babble is rabble.ca's discussion board but it's much more than that: it's an online community for folks who just won't shut up. It's a place to tell each other — and the world — what's up with our work and campaigns.
The Conflict of Sri Lanka and Tamil Eelam in the island of Ceylon
Dubious is right; downright dishonest sums it up better though... your claim that is.
Oh D, there's no need to drag your disagreements with me into other threads. Do try and be civil.
It turns out that I still have the paper on my harddrive, but it doesn't look like I used the fact in the paper itself, but from the bibliography I think it might be in one of these two works:
Sankaran Krishna. Postcolonial Insecurities. Borderlines vol. 15. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1999.
Magnus Norell. “A New Medievalism? – The case of Sri Lanka”. New-Medievalism and Civil Wars. Neill Winn (ed.). London: Frank Cass, 2004.
It turns out that I still have the paper on my harddrive, but it doesn't look like I used the fact in the paper itself, but from the bibliography I think it might be in one of these two works:
Can you give us the title and author of the paper or the link so that we can see it online.
The author of the paper was *me*, and it is not online.
I'm afraid that those are the only two sources it may have come from, or it could have been some other source I didn't use at all - but I'm reasonably sure I can be found it in one of the above.
Oh D, there's no need to drag your disagreements with me into other threads. Do try and be civil.
My posts in the Venezuela threads are just to counter lies and misinformation. This however is a thread I have a great deal of interest in and have been posting in since it started. I have also posted on all the previous Sri Lanka threads here, and prior to thirusuj's arrival also started all the threads on the topic on Babble since signed up here. I don't recall your participation in those threads and for you to suggest that I'm posting in this one just because you did is idiotic.
I'm here because I care about the subject at hand; I posted my response to you because as usual you were engaged in spreading falsehoods. I'm not certain what noble work you and Sven and Stockholm and Babble's other historical pro-imperialism posters think your doing but if you're going to post in this thread could you try and add some value to it? Otherwise you're just wasting space.
Please to be identifying the falsehoods I have been spreading.
In this thread? Your first comment perhaps:
A_J wrote:
While doing some research into the conflict a few years ago, I saw it quoted somewhere that the LTTE has the dubious distinction of having killed more Tamils throughout this conflict than either the Sri Lankan or Indian governments combined.
Though I'm not sure how you couldn't put that together on your own, since I replied and said as much immediately.
Today, there are massive rallies going in front of the UN head office in Geneva and White House in the US.
You can watch the live streaming of the rally in Geneva soon as you enter http://vakthaa.tv/. It is happening as you read the email. I don't believe the US rally has started yet.
Furthermore, I have heard a story that 50 buses of people went from Canada to the US for the protest. 10 buses were denied entry into the United States because the influence of the Sri Lankan government. This is disgraceful that a foreign government has influence over right Canadian citizen's to organize and protest in North America.
If I get more information, I will pass it on. Please circulate information.
I won't repeat my comments from the other thread but I certainly wish those at the rallies (or trying to attend them) well.
Troy I am curious about your interest in the subject; I'm not a Tamil myself, just a supporter, how about you? That is if you don't mind sharing your reasons for following this subject (its not really a popular one afterall).
WASHINGTON, Feb. 18 - Over 3,000 supporters, advocacy groups, and leaders are expected to rally across from the White House on Friday, February 20, 2009 from 11:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. An audio video press event is scheduled at the National Press Club from 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. on February 20th located at 529 14th Street NW, 13th floor Lisagor Room, Washington DC, 20045.
The rally will protest the ongoing daily atrocities inflicted by the Sinhalese Buddhist Government of Sri Lanka against Tamil civilians uninvolved in the longstanding ethnic conflict with the Tamil Tigers, including repeated bombing and shelling of hospitals and a bogus "safety zone" into which more than 300,000 civilians have been herded.
Asha Ramachandran is a lawyer in Philadelphia and a new mother. Balan Balasingham is an engineer in South Brunswick, N.J., with three kids.
Both are 40-year-old Tamils, an ethnic group from Sri Lanka, an island off the tip of India formerly called Ceylon. And both plan to attend a rally today in Washington, D.C., organized by a group called Tamils Against Genocide.
They plan to go to the White House and the State Department, calling on the U.S. to press for an end to warfare between the Sri Lankan army and rebels known as the Tamil Tigers.
Oops, cross-posted with troy doing the same thing! I couldn't find any article about the buses being turned back though troy, any news on that?
I am Tamil and I want the world to hear our cries. No one really covers our rallies on TV. We need to create our own ways of passing on the news.
Thanks for sharing, and welcome to babble troy! I agree about the difficulties in getting the word out, the MSM's coverage of Sri Lanka (or lack thereof) is abysmal. Good luck spreading the word, I do my part here in rural Nova Scotia but let me tell you theres a lot of work to be done here! Its nice to see we have two bonafide Tamils here now, I hope you stick around and get a chance to participate in babble's discussions, thirusuj has done a good job already (in this thread for example) at getting the word out.
Sri Lankans living in the US have organized an anti-LTTE protest campaign. It will be held today in front of the White House in Washington. Sri Lankans living in the states of New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia, North Carolina, Los Angeles and Florida are due to participate in the protest. The campaign is aimed at calling on the LTTE to release Tamil civilians in their clutches and also to express support to the Sri Lankan government for its anti-terrorism drive.
It would appear they are either trying to misrepresent the rally we've been discussing or they are referring to a counter-protest which I have not found any info about anywhere else... although perhaps I don't know all the best places to look!
Yes. I heard about that. They are trying to misrepresent our message. The government of Sri Lanka is always behind these problems. They have people in the international community who cause these problems. Usually the brains behind these operations in Canada is Lankan Counsel General in Toronto Bandulla Jayasekara and the Sri Lankan Embassies.
Today, they know that the Tamil people are all going to be there at Washington. Therefore, they are trying to reduce the amount of people who can attend the rally by making sure buses don't pass the US border to protest infront of the White house.
Unrelated to today's rallies here is a link to (and excerpt from) a Gwynne Dyer piece about about the conflict in Sri Lanka that came out today; I don't know if this counts as the mainstream media but I was reasonably pleased with its conclusion, considering the source (not news to anyone who's informed about the subject, but thats not many people!):
Open war broke out in 1983, with the Tamil Tigers rapidly eliminating the rival Tamil separatist groups and establishing totalitarian control over the population under their rule.
Twenty-six years later, the Tamil Tigers' army has finally been crushed, and the Sri Lankan state (in practice, the Sinhalese state) is triumphant.
But the 12% of the population who are Tamils will still not accept unequal status, and are not going away.
This is the time when a peace that gives the Tamils equal rights and autonomous local governments in the areas where they are a majority could secure the country's future, but it is most unlikely to happen.
Sinhalese nationalism is as intolerant as ever, and now it is triumphalist to boot.
Moreover, the rapid growth of a "national security state" under President Rajapaksa has undermined democracy and largely silenced criticism of government policies.
The forecast, therefore, is for a reversion to guerrilla war in the north, and continuing campaigns of murder by both the Government and Tamil extremists in the rest of the country.
Its funny that these times of "peace" would present the Sinhalese regime a chance to provide equality and autonomy to the Tamils, since that is what the LTTE is fighting for! You could also say that, with military victory seemingly in hand, there has never been a time when there was less pressure on the Sinhalese state to provide these things for their Tamil citizens.
Today, they know that the Tamil people are all going to be there at Washington. Therefore, they are trying to reduce the amount of people who can attend the rally by making sure buses don't pass the US border to protest infront of the White house.
Turning people away from demonstrations is awful and bad enough (though it happens a lot here in North America) but to think that people in Sri Lanka (who have a hard enough time getting access to free media as it is) would be presented with news of these rallies and tricked into thinking that the rallies are in support of the Sinhalese regime... disgusting! I doubt many people would be taken in by it though, afterall who demonstrates in favor of the genocide of their own people? I suppose this is for their Sinhala-supporter audience.
Sri Lankan Defence Minister, Gotabhaya Rajapaksa Said to his troops "Make the Tamil Women as the feast of our army, while letting the men's blood drip into a red sea".
I can't believe a Sri Lankan Defence Minister (Gotabhaya Rajapaksa) who is also a US Citizen would have the guts to say this. Shame!
Why do you suppose CUPE-Ontario doesn't pass a resolution demanding a boycott of Sri Lankan academic institutions and an embargo on trade with Sri Lanka? The only explanation i can think of is that Sid Ryan finds the conflict in Sri Lanka to be too boring to get involved in compared to the Middle East.
Well, The Palestinians have educated them while the Tamils have not at the moment. With many of the Tamil youths taking up this cause we hope to replace our previous generation who failed to reach out to our fellow Canadians and organization like CUPE-Ontario. We have members and many of your youths are setting up meetings and so on and updating them on this issue. Lets hope that CUPE-Ontario responds in a positive manner.
We are trying to get the attention of CNN to go to Sri Lanka and report or start digging the media restrictions. Please sign the petition so we can get the truth out of Sri Lanka......We are targeting Anderson Cooper....
The greatest mistakes are made on the morrow of the greatest victories. Sri Lanka is now approaching a decisive victory in its 26-year war against Tamil separatism, and it is about to make a very big mistake.
"While separatist terrorism must be eradicated," wrote Lasantha Wickrematunge, editor of the Sunday Leader, "it is important to address the root causes of terrorism, and urge government to view Sri Lanka's ethnic strife in the context of history and not through the telescope of terrorism. We have agitated against state terrorism in the so-called war against terror, and made no secret of our horror that Sri Lanka is the only country in the world routinely to bomb its own citizens."
Wickrematunge left that on his computer, to be published if he was murdered, which he duly was last month. He knew it was going to happen, and he believed that he knew who would be responsible: the government. Which is why he addressed President Mahinda Rajapaksa directly in his post-mortem article.
. . .
"In the wake of my death," Wickrematunge wrote, "I know you (President Rajapaksa) will make all the usual sanctimonious noises...but like all the inquiries you have ordered in the past, nothing will come of this one. For truth be told, we both know who will be behind my death, but dare not call his name. [Almost certainly Defence Secretary Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the president's brother.] Not just my life but yours too depends on it."
Like the United States under President Bush, Sri Lanka has ceased to respect the law in its fight against "terrorism". Since the Tamil minority began fighting for a separate state in 1983, over 70,000 people have been killed in Sri Lanka, the majority of them civilians -- and since President Rajapaksa took power in 2004 fourteen journalists have been murdered by unknown assailants.
Rajapaksa is now on the brink of destroying the rebel army, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam ("Tamil Tigers"). Even one year ago they still controlled some 15,000 sq. km (6,000 sq. mi) in the north and north-east of the island, where they maintained all the institutions of a sovereign state. But the relentless offensive of the Sri Lankan army has now reduced them to only a couple of hundred square kilometres (less than a hundred square miles) of territory.
Within a week or two, that will be gone too, and what remains of the Tamil Tigers will no longer control a pseudo-state. Good riddance, for they were brutal extremists who killed their own Tamil people, in order to enforce unquestioning obedience, just as readily as their suicide bombers killed the majority Sinhalese population. But that doesn't mean that Sri Lanka can just go back to the kind of country it was before the fighting began in 1983. The Tamils had a reason to revolt.
Tamil-speaking Hindus have been part of Sri Lanka's complex ethnic and religious mosaic for centuries, but they are only 12 percent of the population. They got along well enough with the Sinhalese-speaking, Buddhist majority when the island was first united under British imperial rule in the early 19th century, but after that the relationship went rapidly downhill.
The British, in typical divide-and-rule style, favoured the Tamil minority in education and in civil service jobs. Sinhalese resentment grew rapidly, and the first Sinhalese-Tamil riots were in 1939. As in the subsequent bouts of killing, most of the victims were Tamils.
Once independence arrived in 1948, the Sinhalese used their majority to pass laws giving members of their own community preference for university entrance and government jobs, and Sinhala was declared the sole national language. As Sinhalese and Tamil ethnic nationalism grew more extreme, some of the riots in the 1960s and 1970s verged on anti-Tamil pogroms.
By the late 1970s the process of setting up a shadow Tamil state in the north and north-east had begun. Open war broke out in 1983, with the Tamil Tigers rapidly eliminating the rival Tamil separatist groups and establishing totalitarian control over the population under their rule.
Twenty-six years later, the Tamil Tigers' army has finally been crushed, and the Sri Lankan state (in practice, the Sinhalese state) is triumphant. But the 12 percent of the population who are Tamils will still not accept unequal status, and they are not going away.
This is the time when a peace that gives the Tamils equal rights and autonomous local governments in the areas where they are a majority could secure the country's future, but it is most unlikely to happen.
Sinhalese nationalism is as intolerant as ever, and now it is triumphalist to boot. Moreover, the rapid growth of a "national security state" under President Rajapakse has undermined democracy and largely silenced criticism of government policies. The forecast, therefore, is for a reversion to guerilla war in the north, and continuing campaigns of murder by both the government and Tamil extremists in the rest of the country.
Gunmen have attacked a bus carrying the Sri Lankan cricket team on its way to play in the Pakistani city of Lahore.At least six policemen escorting the team bus were killed, along with a driver. Seven cricketers and an assistant coach were injured.... Our correspondent says security forces will be investigating any connections to al-Qaeda and Taleban militants as well as Kashmiri jihadi groups.
Oh D, there's no need to drag your disagreements with me into other threads. Do try and be civil.
It turns out that I still have the paper on my harddrive, but it doesn't look like I used the fact in the paper itself, but from the bibliography I think it might be in one of these two works:
Sankaran Krishna. Postcolonial Insecurities. Borderlines vol. 15. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 1999.
Magnus Norell. “A New Medievalism? – The case of Sri Lanka”. New-Medievalism and Civil Wars. Neill Winn (ed.). London: Frank Cass, 2004.
Can you give us the title and author of the paper or the link so that we can see it online.
The author of the paper was *me*, and it is not online.
I'm afraid that those are the only two sources it may have come from, or it could have been some other source I didn't use at all - but I'm reasonably sure I can be found it in one of the above.
My posts in the Venezuela threads are just to counter lies and misinformation. This however is a thread I have a great deal of interest in and have been posting in since it started. I have also posted on all the previous Sri Lanka threads here, and prior to thirusuj's arrival also started all the threads on the topic on Babble since signed up here. I don't recall your participation in those threads and for you to suggest that I'm posting in this one just because you did is idiotic.
I'm here because I care about the subject at hand; I posted my response to you because as usual you were engaged in spreading falsehoods. I'm not certain what noble work you and Sven and Stockholm and Babble's other historical pro-imperialism posters think your doing but if you're going to post in this thread could you try and add some value to it? Otherwise you're just wasting space.
In this thread? Your first comment perhaps:
Though I'm not sure how you couldn't put that together on your own, since I replied and said as much immediately.
You can watch the live streaming of the rally in Geneva soon as you enter http://vakthaa.tv/. It is happening as you read the email.
I don't believe the US rally has started yet.
Furthermore, I have heard a story that 50 buses of people went from Canada to the US for the protest. 10 buses were denied entry into the United States because the influence of the Sri Lankan government. This is disgraceful that a foreign government has influence over right Canadian citizen's to organize and protest in North America.
If I get more information, I will pass it on. Please circulate information.
I won't repeat my comments from the other thread but I certainly wish those at the rallies (or trying to attend them) well.
Troy I am curious about your interest in the subject; I'm not a Tamil myself, just a supporter, how about you? That is if you don't mind sharing your reasons for following this subject (its not really a popular one afterall).
News about the Rally to be held in Washington
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/10181420.htm
Information about the Rally in Geneva:
http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-38109320090220
Watch the rally live on another website:
http://eurotvlive.com/
Video streaming on the front page.
Here's some background to the protest in Washington today:
Over 3,000 Expected at Tamils Against Genocide Rally, Students Fast More than Two Weeks as Show of Support
Tamils head to D.C. to press for peace in Sri Lanka
Oops, cross-posted with troy doing the same thing! I couldn't find any article about the buses being turned back though troy, any news on that?
Thanks for sharing, and welcome to babble troy! I agree about the difficulties in getting the word out, the MSM's coverage of Sri Lanka (or lack thereof) is abysmal. Good luck spreading the word, I do my part here in rural Nova Scotia but let me tell you theres a lot of work to be done here! Its nice to see we have two bonafide Tamils here now, I hope you stick around and get a chance to participate in babble's discussions, thirusuj has done a good job already (in this thread for example) at getting the word out.
Hey troy have you heard of this:
Sri Lankans in the US engage in an anti-LTTE campaign today.
It would appear they are either trying to misrepresent the rally we've been discussing or they are referring to a counter-protest which I have not found any info about anywhere else... although perhaps I don't know all the best places to look!
Yes. I heard about that. They are trying to misrepresent our message. The government of Sri Lanka is always behind these problems. They have people in the international community who cause these problems. Usually the brains behind these operations in Canada is Lankan Counsel General in Toronto Bandulla Jayasekara and the Sri Lankan Embassies.
Today, they know that the Tamil people are all going to be there at Washington. Therefore, they are trying to reduce the amount of people who can attend the rally by making sure buses don't pass the US border to protest infront of the White house.
Unrelated to today's rallies here is a link to (and excerpt from) a Gwynne Dyer piece about about the conflict in Sri Lanka that came out today; I don't know if this counts as the mainstream media but I was reasonably pleased with its conclusion, considering the source (not news to anyone who's informed about the subject, but thats not many people!):
Sri Lanka seems set to waste chance of peace - Gwynne Dyer
Its funny that these times of "peace" would present the Sinhalese regime a chance to provide equality and autonomy to the Tamils, since that is what the LTTE is fighting for! You could also say that, with military victory seemingly in hand, there has never been a time when there was less pressure on the Sinhalese state to provide these things for their Tamil citizens.
Turning people away from demonstrations is awful and bad enough (though it happens a lot here in North America) but to think that people in Sri Lanka (who have a hard enough time getting access to free media as it is) would be presented with news of these rallies and tricked into thinking that the rallies are in support of the Sinhalese regime... disgusting! I doubt many people would be taken in by it though, afterall who demonstrates in favor of the genocide of their own people? I suppose this is for their Sinhala-supporter audience.
Sri Lankan Defence Minister, Gotabhaya Rajapaksa Said to his troops "Make the Tamil Women as the feast of our army, while letting the men's blood drip into a red sea".
I can't believe a Sri Lankan Defence Minister (Gotabhaya Rajapaksa) who is also a US Citizen would have the guts to say this. Shame!
I translated what he said from Tamil News EuroTv
Disgusting, I wish you could translate the whole article though, but I know thats a lot to ask... I'm never going to be able to learn that language!
ETA: might as well remove the instructions...
Price of Sri Lanka's army expansion is paid in grief
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-srilanka-toll22-2009...
Flag's terrorism links under question
http://www.tamilcanadian.com/page.php?cat=64&id=5396
Police called after Sri Lankan flag set on fire after rally
http://excal.on.ca/cms2//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6801&Itemid=2
Circle of Violence - Sri Lanka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiPv5x3Z7Ok
A Desperate War - Sri Lanka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKrCQ3yH5z8&feature=channel
All,
We are trying to get the attention of CNN to go to Sri Lanka and report or start digging the media restrictions. Please sign the petition so we can get the truth out of Sri Lanka......We are targeting Anderson Cooper....
Free our Press
http://www.freeourpress.org/
Gwynne Dyer:
Sri Lanka After the War
The greatest mistakes are made on the morrow of the greatest
victories. Sri Lanka is now approaching a decisive victory in its 26-year
war against Tamil separatism, and it is about to make a very big mistake.
"While separatist terrorism must be eradicated," wrote Lasantha
Wickrematunge, editor of the Sunday Leader, "it is important to address the
root causes of terrorism, and urge government to view Sri Lanka's ethnic
strife in the context of history and not through the telescope of
terrorism. We have agitated against state terrorism in the so-called war
against terror, and made no secret of our horror that Sri Lanka is the only
country in the world routinely to bomb its own citizens."
Wickrematunge left that on his computer, to be published if he was
murdered, which he duly was last month. He knew it was going to happen, and
he believed that he knew who would be responsible: the government. Which is
why he addressed President Mahinda Rajapaksa directly in his post-mortem
article.
. . .
"In the wake of my death," Wickrematunge wrote, "I know you
(President Rajapaksa) will make all the usual sanctimonious noises...but
like all the inquiries you have ordered in the past, nothing will come of
this one. For truth be told, we both know who will be behind my death, but
dare not call his name. [Almost certainly Defence Secretary Gotabaya
Rajapaksa, the president's brother.] Not just my life but yours too depends
on it."
Like the United States under President Bush, Sri Lanka has ceased
to respect the law in its fight against "terrorism". Since the Tamil
minority began fighting for a separate state in 1983, over 70,000 people
have been killed in Sri Lanka, the majority of them civilians -- and since
President Rajapaksa took power in 2004 fourteen journalists have been
murdered by unknown assailants.
Rajapaksa is now on the brink of destroying the rebel army, the
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam ("Tamil Tigers"). Even one year ago they
still controlled some 15,000 sq. km (6,000 sq. mi) in the north and
north-east of the island, where they maintained all the institutions of a
sovereign state. But the relentless offensive of the Sri Lankan army has
now reduced them to only a couple of hundred square kilometres (less than a
hundred square miles) of territory.
Within a week or two, that will be gone too, and what remains of
the Tamil Tigers will no longer control a pseudo-state. Good riddance, for
they were brutal extremists who killed their own Tamil people, in order to
enforce unquestioning obedience, just as readily as their suicide bombers
killed the majority Sinhalese population. But that doesn't mean that Sri
Lanka can just go back to the kind of country it was before the fighting
began in 1983. The Tamils had a reason to revolt.
Tamil-speaking Hindus have been part of Sri Lanka's complex ethnic
and religious mosaic for centuries, but they are only 12 percent of the
population. They got along well enough with the Sinhalese-speaking,
Buddhist majority when the island was first united under British imperial
rule in the early 19th century, but after that the relationship went
rapidly downhill.
The British, in typical divide-and-rule style, favoured the Tamil
minority in education and in civil service jobs. Sinhalese resentment grew
rapidly, and the first Sinhalese-Tamil riots were in 1939. As in the
subsequent bouts of killing, most of the victims were Tamils.
Once independence arrived in 1948, the Sinhalese used their
majority to pass laws giving members of their own community preference for
university entrance and government jobs, and Sinhala was declared the sole
national language. As Sinhalese and Tamil ethnic nationalism grew more
extreme, some of the riots in the 1960s and 1970s verged on anti-Tamil
pogroms.
By the late 1970s the process of setting up a shadow Tamil state in
the north and north-east had begun. Open war broke out in 1983, with the
Tamil Tigers rapidly eliminating the rival Tamil separatist groups and
establishing totalitarian control over the population under their rule.
Twenty-six years later, the Tamil Tigers' army has finally been
crushed, and the Sri Lankan state (in practice, the Sinhalese state) is
triumphant. But the 12 percent of the population who are Tamils will still
not accept unequal status, and they are not going away.
This is the time when a peace that gives the Tamils equal rights
and autonomous local governments in the areas where they are a majority
could secure the country's future, but it is most unlikely to happen.
Sinhalese nationalism is as intolerant as ever, and now it is
triumphalist to boot. Moreover, the rapid growth of a "national security
state" under President Rajapakse has undermined democracy and largely
silenced criticism of government policies. The forecast, therefore, is for
a reversion to guerilla war in the north, and continuing campaigns of
murder by both the government and Tamil extremists in the rest of the
country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7920260.stm
AJ,
Nice article, but I would argue with some of his points