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I don't think any of the candidates is that boring. In fact if you follow the debates some have exhibited wit, charm, frustration, beligerance, and strength.
The reason this race is being considered a snooze fest is because of many factors
a) the media loves to beat on the NDP and this is just another kick in the ribs chance for them.
b) NDP supporters are conditoned to expect failure. This is a very depressing reality and is a psychological condition that destroys our appeal to young voters.
c) The membership has been so beaten into submission by those please give us money mailouts from central party office that they are on auto ignore. This condition may be beyond cure.
d) Riding associations have been starved out of their cash and are therefore not inspired to fundraise to any level that could translate into success.
e) Central party and the establishment have turned the NDP into a social club and have no real interest in changing things for the better. Instead they want a political science head quarters where they can complain about the man and wear t shirts and blue jeans and go outside for coffee and smokes all day instead of working.
f) the unions have not done their part to bring the ndp to their membership. Too bad because at the end of this economic turmoil they are gonna need the NDP bigtime.
ALL in all, politics is rarely glamourous or even exciting and I believe people are blaming the wrong parties (the candidates) when they should be blaming the party itself.
Really? You honestly think they're duller than Dalton McGuinty, Dwight Duncan, Gerard Kennedy, Joe Cordiano, Anna Marie Castrilli, John Gerretson, and Greg Kells? It was like a reality TV show aimed at finding the dullest candidate... and McGuinty won.
A timely quote scarboroughnative and very well said I think.
Vacuous, maybe, but I wouldn't exactly call Gerard Kennedy in 1996 "dull"--indeed, his relative un-dullness probably wound up defeating him in the end. (Which backhandedly vindicates your point, anyway.)
This post is so good, it needed a 3peat.
A smart person in the NDP would be wise to read those comments. Clearly the current ONDP movers and shakers better move on all these points before it is too late, if it is not already.
If there is someone with a vision in the NDP.... who hangs out on Babble and is in a position to do so.....or will be soon.....
finding a cure to the above is a good place to start.
The rest of this post may well be true, but I have to take issue with this:
About a year ago, I went to church (it happens) for the baptisim of a friend's child. At some point in the service, the church asked for money. They passed around baskets, and everyone dutifully donated. No one (except me) complained.
Apparently, the church does this every single week!
And nobody complains. It's just how the church earns enough money to operate.
Oh, that NDP supporters could understand this...
I met with a Minister about 2 weeks ago. He has a lifetime history over 50 years with the NDP starting in Sask. No other party in his life has had his support. But in that meeting, this very progressive and active minister, said he'd had enough of the NDP and was telling all those around him, that it was over. He supported the NDP for things he believes in, not to be continually harrassed for money at all hours, and with endless automated messages. He was told by the NDP to expect more automated messages and more solicitations not less.
This minister is a socialist like no other I have ever met. He will remain a socialist, but he will not be with the NDP any longer even though he had just updated his membership. I had never seen this minister so upset and visibly frustrated with his party
Then his other minister friend who also once ran for the NDP in Sask also bailed out on the party for the same reasons. They didn't join to be targeted for solicitation over and over and over. They want to help people and the ONDP isn't connecting with them for anything other then a cheque.
Obviously this frustration isn't connecting with the NDP elite.
Clearly these ONDP supporters (now former), don't understand as Mr. Lou Arab states.
Does it matter that the ONDP doesn't understand them either?
The problem isn't only the fundraising appeals.
The problem is that members are not engaged by the party in ways other than fundraising appeals.
Of course, most forms of engagement take money so....
But of course, most forms of making money take engagement...so clearly we have a chicken/egg conundrum here...
Really? You honestly think they're duller than Dalton McGuinty, Dwight Duncan, Gerard Kennedy, Joe Cordiano, Anna Marie Castrilli, John Gerretson, and Greg Kells? It was like a reality TV show aimed at finding the dullest candidate... and McGuinty won.
True, but at least the race McGuinty won was exciting. This one is really, really boring. If I wasn't slightly more than a casual observer I wouldn't even know it was happening.
yes and no. Engagement means responding to emails, phone calls, allowing democracy to happen within the party. The ONT NDP has no problems phoning me for money, but beyond that, they are not interested in anything I might have to say in the area of my expertise - education. Reaching out has to be beyond money.
______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!
"True, but at least the race McGuinty won was exciting."
The race that Dion won was also very exciting - doesn't mean that it was good for the Liberal Party.
I think many NDP supporters do realize this truth . The problem is that like any other consumer, members need to feel they are getting value for their dollar. This encourages them to continue to contribute. The party has to find a way to make people feel valued for giving their contribution.
For that matter, given the uncertainty as to who, exactly, is the frontrunner, who's to say *this* race will necessarily be "unexciting" in the end?
Now, if you truly want an unexciting Liberal race, there was Paul Martin vs Sheila Copps...
To me, the candidates are all pretty evenly matched. While I do have a personal preference, I'd still quite happily get behind any of the four candidates with absolutely no reservations. None of them is a dealbreaker for me; none of them is even an "I'll hold my nose and reluctantly vote for them if only because they're not Dalton McGuinty".
That said, while I like all four candidates and have all four of them in my "politicians I support" list on Facebook, one of the four candidates -- or, admittedly, more likely his campaign staff -- actually reached out to me personally by individually friending me. We've never actually met each other, and I'm sure he friended the majority of the people who listed themselves as supporters of his whether he actually knows them personally or not, so I know it doesn't make me special at all -- but it was still a nice little gesture that, to me, had a nice "reaching out to engage the supporters more closely" touch to it and gave me a reason to view his candidacy more positively.
That candidate, for what it's worth, is Michael Prue.
That personal touch appears to be paying dividends, Asterix. Prue's website announced today that Howard Pawley has endorsed his leadership bid.
Congratulations. But, did you really gain his support by means of a Facebook Friend request?
Just oodles of charm and the best darned ideas around!
can you let the campaigns know where they can reach obelix?
What would it cost to have a regional conference call every two weeks between the regional reps and the 15 or so riding presidents in their region?
Even the Governor-General has a forum for internet input. Does the ONDP leader?
Can't find anything on their website. Do you have a link?
I seem to have problems tracing it on the website as well--anyway, it's in the hard copy version. (I might try and track it down, if nobody else does.)
Definitely the case early on (esp. when they had Kinsella on the payroll); but lately it's developed into more of a tributary of the Spacing universe.
Anyway, I can't find it on-line (maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I don't know), but it's on Page 6 of the February 26 dead tree edition. A marginal "NDP Leadership Convention Primer" by Chris Bilton, which gives Horwath even odds, Bisson 2:1 odds, Prue 4:1 odds, and Tabuns 10:1 odds. (And doesn't really go deeply in explaining why, i.e. with Tabuns it lists his "pros" as "Anti-smoking activist, former executive director of Greenpeace", and under "cons", "Lost municipal election due to aleged phantom candidate, Larry Tabin". That's it.)
At worst, I might have flipped the Tabuns and Prue odds around--maybe they know something we don't. (Though I can see how, with his Red Tory-friendly cast, a Prue might have a bigger "sleeper cell" of Middle Ontario support than Tabuns. And I think I might have been the first in this forum to entertain the possibility that Tabuns and Prue could both wind up in the back of the pack.)
interesting angle.........so what happens in a bisson/horwath showdown?
any thoughts?