David Fewer, Acting Director at CIPPIC, and Steve Anderson, National Coordinator of SaveOurNet.ca and Campaign for Democratic Media.


Earlier this year, a formal submission was presented to the CRTC traffic management hearing on behalf of the broad based SaveOurNet.ca coalition and all Canadians. The submission included testimony from network engineers illustrating that Internet Service Providers have no technical need to unilaterally limit access to online services and content.


Over the past six months, the CRTC has received well over 11,000 comments calling for the regulator to preserve the open Internet. The decisions made by the CRTC will signal Canada's digital path and have serious implications for privacy, innovation, security, consumer choice and creativity.


SaveOurNet.ca is encouraging people to follow the hearing at http://www.SaveOurNet.ca/hearing where there will be daily updates and postings about the ongoings of the hearing. People can also get involved via live twitter posts from CIPPIC, along with Michael Geist, and SaveOurNet.ca who will also be making twitter and blogposts about the hearing.



Key links for the hearing:
http://www.SaveOurNet.ca/hearing
http://twitter.com/cippic
http://www.michaelgeist.ca


For more information contact:

Steve Anderson
Co-founder
SaveOurNet.ca and CDM
(604) 837-5730
steve@democraticmedia.ca
http://saveournet.ca


David A. Fewer
Acting Director
CIPPIC
The Samuelson-Glushko Canadian Internet Policy & Public Interest Clinic
Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa
(613)562-5800 ext. 2558
www.cippic.ca

About SaveOurNet.ca: SaveOurNet.ca is a coalition of citizens, businesses, and public interest groups fighting to protect our Internet's level playing field.

About CIPPIC: CIPPIC is the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic, Canada’s only technology law clinic. CIPPIC was established in 2003 at the University of Ottawa, Faculty of Law, Common Law Section. CIPPIC’s mandate is to advocate for balance in policy and law-making on issues arising out of new technologies.

About CDM: CDM is a network of public interest organizations and people pushing for media democracy in Canada.


Abbreviated bios for our network engineers:

Dr. David P. Reed
Dr. David P. Reed Currently Adjunct Professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology’s Media Laboratory, Dr. Reed has played a significant role in the development of the underlying architecture of the Internet, contributing to the design and development of IP, TCP, and UDP – the protocols central to today's Internet. Dr. Reed co-authored the seminal paper establishing the “end-to-end” networking principle. Along with Andrew Lippman, Dr. Reed currently heads the Viral Communications group at MIT Media Lab. He is also a founding director of the MIT Communications Futures Program. Dr. Reed is also currently an HP Fellow at Hewlett-Packard Laboratories. He has served on the Technological Advisory Council of the Federal Communications Commission.


Spectrum
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Joined: Sep 27 2008
Did the CRTC Misunderstand the CAIP Throttling Case Against Bell? PDF  | Print |  E-mail
Quote:
Wednesday July 08, 2009 Today's CRTC network management hearing featured some stunning discussion on the throttling of wholesale services that undoubtedly left many observers wondering whether the Commission actually understood what it was doing in the CAIP throttling complaint against Bell (CAIP has asked the Commission to reconsider the decision).  The discussion started when MTS Allstream adopted the position that dominant carriers should not be permitted to throttle or traffic shape at the wholesale level.  In other words, any traffic management practices should be limited to the ISP that interacts directly with a customer at the retail level.  MTS argued that the wholesale service (known as GAS or Gateway Access Service) is more like a private virtual network, where the ISP is purchasing capacity.  The GAS is not strictly an Internet service and MTS assured the Commission that the use of the wholesale services should not have a congestion impact on the carrier's retail Internet services.

This is relevant since the CAIP complaint involved GAS.  CAIP was concerned that Bell's throttling was being done not to relieve congestion, but rather for competitive reasons.  It believed that Bell was concerned that independent ISPs would offer retail customers non-throttled services (which ISPs like TekSavvy did), which might lead some to consumers to leave Bell (which they began to do).  Of course, this is an illustration of why competition would address many net neutrality concerns (assuming consumers can choose an alternate provider).  Yet Bell's approach was to throttle everyone's service at the retail and wholesale level, so that this form of competition would be eliminated.  And the CRTC, perhaps not even understanding the specifics of the services at issue, let them get away with it.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Why Broadband Prices Haven’t Decreased (U.S.)

Quote:
Greenstein says that a 2003 decision to leave regulation up to the broadband companies themselves has caused much of the stagnation in broadband service prices.

Adam Smith wrote:
"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
 

So much for deregulation. Puh! 


trippie
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Joined: Feb 14 2006
Come on now Fidel, you know the market is always correct? Prices don't go up because of a conspiracy. They go up because that is the correct selling price according to science. And the science of capitalist markets is freedom and democracy. Their numbers are like money in the bank my friend. Money in the bank.

Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

They just want the freedom to rob us blind is all.


Lard Tunderin Jeezus
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Joined: Aug 27 2001

Priority given to 'gaming' begins to make sense. Can't have anything interfering with government revenue streams....


thorin_bane
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Joined: Jun 19 2004

My dad talks about that a lot. He siad its only illegal until the government does it. He was refering to "a numbers racket" that the mobs use to run. Which today we call the 6/49..remember it illegal to have(by law) a hockey pool, but pro line is great ask don cherry,


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

The feds can do it or the mafia, one or the other. Personally I think that if it has to be done, then I'd rather the feds. Depends on what they do with the profits though. Donating to charities is a good idea, which is what OLG has been doing for years. I don't think organized crime would be as charitable.


Spectrum
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Joined: Sep 27 2008
LETTER START

Quote:
As I turn on my computer to begin this letter, I log into Windows and receive a notification that an update is available for Java. Something I’ve seen a hundred times before and never really given much thought to. But this time something else crosses my mind; how big is the update? How much data will be downloaded to my computer? I read each of the prompts that come up on my screen, a little more closely than previously, looking for some indication of file size, but I see nothing. I go ahead with the update, but not without some concern. The issue? Something as simple as a software update on my computer may actually end up costing me money........

Spectrum
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Joined: Sep 27 2008
thorin_bane
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Joined: Jun 19 2004

Yep they are now provider, producer, distribution, and gateway. WAY too much media concentration for bell. Not good and only going to get worse.


Snert
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Joined: Nov 4 2008

Quote:
Where we could once pay a single monthly bill for our internet, we will now be paying not only the bill, but also the extra fees for having used more data than the Internet Service Providers think we should be using.

 

It's not about what a provider "thinks you should be using" any more than my hydro bill is all about how much electricity OPG thinks I should be using.

 

It's about what I've USED. How much I chose to use.

 

When the day comes that there's unlimited bandwidth I'll expect to pay a set price for that. But until then, someone tell me how it's odious for high-volume users to pay for the volume they use, rather than being subsidized by grandma who reads her e-mail twice a week? And please spare us a bunch of chin music about "what could be" -- we can deal with utopian scenarios when we get there.


kropotkin1951
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Joined: Jun 6 2002

Snert wrote:

 And please spare us a bunch of chin music about "what could be" -- we can deal with utopian scenarios when we get there.

All Hail the status Quo right Snert.  No point in discussing anything is there?

Please spare us your condescending attitude towards anything that requires you to think outside of the box you are imprisoned in.  


Snert
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Joined: Nov 4 2008

I don't really mind discussing "what could be", so long as we all understand that we're not there yet. 

Right now we don't have unlimited bandwidth, just as we don't have unlimited renewable energy.  So right now, I really don't see any odious evils hiding behind pay for use.  And considering that a flat fee internet, right now would mean high-volume NetFlix users being subsidized by low bandwidth users, I'm not sure why anyone else would, either.

We sure as hell wouldn't accept a flat-fee hydro service, so that suburbanites can run their three air conditioners and their 2,000 light Christmas display, subsidized by the guy in the bachelor apartment with a bar fridge.  So what makes IP traffic somehow different?  Enlighten me.


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

Snert wrote:
We can deal with utopian scenarios when we get there.

There's little time for any of that at the moment.  We're too busy dealing with the Capitalist utopia, where they get to do whatever they want for more profit.


6079_Smith_W
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Joined: Jun 10 2010

WHile I think any new fees need to be done in an equitable way, and I think throttling is unfair penalizing of legal torrent use, this is not a threat to internet freedom so much as a potential cash grab.

Like it or not internet traffic is reaching the limits of current infrastructure. As in other realms, the notion that we can have limitless growth is an illusion.

But when it comes to actual freedom, I am much more concerned about the threat of ISPs turning over customer browsing information, either by agreeing to is, or by force.

Also, their compliance may not be necessary, given current technology that can pick a user's computer out of hundreds of thousands simply by reading personal settings.

 


Slumberjack
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Joined: Aug 8 2005

It's a total cash grab.  They certainly won't reduce anyone's monthy internet bill to zero and start from there based on usage.  More than likely, they'll maintain the same service provider/connection charge they do now, and bill upwards from there.


Fidel
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Joined: Apr 29 2004

Snert wrote:
And please spare us a bunch of chin music about "what could be" -- we can deal with utopian scenarios when we get there.

Oh you must be referring to those real countries again, like France where they're paying $40 bucks a month for connections four times faster on average.

L'Amour Toujours L'Amour L'Amourrrr


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