babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
Support rabble | Advertise with us | Contact our staff | About rabble | Log-in or Register for a new account | Corrections | Privacy policy | Newsfeeds | Mailing lists
rabble: Features | Columnists | In Cahoots | Blogs | Books | Photos | What's Up | Polls
babble: Forum Topics | Active Topics
The rpn: About the RPN | Become a podcaster
rabbleTV: Program Guide | Features | Indie Inside | Best of the net
Copyright © 2001-2013 the authors
Syndicate
You haven't heard of John Turmel?
Incidently one can vote in this poll more than once. I have voted 3X, and each time it said thank you for voting. Often this is true with small newspaper polls.
You can go back and vote again, if you shut down your computer, and than reconnect to the internet. It doesn't recognize your ip. Make no mistake, the cons know how to frip this poll. You are right it is meaningless, but most folks don't know that it is meaningless, and it might sway someone to think about a particular candidate if their local newspaper is showing some support.
Go ahead, vote again, as long as you have gone up the internet for a certain amount of time, and go back in and go to the page.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
That would work for dialup, and not all polls are that easily manipulated. Even online newspaper ones. But so be it.
Just for fun, I tried it and the vote was allowed, but the count did not change. Other online ones say you already voted.
Even Still, I have seen when GP members mount an online voting campaign, and when the online poll doesn't bear any resemblence to facts on the ground, or historical voting intention, you know the poll is screwed.
However, I do believe that this poll suggests some truth in that the Conservatives hold the riding and John Tory is likely the front runner. The Liberal is likely to hold much of his vote, and the NDP is in 3rd but with possibly more or less support, but certainly could use more active NDPers voting in an online poll ........ NOT.
That independent has alot of votes ...... ;)
I actually live in the riding - in the *gasp* rural area. Even here there is distrust of Tory. It is not that people want to vote Liberal, but that they are upset that the former MPP resigned. She was very popular and people are upset that she quit.
As for the online polls, I would just take them as fun. It gets people talking and thinking about issues. It's interesting to note, though, that the Haliburton Echo www.haliburtonecho.ca (also in the riding) has a very similar poll.
I've been watching it for a while and it seems that the votes come in partisan waves. At first the Liberal was way out ahead and now Tory is. NDP has 11% and Green has but one vote.
Another opinion on the candidates - the NDP candidate is just brutal. She does not have a knowledge of the area's issues and is like a one-track candidate. There is no question asked of her that is not answered "more money for health care and education."
Yuck!
The local NDP candidate would do well to talk to local trustees, particularly the largest public board in her area. Oops, Rick Johnston was the chair. Best to talk to another trustee on the board. I know one.
She could than talk meaningfully about education issues than "just more money" which are a related problem but not the whole thing, it's more complex. Maybe she should talk with Rosario, our ed critic. He could give her some indepth on education and the "real issues" of concern in mainly rural area of delivery.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
I think the Tories are wondering the same thing of McGuinty and his budget to deal with the recession. Ontario is behind other jurisdictions for laying out a plan to deal with job losses and general all around failure of the neoliberal setup. And it means that Ontarians will suffer the consequences. McGuinty and his Liberals are incompetent.
"The local NDP candidate would do well to talk to local trustees, particularly the largest public board in her area. Oops, Rick Johnston was the chair. Best to talk to another trustee on the board. I know one. "
Earl Manners?
Anyway, if it's about a 10-point gap over the Liberals, remember that Ernie Eves won with a similar gap in his 2002 byelection...
Maybe, but Mike Shriener is the kind of person we should be recruiting. The NDP would be smart if they try to bring Mike into the fold after this foray into politics. At a recent progressive farm issues meeting in the area Liberals and Greens made sure there was someone prominent in the audience.
Oh, I agree. But, he has no more claim to running in HKLB than Tory.
And on that I agree. Other than Shriener probably at least knew where Lindsay was before the by-election. I'm not sure the same could be said for Tory.
Interesting take on the by-election from Inside Queen's Park
BY-ELECTION UPSET?
Could John Tory be defeated on March 5? LIB spindoctors have at any rate succeeded in putting into serious discourse the possibility that Rick Johnston might take back the Haliburton seat and cripple the PC leader. (IQP recalls Mike Harris’s media man, Peter Varley, successfully putting across the notion that his party could not expect to break the Opposition hold on Leslie Frost’s old turf – translating into even bigger PC momentum stories when Chris Hodgson took the Victoria-Haliburton seat in the May 1994 vote.)
If Tory is defeated, it will mark a return for the PCs to the internal wrangling which long was that party’s baneful state at the federal level. Ironically, that would be re-emerging just as Bob Rae’s elegant refusal to be bitter about Michael Ignatieff’s installation as federal leader gives the LIBs a chance to get beyond the internecine strife which has blighted that party nationally for a generation.
Already, there are poll figures (from little-known Holinshed Research Group) being peddled by an outfit which trades as Concerned Conservatives of Ontario purporting to prove that Tory isn’t acceptable in the byelection riding. Laurie Scott’s departure is opposed by 70% of party supporters while 41% of Haliburton PCs are less likely to keep the party faith with the leader on the ballot. Speaking for CCO is electrical contractor Walter Pamic, whom IQP has encountered among activists of the andowners’ Association, whose effective leader is Lanark-Frontenac MPP Randy Hillier.
Yeah, but Dufferin-Caledon seems more "carpetbaggable" by suits than HKB.
Earl Manners is not an elected school trustee but human resource superintendent at the local public school board. Although we all care about kids and their education needs, a trustee comes from the best interest of kids, parents, and local communities. We also want to ensure that our employees have good places to work in and have the resources to do the best job - excellence in education and student achievement.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
Have there already been debates? I hear that there is alot of Job loss in the region. Are you suggesting that when asked that question the NDP candidate says "More money for health care and education". Because the funny part is, when the people are losing their jobs by the 10s of thousands in my region, the Liberals McGuinty, seem to spend more time talking about education and health care and are MUTE when it comes to jobloss.
Hear is the first release I was aware of from the NDP candidate.
See, I believed you when you said, health care and education is the only thing the NDP candidate commented on. Then I googled.....
At what event did you meet the candidates? What are the local issues?
I believe the Liberals are going to spare no expense to try to win this riding.
If they do they would be making a mistake. For the Liberals John Tory is the gift that keeps on giving. If they win I expect it will be in despite of their best efforts to not really win. If this was closer to the next election I could go for them working all out, but right now their best option is a continued Tory presence with him embattled from all sides.
I expect a lot of Liberals to stay home, or to 'help' the team by voting Tory.
If that were true BA, then why did McGuinty break tradition and field a candidate???
That's what she says when you ask about jobs. "More money for health care and education will bring more jobs."
That's fine, but that's not the answer to every question.
The first debate was tonight. Lyn did marginally better, but wasn't a great public speaker. She has improved on the issues somewhat.
Schreiner (Green) was actually the most impressive candidate.
If Schreiner is the most impressive Candidate, what does this say about John Tory. John Tory should be crushing the field. If he can't win a debate in the minors, how does he ever expect to win one in the Majors?
Debates aside, they don't mean anything to the public. The Public pays little attention.
So, how many people were there and which candidate did you come out to support?
I am also curious. What are the local issues???
Being that someone from Toronto could handle a local debate on Local issues better then two homegrown candidates interests me.
John Tory a Lame DUCK
What is funny, is this guy sounds more like a New Democrat then a Conservative. But like many working people, likes to support the policies of a government that puts them in the position they are complaining about.
At least he has put his $200 down, but he would do better to have run with a Party. I like a person who recognises what is happening to his friends.
There were about 150 people there. That's a pretty good turnout in bad winter weather in cottage country.
The issues that came out strongest at the meeting were uranium mining (the east side of the county has been pegged for an open pit mine), funding for the arts, health care spending and a couple questions about whether this is a "democratic" or necessary election at all.
Strangely, no one asked about jobs. Talking to someone afterward, he suggested that was because this area has been so bad for jobs for so long no one can feel the recession here.
Thanks Jenn.
150 People is a very good turnout under any kind of conditions. What you point out about the jobs makes sense. People become descensitized to the reality if it has been around long enough.
Obviously some people are ticked about the by election.
Do most people share this opinion on the Uranium mining???
I appreciate you answering my questions. Was the FCP candidate and the Independent at the debate?
That has got to be one of the Largest Rural/small community ridings I have seen. How can a candidate cover such a large area???
Ask Howard Hampton.
The candidates were split on uranium mining. Liberal said that the mining act was under consultation right now and nothing should happen until that was resolved.
Tory said that there should be a moratorium on mining while issues of safety and rights of landowners are resolved.
NDP said that we should be moving to renewable energy and was against the mine.
Green said the same.
The Family Coalition candidate ... I can't remember what he said, actually. Freedom party said he was against the mine.
The independent was the only one who said he was for the mine.
Many people asked questions about mining, storing waste and nuclear energy. Although all but one candidate said "no" to the mine, only the NDP and Green parties said that nuclear energy wasn't the way to go.
Every municipal council in our county has supported a moratorium on uranium mining, although there is only a threat of mining in Highlands East, which is the east side municipality with only about 2,000 people.
The riding is huge and this creates some problems for candidates. One example of that is that everyone who is running, except the Family Coalition member is from the south end, which is very different from the north end.
To someone in our county, a candidate from Lindsay is just as foreign as one from Toronto. For example, both the Freedom Party candidate and the Independent talked about manufacturing job loss and farming. We don't really have much arable land here and only very small and few farm operations. We're a tourist area with massive unemployment (30% in the winter) and very little in the way of manufacturing.
For candidates to come talking to us about keeping the family farm is almost irrelevant, but it is VERY relevant to those in Lindsay, Cannington, etc. because they are farmers.
Understandably, because of his immense ability to allocate research resources, Tory has been very good at capturing the sentiment of this riding, while "local" candidates from the south don't know what to say because they don't know our experience.
This puts the NDP candidate at a disadvantage - I think this has been part of the reason why she talks so much about health care, but so little about tourism, logging, attracting industry, seniors, etc.
And, when it comes to votes, we have very few in comparison to the southern area, so perhaps it's not worth the energy to find those answers.
Are you speaking in terms of raw numbers, or in terms of share? Because when it comes to share, the "uranium belt" (Cardiff and environs, I presume) has actually been historically above average for the NDP by riding standards. And if one considers how much it has in common with resource-dependent, NDP-friendly Northern Ontario, it shouldn't be so surprising.
I mean in raw numbers. Cardiff has a population of ... I'd guess maybe 300 people. That might be too high. So it's a pretty small number of votes.
I see your point about resource-dependent areas, but there has been no mining in Cardiff for 50 years. Money is made by those who work outside of the community in Bancroft, Peterborough or Haliburton.